TheThaiger
Banned
Those diagrams don't draw themselves, you know.
Enough With The Aiming Already
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
Those diagrams don't draw themselves, you know.
The very title of this post is absurd; look at the top of your screen folks, it appears as
AzBilliards Forums>Main Category>Aiming Conversation
.
.Enough With The Aiming Already
Seriously.
Now to the naysayers of aiming systems; you use a system, please show me the proponent of an aiming system that has said "I don't have to practice anymore I have this new system" with a system you have to practice more not less to implement and refine the system; how does this not get through to you people?
Shots that are shot with 1 hand; most people that I have seen use their back arm when doing this, I have never seen anyone use their bridge hand.
Really?
Shocking!:shocked2:
See above; everyone knows they need practice
See above; everyone knows they need practice:boring2:
See above; everyone knows they need practice:boring2:
The only reason I have ever shot 1 handed is when I am giving a bar banger weight. Since I have been shooting left handed a lot the need for a bridge is quite rare, if you can shoot well left handed, the need for all that garbage behind the back, 1 handed, cue extensions and bridges is at the absolute minimum.
I love when I tell my students for the 1st time they need to shoot with their other hand; they say "well I can't shoot left handed" and I just say "that's because you don't and we are going to start to fix that right now". If you can't shoot with either hand you have much more of a weakness than not being able to shoot 1 handed, shooting 1 handed is pretty easy for an accomplished player; rested on the table or not, I can jump a ball 1 handed (with a jump cue) and I am far from a world beater; really it isn't so tough.
See above; everyone knows they need practice
Yea pft!!! The diamond system HAHAHAHAH who uses that?:rotflmao1:
You mean you need a good stroke to be good at pool? There is another shocker to a lot of people here maybe as much as .000001%:banghead:
AzBilliards Forums>Main Category>Aiming Conversation
.
.Enough With The Aiming Already
Seriously.
Now to the naysayers of aiming systems; you use a system, please show me the proponent of an aiming system that has said "I don't have to practice anymore I have this new system" with a system you have to practice more not less to implement and refine the system; how does this not get through to you people?
Shots that are shot with 1 hand; most people that I have seen use their back arm when doing this, I have never seen anyone use their bridge hand.
Really?
Shocking!:shocked2:
See above; everyone knows they need practice
See above; everyone knows they need practice:boring2:
See above; everyone knows they need practice:boring2:
The only reason I have ever shot 1 handed is when I am giving a bar banger weight. Since I have been shooting left handed a lot the need for a bridge is quite rare, if you can shoot well left handed, the need for all that garbage behind the back, 1 handed, cue extensions and bridges is at the absolute minimum.
I love when I tell my students for the 1st time they need to shoot with their other hand; they say "well I can't shoot left handed" and I just say "that's because you don't and we are going to start to fix that right now". If you can't shoot with either hand you have much more of a weakness than not being able to shoot 1 handed, shooting 1 handed is pretty easy for an accomplished player; rested on the table or not, I can jump a ball 1 handed (with a jump cue) and I am far from a world beater; really it isn't so tough.
See above; everyone knows they need practice
Yea pft!!! The diamond system HAHAHAHAH who uses that?:rotflmao1:
You mean you need a good stroke to be good at pool? There is another shocker to a lot of people here maybe as much as .000001%:banghead:
Nay, people, nay. 1) You can't just tell people "aim at the edge of the object ball" or "shoot the cue ball into the back of the object ball" without them starting somewhere for a field of reference. 2) Five minutes watching YouTube and y'all can confirm where most pros stand to look at the shot from an erect position. The Full Line.
Dr. Dave did a survey somewhere of players, the majority were on the full line despite their system of choice or "instinct" system.
I'll help you here, Patrick. Instead of saying only that my premise is false, you tell all of us where most players stand and then where we should stand. :smile:
Instead, let's talk about where "all systems with few exceptions" say to stand, since that's what you claimed to know. You say they all teach to stand initially in line with the CB/OB centers (what you call the "full line"). How about a few examples of systems that teach this?
pj
chgo
people are so much concerned about their "aiming" but its actually, quite often, their stroke that needs to be fixed.
pre shot routine+ good stroke= balls in the pocket
most people lack a stable pre shot routine... these people can be helped with a system that forces them to watch at lines, the CB etc.
other people just have no stroke... and these people spend many dollars on systems that should be invested in some sessions with a GOOD instructor.
so my advice; drills, drills, drills.... and MORE DRILLS. :smile: and then competition... competition.... MORE... well you know :smile:
pre shot routine+ good stroke= balls in the pocket
most people lack a stable pre shot routine... these people can be helped with a system that forces them to watch at lines, the CB etc.
other people just have no stroke... and these people spend many dollars on systems that should be invested in some sessions with a GOOD instructor.
so my advice; drills, drills, drills.... and MORE DRILLS. :smile: and then competition... competition.... MORE... well you know :smile:
Have you never seen videos or looked at book illustrations that demonstrate this over and again--I just like to articulate the fact to define terms, that's all. Where do CTE systems assume the "object ball edges" are derived? Where do a huge amount of book diagrams that explain the difference between contact point and geometric aim/ghost ball line the shot?
Where do you stand, pj, when exploring an upcoming shot? You don't stand on the full line?
I further amended my statement online to:
The full line is vital to know since with few exceptions, most professional players and skilled amateurs stand along the extended full line to begin aiming most cut shots.
Thank you.
Oh.... WOW... I get it now!
Sigg23
Sammyjoe
As a novice player i know i dont have alot of credibility here. But i have spent alot of money on "aiming systems".....i have tried most of them i believe. I personally believe that completely new players should find an aiming system that they are comfortable with (plenty of free info on the web) and just pot as many balls a day as they can....I have pretty much played non stop every day 2-3 hours a day for the last 2 years. The thing that works the best for me is seeing the contact point and visualize hitting it....Its amazing but after hitting thousands of balls your mind just kind of takes over and if you try and let go of your concious mind your muscle memory does everything for you. It really is amazing..i never believed it when people would tell me to stop thinking about the shot so hard. But as soon as i started to let go of thinking about all the different ways i could aim a shot, i started making ALOT more. Now its like the contact point lights up and everything else falls into place. My belief is that there is a place for aiming systems..but when you concentrate to hard on using them they dont work that well LOL....
-Sam
-Sam
Garbage in = equals garbage out.... Not talking about your post BTW I am talking about what happens when you fail to get a proper sight picture... CTE/Pro1, SEE and Perfect Aim all give the player a way to get on their proper line with the eyes in position to execute....
THIS is where I feel that some systems are better than others.... BUT I will say this... If you were to take the PSR elements only from these systems and then use say GB, 90/90, BoB, Point of light, Equal Overlap, Spot on the table, or even Reflection Aiming you would be way ahead of the game on aiming consistently....
I incorporate PSR elements from SEE and Perfect AIM.... After I setup on the balls I may use any of the above systems... Or I may use 3-4 of them to double double double check and build my confidence....
I think of aiming systems more as orientation systems and in that respect they are extremely valuable if you find one which is easily used for a specific person... A different one usually will click with a different player....
Good post.
Very well chosen words!
The point of his post is to let go of the use of any system. To go beyond the need for a system. To let it happen.
This requires lots of table time to do.
I get alot of inspiration about pool from sources outside of pool. I have gotta ideas from martial arts, dancers, musicians, racing, movies, tv shows, and others on how to increase my on table performance.
The one thing all the areas have in common is the need to always practice and have a reason for your practice.
As example. I watched a show on the making of a Japanese bow. There was a segment about the "the target is of no importance". It was about drawing and releasing the arrow that was the center of the shot and not the target. The target is already in your mind, so only the execution matters.
This and the fact the I saw a Christmas show of chamber music inspired me to be more aware of "drawing and releasing" the cue stick. How can a show of Christmas songs played on violins, cellos, and a harpsichord make be think about the stroke.
Well, that is what they do, stroke the strings to make beautiful music. They used their body in different positions as needed for the music. They stroked at different speeds and angles as needed for the music.
What got me was there is no separation of the parts needed to make the music or release the arrow. The act, the performance was a complete action and not action based on set steps to perform.
They had put in enough practice time that the action that was needed to be thought about to perform had now become second nature and as such the need for thought to perform is no longer needed.
In short, one must transition from thinking on how to do the shot to thinking what to do with the shot. What to do with the shot means just that. There is no concern about how, the mechanics, you need to use to do the shot. There is no need to think about where to hit the CB, it just now happens. I can think about where I want to hit the CB for the shot and can get into the proper stance for this without ever looking at the CB in order to do this.
Practice without thinking.
This requires lots of table time to do.
I get alot of inspiration about pool from sources outside of pool. I have gotta ideas from martial arts, dancers, musicians, racing, movies, tv shows, and others on how to increase my on table performance.
The one thing all the areas have in common is the need to always practice and have a reason for your practice.
As example. I watched a show on the making of a Japanese bow. There was a segment about the "the target is of no importance". It was about drawing and releasing the arrow that was the center of the shot and not the target. The target is already in your mind, so only the execution matters.
This and the fact the I saw a Christmas show of chamber music inspired me to be more aware of "drawing and releasing" the cue stick. How can a show of Christmas songs played on violins, cellos, and a harpsichord make be think about the stroke.
Well, that is what they do, stroke the strings to make beautiful music. They used their body in different positions as needed for the music. They stroked at different speeds and angles as needed for the music.
What got me was there is no separation of the parts needed to make the music or release the arrow. The act, the performance was a complete action and not action based on set steps to perform.
They had put in enough practice time that the action that was needed to be thought about to perform had now become second nature and as such the need for thought to perform is no longer needed.
In short, one must transition from thinking on how to do the shot to thinking what to do with the shot. What to do with the shot means just that. There is no concern about how, the mechanics, you need to use to do the shot. There is no need to think about where to hit the CB, it just now happens. I can think about where I want to hit the CB for the shot and can get into the proper stance for this without ever looking at the CB in order to do this.
Practice without thinking.
Sigg23
Sammyjoe
I appreciate what your saying and would like to try and maybe add some CTE to my game to get on the line...then use contact point? that the jist of one of your points?
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That is an excellent post and a good way toward improving someone's stroke and aim.
But you look at a g.b.c.p. where someone else looks at an o.b.c.p. and etc. You would never tell someone "break your wrist 90 degrees, look at the far distant wall of the poolroom, now close your eyes and shoot". Everyone has to have some kind of focus.
But "the target of no importance" reduces tension in archery. Something similiar is very important in pool for smooth strokes.... thank you.
But you look at a g.b.c.p. where someone else looks at an o.b.c.p. and etc. You would never tell someone "break your wrist 90 degrees, look at the far distant wall of the poolroom, now close your eyes and shoot". Everyone has to have some kind of focus.
But "the target of no importance" reduces tension in archery. Something similiar is very important in pool for smooth strokes.... thank you.