To call or not to call the 9

[Jude Rosenstock]

The "change" has already happened; it is no longer about "people trying" see post #41,the question is what do we do now that the change is here?

I think you are under-estimating the significance of this change. It would be as dramatic as baseball going to 4 strikes. 9ball has been tinkered with. Break rules, rack rules and jump rules are fine-tunings. Texas Express was its last overhaul and this direction would be more significant than Texas Express.

All I'm saying is, if you're going to start building a different rule-set, just create a new game! Did we run out of names or something? If you start making 9ball call-shot, it's not 9ball anymore. It's that simple.

 

[PGHteacher]

I think you are under-estimating the significance of this change. It would be as dramatic as baseball going to 4 strikes. 9ball has been tinkered with. Break rules, rack rules and jump rules are fine-tunings. Texas Express was its last overhaul and this direction would be more significant than Texas Express.

All I'm saying is, if you're going to start building a different rule-set, just create a new game! Did we run out of names or something? If you start making 9ball call-shot, it's not 9ball anymore. It's that simple.

I suggest that you watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSFlXCCQYug

Look at the whole thread you will get a better idea of what it is about; although there have been people that have put forth the suggestion that 9ball be made a call shot game that is not the question, the question is should the 9ball be called.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I suggest that you watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSFlXCCQYug

Look at the whole thread you will get a better idea of what it is about; although there have been people that have put forth the suggestion that 9ball be made a call shot game that is not the question, the question is should the 9ball be called.

I have no idea why you wanted me to watch that video.

I know what the point of this thread is. I know the discussion is about the 9ball only. I am saying NONE should be called. I think it's a direction that takes us to a shitty place.

 

[Paul Schofield]

why do you think 10 ball is so popular today, 10 ball takes SO much luck out of the game.

Ten-Ball is popular? Ten-Ball is pool's hospice care.

You all speak as though luck is a dirty word. Just the right amount of luck makes for an exciting sport.

Call nothing!!!!

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Ten-Ball is popular? Ten-Ball is pool's hospice care.

You all speak as though luck is a dirty word. Just the right amount of luck makes for an exciting sport.

Call nothing!!!!

The only game that truly attacks the luck factor is 14.1 and out of respect for my own love for 14.1, I will not discuss its popularity.

 

[CreeDo]

There are shots in 9ball that have multi-way value. This isn't just "the luck factor". There are many players that have built their games around the possibility of something else happening other than the main intent. By utilizing call-shot, even on a single ball, you are opening Pandora's box and allowing for the possibility of a complete overhaul. If you want to have that, fine. But don't think for one second that suddenly the game is going to look better because of it.

Yeah but, honestly, at a high level how often are you seeing pros slop anything? And when they do, is it a carefully crafted 2-3 way shot? Or is it more like "I kicked and got lucky" or "I butchered my shot and it went around 3 rails and in another hole"?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Yeah but, honestly, at a high level how often are you seeing pros slop anything? And when they do, is it a carefully crafted 2-3 way shot? Or is it more like "I kicked and got lucky" or "I butchered my shot and it went around 3 rails and in another hole"?

I don't understand your question nor your point. What is the problem with getting lucky??? It happens all the time. In fact, some of the most remembered games are ones involving luck.

My point, and I really think you're not getting it, I've already seen the direction call-shot has gone. It starts with calling the last ball. Then it develops into calling all balls. Then we're passing the table back on missed shots. And then, only called shots are rewarded and any two-way shot is useless.

 

[CreeDo]

I guess I think of a two way as "I can try for a tough shot and get safe if I miss" rather than "I can play to make 2 or 3 balls in different holes in a single shot". That kind of two way certainly exists and I guess there's some skill in recognizing the opportunities and capitalizing on them.

But my point was, most 9 ball games at pro level don't seem to rely on such creativity. I've seen that sort of shot less than a half dozen times in tournament footage. Usually the players just plod along running one ball after the next until they either get out, miss, or recognize they're hopelessly out of line and decide to play safe.

You could switch it to call shot and imo the vast majority of games played would look exactly the same as before.

If you wanna say the spirit of the game changes and it'd be more dull and less creative, I can't argue with that. A little luck does add a certain spice to any game.

 

[CharlesUFarley]

Im in favor of taking as much luck out of all games as possible. Lately. when I play in my regular scotch doubles game, the nine doesnt count on the break and it always spots after the break to lessen the chance of it landing in front of a hole for an easy combo. I love these rules.

 

[Bohemian]

IMHO... to take the luck out of the game and make it truly a skill game as it should be... lose spots & handicaps and play straight up even... AND I would make it call ball & pocket, number of rails and combos on all balls; and if the nine drops on the snap in foot pockets it should get spotted...
Further, Fouls, scratches, etc., should be in the kitchen...
In addition, a minimum of 4 balls besides the cue ball should hit a rail and go north of the side pockets...
Additionally, I think the breaks should all be from the box...
Moreover, a magic rack, delta elite or other rack used within the last 2 years in professional competition should be the minimum requirement for racks... lets lose the .50 cent plastic & wooden triangles that are the bane of so many pool halls & pubs...
Lastly, I would make it alternating breaks AND 3 consecutive fouls loss of game...

IMHO making these changes would pretty much take all the luck out of the game...

 

[pt109]

IMHO... to take the luck out of the game and make it truly a skill game as it should be... lose spots & handicaps and play straight up even... AND I would make it call ball & pocket, number of rails and combos on all balls; and if the nine drops on the snap in foot pockets it should get spotted...
Further, Fouls, scratches, etc., should be in the kitchen...
In addition, a minimum of 4 balls besides the cue ball should hit a rail and go north of the side pockets...
Additionally, I think the breaks should all be from the box...
Moreover, a magic rack, delta elite or other rack used within the last 2 years in professional competition should be the minimum requirement for racks... lets lose the .50 cent plastic & wooden triangles that are the bane of so many pool halls & pubs...
Lastly, I would make it alternating breaks AND 3 consecutive fouls loss of game...

IMHO making these changes would pretty much take all the luck out of the game...

This reminds me of why I wouldn't play 8-ball in my prime....every bar
had a bunch of rules that I didn't like.

A vain attempt to eliminate luck is also taking a lot of skill with it.
It's called 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'....imo
https://www.google.com/url?url=http...hwater&usg=AFQjCNEtMAPTGbtmbN7oVjrmG1loicdGWA

 

[td873]

In virtually everything with a human involved, there is a degree of uncertainty. Call it your good luck, or your opponent's good luck, vice versa, whatever, it still exists. Lucky things happen all the time in professional games - football, baseball, soccer, etc etc. 9-ball is the same. Folks that are sore about the rules will be sore about something else even if the rules are changes.

Folks fail to recognize the 3 ball that they shanked. Instead, they complain about the 9-ball that cheesed in a different corner pocket off the points. It wasn't the bad shape that they gave up ball in hand, but the bank that went 2-rails instead of one. It wasn't the bad jump shot that they shouldn't have shot, but the carom that dropped. Sure, sometimes your opponent runs out from the break and cheeses the 9. You don't deserve to win that game either.

In the end, the rules are fair for both players. Some days you are the windshield. Some days you are the bug. Suck it up, play the game and stop complaining.

-td

 

[pt109]

In virtually everything with a human involved, there is a degree of uncertainty. Call it your good luck, or your opponent's good luck, vice versa, whatever, it still exists. Lucky things happen all the time in professional games - football, baseball, soccer, etc etc. 9-ball is the same. Folks that are sore about the rules will be sore about something else even if the rules are changes.

Folks fail to recognize the 3 ball that they shanked. Instead, they complain about the 9-ball that cheesed in a different corner pocket off the points. It wasn't the bad shape that they gave up ball in hand, but the bank that went 2-rails instead of one. It wasn't the bad jump shot that they shouldn't have shot, but the carom that dropped. Sure, sometimes your opponent runs out from the break and cheeses the 9. You don't deserve to win that game either.

In the end, the rules are fair for both players. Some days you are the windshield. Some days you are the bug. Suck it up, play the game and stop complaining.

-td

I like this post.^

Even at chess there can be luck....
..I made a move once for a particular reason...20 moves later, it turned
out to be a move that a grand-master would have made...
....I'm not that good.

A lot of complaining that I've seen is really a form of vanity....
...an excuse for losing.

The light at the end of the tunnel?
The better you get, the less luck there is....
....work on your game

 

[Bohemian]

In virtually everything with a human involved, there is a degree of uncertainty. Call it your good luck, or your opponent's good luck, vice versa, whatever, it still exists. Lucky things happen all the time in professional games - football, baseball, soccer, etc etc. 9-ball is the same. Folks that are sore about the rules will be sore about something else even if the rules are changes.

Folks fail to recognize the 3 ball that they shanked. Instead, they complain about the 9-ball that cheesed in a different corner pocket off the points. It wasn't the bad shape that they gave up ball in hand, but the bank that went 2-rails instead of one. It wasn't the bad jump shot that they shouldn't have shot, but the carom that dropped. Sure, sometimes your opponent runs out from the break and cheeses the 9. You don't deserve to win that game either.

In the end, the rules are fair for both players. Some days you are the windshield. Some days you are the bug. Suck it up, play the game and stop complaining.

-td

For the record I am not complaining...

But the fact is no billiards game has more LUCK built into it than 9-ball...
Which is why the the top level pros are all playing with most of the rules I suggested to take a majority of the luck out of the game...

Most of the 9-ball pro players that have won or placed in US Opens are on record as stating 9-ball has too much luck factored in...

The Legendary Grady "The Professor" Mathews once stated its absolutely shameful that 9 ball is over 60% luck...

Other greats such as Joe Tucker have stated many of the 9-ball rules are making fools out of us all and Joe was a pioneer in encouraging 10 ball because it takes much of the luck out of the game... and requires more actual skill to pull off consistent wins...

AND its caught on... 10-ball is rapidly becoming... the defacto game of skill in billiards (2nd to one pocket) and will likely surpass 9-ball in the foreseeable future as the televised billiard game of choice by ESPN, etc...

 

[pt109]

For the record I am not complaining...

But the fact is no billiards game has more LUCK built into it than 9-ball...
Which is why the the top level pros are all playing with most of the rules I suggested to take a majority of the luck out of the game...

Most of the 9-ball pro players that have won or placed in US Opens are on record as stating 9-ball has too much luck factored in...

The Legendary Grady "The Professor" Mathews once stated its absolutely shameful that 9 ball is over 60% luck...

Other greats such as Joe Tucker have stated many of the 9-ball rules are making fools out of us all and Joe was a pioneer in encouraging 10 ball because it takes much of the luck out of the game... and requires more actual skill to pull off consistent wins...

AND its caught on... 10-ball is rapidly becoming... the defacto game of skill in billiards (2nd to one pocket) and will likely surpass 9-ball in the foreseeable future as the televised billiard game of choice by ESPN, etc...

The 10-ball tournament that Alex won in Tunica was Texas Express.
It was a good tournament.
9-ball is just simply a 'short game'....

...please don't try to change it...just play another game.

In the 'action days'...9-ball got very little of the 'big action'.....
..it was more of a 'breaking the ice' game till the big dough was bet
at one-pocket.

 

[PGHteacher]

The 10-ball tournament that Alex won in Tunica was Texas Express.
It was a good tournament.
9-ball is just simply a 'short game'....

...please don't try to change it...just play another game.

In the 'action days'...9-ball got very little of the 'big action'.....
..it was more of a 'breaking the ice' game till the big dough was bet
at one-pocket.

The only constant in any game or sport as far as the rules and how it is played are concerned will be change. Those who fight it will be looked upon by history as fools, fuddy-duddies, the lower level of intelligence group or the victims of "future shock". Change is an inevitability.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

The only constant in any game or sport as far as the rules and how it is played are concerned will be change. Those who fight it will be looked upon by history as fools, fuddy-duddies, the lower level of intelligence group or the victims of "future shock". Change is an inevitability.

This is an asinine post. So, you propose a change. If anyone doesn't agree with your proposal, they're fuddy-duddies, stupid and against all change. It was nice talking to you. I'm out.

 

[Nostroke]

one thing you cant do for sure is implement the rule and then have a guy who has been shooting the 9 in for forty years without calling it lose the game not calling an obvious straight in 9- That is so ridiculous. The purpose of the rule is to avoid lucking it in. It should NOT BE A MEMORY TEST!!!!

In a reffed match the ref can certainly determine if the ball went in the intended pocket 99.99999999999999999% of the time. If he cant well the shooter loses. No calling obvious shots for no f'n reason. It's ridiculous and makes the game look like a JOKE!!!!!!!!!(when someone forgets)

 

[PGHteacher]

This is an asinine post. So, you propose a change. If anyone doesn't agree with your proposal, they're fuddy-duddies, stupid and against all change. It was nice talking to you. I'm out.

I didn't propose a change it is here already there are many top tournaments that do this; I just asked for opinions; as for those that don't agree that's fine, but there will always be change that's just a fact of life, no one can argue that an so you say your out of here; okay but that's a little silly IMHO.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I didn't propose a change it is here already there are many top tournaments that do this; I just asked for opinions; as for those that don't agree that's fine, but there will always be change that's just a fact of life, no one can argue that an so you say your out of here; okay but that's a little silly IMHO.

I'm not going to bother with a thread that degrades itself to name-calling. I know. shocking. :|