Why is 8 ball least popular? (here)

To me ANY game of pool is fun, although as a beginner I haven't tried one-pocket or straight pool yet.

9- and 10-ball are more challenging because you can only shoot at the lowest numbered ball on the table. But the safety battles are great fun.

8-ball is easier since you have a variety of balls to shoot. That's why I enjoy it when I'm just playing to practice shot-making (I know -- I should be shooting drills during that time, but I can only stand doing drills for a while).

Why do AZers dislike 8-ball? I guess it's because beginners like me enjoy it. We all need to look down on someone (I look down on a friend of mine who always shoots a bank shot instead of shooting what I consider a reasonably easy cut shot of 70+ degrees)
 
Personally I like 9-ball the best. It demands you to play perfect. You said you could run to the 7, miss, and then your opponent just cleans up the last 3 to win. Thats the best part of it to me. You must play perfect or you will lose. Get out of line and your pattern becomes a nightmare. Plus, I love long position shots. 8-ball for me is a little more forgiving. Get out of line and you can possibly still get out by altering your pattern. If you're too out of line you can always duck. I just love the rhythm that rotation games give you.
 
framedglasshadd said:
Exactly this. I did not know AZers disliked 8-ball until this thread.
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I'm there with you. I just enjoy playing the game, any game. They all have their own challenges and simplicities. There was an overwhelming feeling I got from the thread earlier about 8 ball being the most popular game that people here either didn't like or looked down on 8 ball.

I've heard people mention that it's "bar pool", that it's only for beginners/bangers. There are a few that have come forward to admit that they *gasp* like 8 ball.
I am still scratching my head to figure out why it is viewed negatively???
 
Funny. I shoot pool in the central New York area and a lot of the players around me really like playing 8 ball. It's a good game, and personally I don't like it as much because of the clusters it presents especially on 7 foot tables. Of course, solving the clusters is what makes it such a beautiful game. I like 9/10 ball because it allows me to flow and let my stroke out. There's only one ball to position for; get out of line and you've got to make it work.

I always felt that there was "elitism" in the pool halls, sometimes total beginners will play 9 ball just because it makes them seem like better players... I feel that a good amount of 8 ball is necessary to become a good 9 ball player.
 
weakfingers said:
I always felt that there was "elitism" in the pool halls, sometimes total beginners will play 9 ball just because it makes them seem like better players... I feel that a good amount of 8 ball is necessary to become a good 9 ball player.
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I notice that too in some places I shoot... a couple of C or D players banging around 9 ball even though they are no threat to run more than 3 balls before getting drastically out of line. But they want to gamble at it and pretend they're PLAYERS because they're on a big table playing the big boy game =p

Privately they probably understand that when they play that 20 or 50 dollar set, the outcome is basically a coin flip, and it might even be a comfort to them knowing their level of play that day doesn't really matter much. It's nice not having to bear down on the first couple of balls, when you know the other guy's gonna fυck up the 7 ball anyway.
 
dareads said:
I'm there with you. I just enjoy playing the game, any game. They all have their own challenges and simplicities. There was an overwhelming feeling I got from the thread earlier about 8 ball being the most popular game that people here either didn't like or looked down on 8 ball.

I've heard people mention that it's "bar pool", that it's only for beginners/bangers. There are a few that have come forward to admit that they *gasp* like 8 ball.
I am still scratching my head to figure out why it is viewed negatively???
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I asked that question on why it is so popular... and only to find out it was not as popular as I thought.

So to summarize this 8-ball research:

Reasons for popularity:
-Easy to understand, not a lot of annoying rules (but there are a lot of versions of rules)
-Best value on coin-operated tables
-Not too fast, not too slow game
-Everyone knows it, easy to find someone to play with
-Odds are more "fair"

Reasons for unpopularity:
-"Mainstream"
-Played at bars and shady places
-Does not depend as much on skill as other games (although I disagree with this one)
-Bad connotation with gambling
-Casual players, makes you look unskilled (I disagree again)

My conclusion: It is preference, however, the fact that 8-ball is so heavily promoted as the 'classic pool game' also helps its name a lot. I also believe 8-ball requires just as much skill, because fundamentals of other games (stroke, english, diamond system, etc.) can be applied to this game as well to give you and your opponent a challenging game. It is not a fast game, like 9 ball, and not a patience-tester like 14.1. Good social game that does not make me feel so uptight. Also, apparently the odds are not so stacked in favor of a "more skilled" player so that it is nearly fair game for everyone (some see this as good and some see it as bad). While it gives it that "fair game" appearance, it also gives it that "too easy" appearance as well. I think it mostly depends on who you play with, though, for it to be considered an easy or hard game.
 
framedglasshadd said:
I actually thought it may have been somewhat the opposite; everyone knows how to play 8-ball, so it is... "in". I was curious, though, as to why it became so in.
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I really think 8 Ball became so popular with the increased use of the coin op bar box. An awful lot of pool is played on coin fed 7 footers. It's is the perfect game for that - you get to use all the balls, it is single rack so the next guy gets to step up without waiting forever, and you don't have to spot any balls.

When I started playing as a kid 8 Ball was, of course, the first game we played. But those of us that got serious graduated to straight pool. So 8 Ball always seemed like the beginners game. It wasn't until recently that I joined a league and started playing it again. I've come to appreciate it. It has nuance, strategy, and options. It may still be the beginners game but I realize now it isn't just for beginners. That one game between Schmidt and Deuel that went 16 innings and took almost 45 minutes was epic.

Here's another great game between Efren and Django that illustrates the nuance and strategy I'm talking about. Watch this and then tell me it is still just for bangers:

Part 1

Part 2
 
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dareads said:
So what is your beef with 8 ball? Or is it simply a matter of liking 9/10/1P/14.1 more?
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It's what bangers play.

They give me a hard time saying it's the "real" pool and that snookering someone is "dirty pool".

And every other rack is an argument about rules and how "their" rules are the real rules.

That's why I hate 8-ball.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
I really think 8 Ball became so popular with the increased use of the coin op bar box. An awful lot of pool is played on coin fed 7 footers. It's is the perfect game for that - you get to use all the balls, it is single rack so the next guy gets to step up without waiting forever, and you don't have to spot any balls.

When I started playing as a kid 8 Ball was, of course, the first game we played. But those of us that got serious graduated to straight pool. So 8 Ball always seemed like the beginners game. It wasn't until recently that I joined a league and started playing it again. I've come to appreciate it. It has nuance, strategy, and options. It may still be the beginners game but I realize now it isn't just for beginners. That one game between Schmidt and Deuel that went 16 innings and took almost 45 minutes was epic.

Here's another great game between Efren and Django that illustrates the nuance and strategy I'm talking about. Watch this and then tell me it is still just for bangers:

Part 1

Part 2
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Those videos are a great example of what most lower skilled players do not do! Think ahead and use the balls to your advantage.
Should be a must watch for APA players. They usually run out until they get to the last 2 tied up balls and then they call "time out"!
Sometimes I just shake my head. :rolleyes:
 
mista335 said:
It's what bangers play.

They give me a hard time saying it's the "real" pool and that snookering someone is "dirty pool".

And every other rack is an argument about rules and how "their" rules are the real rules.

That's why I hate 8-ball.
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So then you just say "Let's just play 9-ball instead." And they're like, "OK sure."... Problem solved right? Is that how it goes down? I bet not. I'm guessing your problem is not so much with 8-ball, I'm guessing your problem is with the bangers.

If you find 8-ball "players" who play the game right, including safeties and you hash out the rules to beforehand... "You play in a league?", "Yes, BCAPL rules OK?", "Sure"...

THEN how do you like 8-ball?

Fatz
 
mista335 said:
It's what bangers play.

They give me a hard time saying it's the "real" pool and that snookering someone is "dirty pool".

And every other rack is an argument about rules and how "their" rules are the real rules.

That's why I hate 8-ball.
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Funny and true

Add to that the guy who absolutely mangles his position and just switches over to another object ball he falls on and thinks that's good pool.
 
Pre-Flag Master said:
So then you just say "Let's just play 9-ball instead." And they're like, "OK sure."... Problem solved right? Is that how it goes down? I bet not. I'm guessing your problem is not so much with 8-ball, I'm guessing your problem is with the bangers.
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You're right. Where I am bangers are everywhere. There's one now. No league just pubs filled with bangers. Hundreds of them. No fouls - just bang 'em in.

If I drink enough the bangers and pool tables go away.
 
Shaky1 said:
Those videos are a great example of what most lower skilled players do not do! Think ahead and use the balls to your advantage.
Should be a must watch for APA players. They usually run out until they get to the last 2 tied up balls and then they call "time out"!
Sometimes I just shake my head. :rolleyes:
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Go ahead and roll your eyes and shake your head....I fear there is a disconnect between accomplished players and "APA" players. (Yeah, I know, big surprise.)

You folks that play really well (or think that you do, heh) need to remember that most APA players (and probably many in other leagues too) can't run out successfully. If you took all their opponents balls off the table, they probably won't finish an 8 ball run. That isn't an indictment, that's simply a fact. I am one of them, though I've been known to run out occasionally. We get out of position, or miss one we shouldn't. It's why we are at the level we are.

So to keep expecting these league players to play safe till they know they can get out is the wrong premise, at least at this level of play. Don't misunderstand me, we all need to play better safes and make shot choices more wisely. But in league 8-ball, you gotta get some when you can.

Waiting till you get snookered or way out of position clearly is the wrong choice. But if I have to wait till I KNOW I can get out, wow....you folks think league takes all night now? Holy smokes, we'd be there for breakfast!:eek:

(To me, the better option, for our level of play, is to use more two-way shots, more often. Also difficult to teach to beginners, but a better approach to getting balls in and/or leaving your opponent in a difficult spot. Along with learning to realize sometimes a safe is the best option, even early in the game. Without thinking you're gonna get out soon.)

Back on topic, I like both 8 and 9 ball (and 10 and 14.1, and hopefully I'll learn one-pocket someday) and I think playing both games helps the beginning player develop different parts of their games, so its good to mix it up.
 
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justadub said:
Go ahead and roll your eyes and shake your head....I fear there is a disconnect between accomplished players and "APA" players. (Yeah, I know, big surprise.)

You folks that play really well (or think that you do, heh) need to remember that most APA players (and probably many in other leagues too) can't run out successfully. If you took all their opponents balls off the table, they probably won't finish an 8 ball run. That isn't an indictment, that's simply a fact. I am one of them, though I've been known to run out occasionally. We get out of position, or miss one we shouldn't. It's why we are at the level we are.

So to keep expecting these league players to play safe till they know they can get out is the wrong premise, at least at this level of play. Don't misunderstand me, we all need to play better safes and make shot choices more wisely. But in league 8-ball, you gotta get some when you can.

Waiting till you get snookered or way out of position clearly is the wrong choice. But if I have to wait till I KNOW I can get out, wow....you folks think league takes all night now? Holy smokes, we'd be there for breakfast!:eek:

(To me, the better option, for our level of play, is to use more two-way shots, more often. Also difficult to teach to beginners, but a better approach to getting balls in and/or leaving your opponent in a difficult spot. Along with learning to realize sometimes a safe is the best option, even early in the game. Without thinking you're gonna get out soon.)

Back on topic, I like both 8 and 9 ball (and 10 and 14.1, and hopefully I'll learn one-pocket someday) and I think playing both games helps the beginning player develop different parts of their games, so its good to mix it up.
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Actually, those videos and the commentary that go with them is exactly why lower skill levels are just that. It's only when they smarten up a bit that their skill level goes up. That is what they don't get. They don't know what they don't know and for the most part they just keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
You can see the mistakes they are making from the first shot that goes in the hole that they should not have taken in the first place. They think they are superman and are going to run them out when superman would not even try.
 
Shaky1 said:
Actually, those videos and the commentary that go with them is exactly why lower skill levels are just that. It's only when they smarten up a bit that their skill level goes up. That is what they don't get. They don't know what they don't know and for the most part they just keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
You can see the mistakes they are making from the first shot that goes in the hole that they should not have taken in the first place. They think they are superman and are going to run them out when superman would not even try.
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I promise you, if you play those video's to league players, they'd stop paying attention very quickly. Extremely quickly.

I'm a crappy league player, and I understand where you are going with this, and the value of what is happening in that game. Still, you aren't allowing for the fact that many league players aren't ever going to be students of the game, for better or for worse. Trying to teach them to play an extended safety battle like in that game would drive them away. Which may very well be what you want, i suppose....

Many/most league players don't have the skills that accomplished players do, so making poor shot choices are only a part of the problem. And what you term "trying to be Superman" isn't accurate at all, to them. They don't believe they are gonna get out, they are trying to get what they can. Not a great strategy, but this is league.

Again, a better approach is to try and teach them (us) better choices, including safes and two-way shots, and hope their game improves as their knowledge grows, so that they (we) can become the runout players that you want.
 
Teach is exactly what I try to do with them! You are correct that some do not care! I then become taught. I don't try to teach them anything anymore. :wink:
 
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