To call or not to call the 9

[Brozif]

I voted 'strongly opposed'
...and for me that includes 10-ball.
The 10-ball tourney that Alex won in Tunica was Texas express rules...
...I never saw any ridiculous matches.
And 3-cushion and snooker remain quite skillful without calling anything.

...and you can only call ONE ball on any shot.

I don't expect to see a lot of lucky shots in a pro event. They happen very rarely. I would just like to not see someone be rewarded for being lucky.

Call ball-call pocket for every shot would be my choice.

Yeah, RRfireblade corrected me on that one. I was just mistaken at what I thought I had seen on TV.

 

[pt109]

I don't expect to see a lot of lucky shots in a pro event. They happen very rarely. I would just like to not see someone be rewarded for being lucky.

Call ball-call pocket for every shot would be my choice.

Yeah, RRfireblade corrected me on that one. I was just mistaken at what I thought I had seen on TV.

Alex lucked a 6-ball in that Tunica tournament...but he FIRED at it.
...there was no safe kick so he made a skillful decision.
Mike Sigel was known to do this at 9-ball in his prime.
I remember Tony Ellin making the 9-ball early 3 times in one match...
...he made the ball he intended and played the 9-ball as a secondary option.
Those were three SKILLFUL shots.

9-ball is a 'short game' and should be fast and dangerous.

...we can argue about this all day, 'cause I like to see your avatar.

regards
pt

 

[FreeShot]

I voted mildly opposed because I think it's a solution for a non-existent problem and I don't like unnecessary rules.

I think there's no problem to solve because (1) slop is a good thing (at least psychologically) for lower-skilled players and (2) slop isn't really a factor for higher-skilled players.

9 Ball isn't supposed to be played one game at a time - luck won't be a big factor over a several-game set. Keep it simple.

pj <- like 10 Ball though...
chgo

I voted mildly opposed for the exact same reasons listed above.

 

[Donny Lutz]

All call.

I don't expect to see a lot of lucky shots in a pro event. They happen very rarely. I would just like to not see someone be rewarded for being lucky.

Call ball-call pocket for every shot would be my choice.

Yeah, RRfireblade corrected me on that one. I was just mistaken at what I thought I had seen on TV.

The original post did not offer a choice of "call all balls", it merely asked about the 9-ball.

I agree with Brozif and Buddy Hall. Nine-ball should be call every shot.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor

 

[Maniac]

I voted "strongly in favor of calling the 9-ball". I don't have enough fingers and toes on my body to count the times I've seen a bank shot go one extra rail (sometimes two extra rails) and go into an unintended pocket for a win.

IMO, a game should never be won on a single stroke of luck. I also do not believe a game should be won on the break shot, but that's a whole 'nother argument that's been covered many times on this forum.

I don't care so much about a ball being lucked-in in any game be it 8-ball, 9-ball, etc., but just NOT the game-winning ball. It should have to be called.

These are just my opinions, and I respect anyone who has a different viewpoint. It really doesn't matter that much to me as long as everyone is playing by the same rules. But if I had the power to change the rules.......

Maniac

 

[PGHteacher]

I voted "strongly in favor of calling the 9-ball". I don't have enough fingers and toes on my body to count the times I've seen a bank shot go one extra rail (sometimes two extra rails) and go into an unintended pocket for a win.

IMO, a game should never be won on a single stroke of luck. I also do not believe a game should be won on the break shot, but that's a whole 'nother argument that's been covered many times on this forum.

I don't care so much about a ball being lucked-in in any game be it 8-ball, 9-ball, etc., but just NOT the game-winning ball. It should have to be called.

These are just my opinions, and I respect anyone who has a different viewpoint. It really doesn't matter that much to me as long as everyone is playing by the same rules. But if I had the power to change the rules.......

Maniac

We think (so far) EXACTLY alike green reps for you man, green reps for you.

 

[TSW]

I agree, however you will probably never get most current 9 ball players to agree with calling any and all safety shots. This would take away the so-called two-way-shot, which is a "luck" shot any way you look at it. The "if I miss you won't have a shot" is considered an equalizer by many, many people. That "IF" is what makes it a lucky shot. You should play well enough to call a shot to make it and if you miss you should pay the penalty. If you don't play well enough to make it you should call the safety and make your opponent shoot. This will make the game harder, however, so it'll never happen.

I disagree. The two-way shot is part of the creativity and strategy of 9-ball.

Instead of calling it a lucky shot, I'd call it a controlled risk. You are shooting a difficult pot with the knowledge that you have a potential safety built in. Being able to see that sort of shot and execute it is part of the beauty of the game.

If you would eliminate two-way shots as "luck," why stop there? Players often get lucky on their position routes, such as getting on the short side by mistake, overshooting or undershooting position but still having a shot, bumping a ball but staying in line anyway, etc. Why not make the shooter call his position route, and make him give up the table if he doesn't execute it?

 

[Pushout]

I disagree. The two-way shot is part of the creativity and strategy of 9-ball.

Instead of calling it a lucky shot, I'd call it a controlled risk. You are shooting a difficult pot with the knowledge that you have a potential safety built in. Being able to see that sort of shot and execute it is part of the beauty of the game.

If you would eliminate two-way shots as "luck," why stop there? Players often get lucky on their position routes, such as getting on the short side by mistake, overshooting or undershooting position but still having a shot, bumping a ball but staying in line anyway, etc. Why not make the shooter call his position route, and make him give up the table if he doesn't execute it?

You can disagree all you like, it doesn't change anything and I expected it.
Did you learn to play 9 ball this way? I didn't. I don't consider it any part of the beauty of the game. Yes, luck is a part of all pool games to some extent but the two-way shot should not be a part of it.

 

[PGHteacher]

I disagree. The two-way shot is part of the creativity and strategy of 9-ball.

Instead of calling it a lucky shot, I'd call it a controlled risk. You are shooting a difficult pot with the knowledge that you have a potential safety built in. Being able to see that sort of shot and execute it is part of the beauty of the game.

If you would eliminate two-way shots as "luck," why stop there? Players often get lucky on their position routes, such as getting on the short side by mistake, overshooting or undershooting position but still having a shot, bumping a ball but staying in line anyway, etc. Why not make the shooter call his position route, and make him give up the table if he doesn't execute it?

I agree completly

 

[Brozif]

Alex lucked a 6-ball in that Tunica tournament...but he FIRED at it.
...there was no safe kick so he made a skillful decision.
Mike Sigel was known to do this at 9-ball in his prime.
I remember Tony Ellin making the 9-ball early 3 times in one match...
...he made the ball he intended and played the 9-ball as a secondary option.
Those were three SKILLFUL shots.

9-ball is a 'short game' and should be fast and dangerous.

...we can argue about this all day, 'cause I like to see your avatar.

regards
pt

Okay, I'll continue so that you can look at my avatar!! :thumbup:

I'm not saying that making the 9-ball early is not a skill. I'm just saying "call it".

Kicking at a ball demands some skill. Kicking at a ball, and playing safe after contact, takes a whole lot of Efren Reyes type skill.

If I play safe on you and all you have is a difficult hit, that took skill on my part. If you kick at it at a thousand miles an hour and hit it, that takes skill as well, but pocketing something after that is just getting lucky and I don't think you should be rewarded for that.

That's all I'm saying, LUCK shouldn't be rewarded.

Can't we all just get along?:thumbup:

Now quit staring at my avatar and refute!

 

[bdorman]

Call the nine except on the break. Slopped nine-ball is spotted.

If you call the nine and scratch you lose the rack.

 

[chevybob20]

I don't feel that nine ball rules need changing. If players what to play call shot then play ten ball.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I think all games of pool should be call ball-call pocket! This is a game of precision and when played by people of moderate to high skill, slopping in a ball should not be a factor.

IMO, the only exception would be in the amateur leagues like APA. I believe that if you are a 1,2, or 3, you don't have to call your ball or pocket. If you luck a ball in, that's fine. Everyone 4 and up, sorry about your luck, but you must call it.

Then again, I think you should call ANY safety shot as well, and if you accidentally hook your opponent, it is his choice whether to shoot or make you shoot again.

I agree with calling all pockets and the option to make your opponent shoot again on any miss...unless you call "safety".

 

[BobTfromIL]

Our league plays "call nine" just the way it is and we don't
get too many complaints. Our league is not associated with BCAPL, APA etc.

 

[pt109]

I agree with calling all pockets and the option to make your opponent shoot again on any miss...unless you call "safety".

Calling every shot would make the game pedestrian, CJ....you're throwing
the baby out with the bath water.....

...I've seen players of your caliber play a ball in where they're 5-1 dog
to make it, but they get a hook if they miss and position if they make it...
..and the 9-ball can drop also.
How about a bank that you're a slight underdog on combined with a carom
on the 9-ball that you are also an underdog at...but the two chances combined make you a favorite?

Then you have 3-cushion, where any world class player favors long on a
a 3-railer 'cause you get it on 5 rails if you miss.
And the 'shot-to-nothing' at snooker is played by all great players.

At a high level, I would think there have been FAR more games won by clever
multiple-choice shots than by flukes.

..but I think I'll go back to arguing with Brozif...that avatar makes me
swoon..:love2:

regards
pt..<..great to have CJ on AZ

 

[DelaWho???]

If you are going to ride the 9 early you should call it if it's going to be called at all.

As long as both players agree to the rules in use it doesn't really matter.

 

[Rich R.]

Why do players always want to change rules?

All games have some ellement of luck involved. Some games are meant to have a little more luck involved than others and 9-ball is one of those games. I believe 9-ball should be played without calling any shots.

If you want a call your shot game, play 10-ball or, better yet, play 14-1.

 

[SKILLZELITE]

Call them all ..

I personally think all balls should be called in rotation games,, It would do away with luck, and base it strictly on skill.

If you want to play a game where luck is the main element, play poker, or slots..

 

[Slh]

I'm against calling the shots in 9 ball except for the winning ball. This is the reason why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSFlXCCQYug
at 4:08. Terrible ending.

 

[PGHteacher]

I don't feel that nine ball rules need changing. If players what to play call shot then play ten ball.

Why do players always want to change rules?

All games have some ellement of luck involved. Some games are meant to have a little more luck involved than others and 9-ball is one of those games. I believe 9-ball should be played without calling any shots.

If you want a call your shot game, play 10-ball or, better yet, play 14-1.

I wish people wouldn't want to play 8ball & 9ball all the time. If I had my pick we would just play 14.1 and if we didn't have time for that just play a few games of 1-Pocket and if we are a group with only 1 table we play king of the hill 10ball, this is "living in a dream world"; people want to play 9ball it's that simple, people want to see 9ball on TV that is just an unfortunate reality in the pool world

Change is the only true constant in any sport or game; it took chess well over a thousand years before everyone said "ok this is the way it is most fairly played" pool is in its infancy compared to chess but lets take say football; the rules have changed because the people involved in the sport have deemed it necessary for 1 reason or another fairness, safety etc...

There will always be those "old timers", "the old way was better" and "what about tradition?" people. There are plenty of top level tournaments where call the 9 has been the rule, so to say "change" is referring to something pre-facto that is post-facto, (the "change" has already occurred) now that it is here what do we do? Should we remain inconsistent or should we standardize? I am of the opinion we should standardize.

Rarely has the "newer" way been inferior in most human endeavors although there are the people referenced in the above paragraph that feel differently. At most points in human history (there are of course many examples to the contrary; don't bother I know) the newer rule, invention, law, idea etc.. has been the superior one, this is exemplified by our advancement as a species (I am ready to argue this with anyone). So my contention is that the adaptation of "call the 9" is probably superior and in the interest of both spectator and player consistency & fairness it should become the standard. You are all welcome to your own opinion but that is just how I see it.