OUUCH on CNC Lathe

Great going Tom.
One thing I noticed right away was the butt going the opposite way I would like it.
I'd have the joint end by the chuck, not on the tailstock end.
I'd cut right to left.
Rapid to X30, then slowly go in, taper down to X0.

To cut the wrap groove , I'd rapid to X24.
To cut forearm blanks, I'd rapid to some X12.5.

One thing about this cnc taperer though is, dust collection by the cutter is a challenge.
 
Mr. Steve Klein
It all starts with the first pass. If you read the posts you will read where I will be doing many more and sharing the video.

As a voting member of the Cue Makers Association I would think you would try to give advice on improvement rather than try to tear a house down.

Some people go through life with nothing on their mind but how to make things succeed even when they have to fall on their face a few times to get there, others just send negativity.

I make no money compensation but I'm in it to have this work so it will work. Maybe some adjustments but it will work.

When I was a kid in Grade school they brought a computer in about the size of the Gym. It spit out cards with little punch holes. Today your Cell Phone has more computer apps than that whole machine. I was proud to see it run as it was the future.

You must be much different than most Cue Makers I know who make jigs and have them work for the first time and get excited.

I got into this thread with 90% saying it would not do the first pass.

Each pass makes more mistaken. Lets see what the future passes bring.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Great going Tom.
One thing I noticed right away was the butt going the opposite way I would like it.
I'd have the joint end by the chuck, not on the tailstock end.
I'd cut right to left.
Rapid to X30, then slowly go in, taper down to X0.

To cut the wrap groove , I'd rapid to X24.
To cut forearm blanks, I'd rapid to some X12.5.

One thing about this cnc taperer though is, dust collection by the cutter is a challenge.
Click to expand...

Thanks Joey, thats what I call constructive posting. Thank You.
 
TomHay said:
Mr. Steve Klein
It all starts with the first pass. If you read the posts you will read where I will be doing many more and sharing the video.

As a voting member of the Cue Makers Association I would think you would try to give advice on improvement rather than try to tear a house down.

Some people go through life with nothing on their mind but how to make things succeed even when they have to fall on their face a few times to get there, others just send negativity.

I make no money compensation but I'm in it to have this work so it will work. Maybe some adjustments but it will work.

When I was a kid in Grade school they brought a computer in about the size of the Gym. It spit out cards with little punch holes. Today your Cell Phone has more computer apps than that whole machine. I was proud to see it run as it was the future.


You must be much different than most Cue Makers I know who make jigs and have them work for the first time and get excited.

I got into this thread with 90% saying it would not do the first pass.

Each pass makes more mistaken. Lets see what the future passes bring.
Click to expand...

Mr. Tom Hay,
If you look closely I said I hoped it worked, and I still do. I just thought you were overly postive about it for a one pass test. I hope you do more testing and I hope they work. But you sure came across like a snake oil salesman with your post. Especially the misleading heading . Sorry if you take offense, but there are way to many people in this business selling snake oil. I didn't see any of the previous posts about no way it would work. Your current post sure sounded to me like you had passed judgement and it was something everyone should be lining up to buy. Just how I interpreted your post. I never attacked the product. Never said it would not work.
By the way, I have stood in line to turn in computer punch cards to the big room. No one did one run on the computer and declared it a success.
 
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Mr. Steve Klien,

To be a Snake Oil Salesman someone must be selling something. I am not. I bought this and am a satisfied customer. What Todd decides to do as far as selling is up to him, not you or me.

Had you read the other thread you would have read about binding issues, trying to compensate for weight etc. The start of this thread was like a little joke between friends, nothing more, nothing less.

Now, we did see no binding, the weight of router offset the weight of step motors. A Router has been used to taper by a taper bar on this type set up for 20 years. What logic dictates step motors will not do the same?

I had to shim parts and completly rebuild two of my Bludworth CNC's in the 1990's but when I was done, they were exact. This was the 1990's and I paid $17,500.00 just for one of them so today that would equate to about 30K.

I paid $1,300.00 for this one, on ebay. I am not an out of the box kind of guy, I modify everything. I just get confused, lathes based on this design have been tapering for over 20 years, CNC has been around over 20 years I just don't get the problem in combining the two.

Shoot, for $1,300.00 at one time I would have been happy just using it to cut square round and give me a DRO for cutting rings station.

My first computer was a TRS80 Radio shack, I learned to write DOS with it and it was succesful. They have changed quite a bit over the years just as I am sure this concept will but success like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Good day sir
 
Im in the process of completing my taper lathe. Taig based with something like the "Deco Taper Bar System" used as my taper bar.

After visiting with Todd and talking with Tom and watching the 1st test run of this CNC Taper set up- I think Id try to save $ to buy it for my shop!

Todd- hats off to you for looking outside the box, great job!
Tom- hats off to uou for seeing something in this product and taking the risk!
 
Todd did a good job on this. For those who did not think it would work have obviously not been around these things much, as there has been CNC modified carriages similar to this for over 12 years. The Frog system did the same thing this one did. The Frog's problem was that he used too light duty of stepper motors. But the Frog's self contained programmable controller was nice. You did not need any other computer, just its little hand held unit.
Todd solved the problems the Frog units had by going larger on the stepper motors. The Frog would also cut threads as it had something that went on the headstock to synchronize it. I never marketed the Frog units or any of the other CNC items we use in our shop because I did not want the headaches of trying to teach someone how to use CNC. But concerning this unit all I can say is "Nice job and great price."
 
cueman said:
Todd did a good job on this. For those who did not think it would work have obviously not been around these things much, as there has been CNC modified carriages similar to this for over 12 years. The Frog system did the same thing this one did. The Frog's problem was that he used too light duty of stepper motors. But the Frog's self contained programmable controller was nice. You did not need any other computer, just its little hand held unit.
Todd solved the problems the Frog units had by going larger on the stepper motors. The Frog would also cut threads as it had something that went on the headstock to synchronize it. I never marketed the Frog units or any of the other CNC items we use in our shop because I did not want the headaches of trying to teach someone how to use CNC. But concerning this unit all I can say is "Nice job and great price."
Click to expand...

Kind words from a big man,

Chris I understand the not wanting to teach the CNC part. I would however set up a service to g code a 2 Axis and charge for it. It could all be done through email and paypal.

Thanks,
Tom
 
cueman said:
Todd did a good job on this. For those who did not think it would work have obviously not been around these things much, as there has been CNC modified carriages similar to this for over 12 years. The Frog system did the same thing this one did. The Frog's problem was that he used too light duty of stepper motors. But the Frog's self contained programmable controller was nice. You did not need any other computer, just its little hand held unit.
Todd solved the problems the Frog units had by going larger on the stepper motors. The Frog would also cut threads as it had something that went on the headstock to synchronize it. I never marketed the Frog units or any of the other CNC items we use in our shop because I did not want the headaches of trying to teach someone how to use CNC. But concerning this unit all I can say is "Nice job and great price."
Click to expand...



I looked into them right before they stopped making them. You may have been the person that mentioned them to Me.It was a pretty cool idea, and the price was really affordable, but I never pulled the trigger on one.. I think Carter may still have a page up about them, and yes If I remember correctly You could do threading with them, seems like that's what I was interested in them for at the time.
 
Cue Crazy said:
I looked into them right before they stopped making them. You may have been the person that mentioned them to Me.It was a pretty cool idea, and the price was really affordable, but I never pulled the trigger on one.. I think Carter may still have a page up about them, and yes If I remember correctly You could do threading with them, seems like that's what I was interested in them for at the time.
Click to expand...

You guys would know better than I if it is suitable for thredding. Due to the tooth design it can go off a .00005 to a .0001 or even a little more. If you hit the (?) step mode on the Mach 3 it will show the travel vs what you set it for.

This is not a problem in cutting and tapering as you repeat each time and have your woddstock inserted proper.

I cannot stop on a dime but am truly satisfied to stop on 9.999 cents.
 
TomHay said:
You guys would know better than I if it is suitable for thredding. Due to the tooth design it can go off a .00005 to a .0001 or even a little more. If you hit the (?) step mode on the Mach 3 it will show the travel vs what you set it for.

This is not a problem in cutting and tapering as you repeat each time and have your woddstock inserted proper.

I cannot stop on a dime but am truly satisfied to stop on 9.999 cents.
Click to expand...

Just for clarification. How does Mach 3 know how far it really went. Does it have a rotary or linear encoder.

Second if I may try to answer the threading question. You would need to control the spindle to do threading. With the Stepper box that's included and Mach 3 it should be workable by hooking up a stepper motor to drive it.

Tom, I'd be careful quoting .00005 accuracy. That's way better than any
rack system I've ever heard of, heck it's better than most C3 grade ground ballscrews.

The good thing is that it doesn't that level of accuracy. If you can
hit + or - .002 you will be doing just fine.
 
cutter said:
Just for clarification. How does Mach 3 know how far it really went. Does it have a rotary or linear encoder.

Second if I may try to answer the threading question. You would need to control the spindle to do threading. With the Stepper box that's included and Mach 3 it should be workable by hooking up a stepper motor to drive it.

Tom, I'd be careful quoting .00005 accuracy. That's way better than any
rack system I've ever heard of, heck it's better than most C3 grade ground ballscrews.

The good thing is that it doesn't that level of accuracy. If you can
hit + or - .002 you will be doing just fine.
Click to expand...

Mr. Steven Klien (I call you this because quite a while/months ago a great Cue Maker was posting and got insulted by the way his name was called which I can't blame him)

You may need to correct me and or perhaps educate me, I used BobCad 1 for years, Mach 3 is new to me and my lingo might not be correct and please believe me I am not trying to mis represent and my true meaning may be taken wrong.

When you are set up in the main window you put in your increments of G Code, it does it or reflects that it does.

When you hit the Tab Key for the manual set up and to jog better on arrow buttons it will not slow jog to certain numbers as it cannot using the Y as travel but shows my understanding of what it will and won't do due to the saw tooth carrage. It will come close as in my last post but not exact so the readout you get on Front working page and manual are off by what I stated.

I hope by this post you can better envision what I am seeing so you can hopefully give the right explanation. I by know means am scared of being wrong and told what is right, this is how we learn and the reason many of us are here.

Hope this makes sense.
 
TomHay said:
Mr. Steven Klien (I call you this because quite a while/months ago a great Cue Maker was posting and got insulted by the way his name was called which I can't blame him)

You may need to correct me and or perhaps educate me, I used BobCad 1 for years, Mach 3 is new to me and my lingo might not be correct and please believe me I am not trying to mis represent and my true meaning may be taken wrong.

When you are set up in the main window you put in your increments of G Code, it does it or reflects that it does.

When you hit the Tab Key for the manual set up and to jog better on arrow buttons it will not slow jog to certain numbers as it cannot using the Y as travel but shows my understanding of what it will and won't do due to the saw tooth carrage. It will come close as in my last post but not exact so the readout you get on Front working page and manual are off by what I stated.

I hope by this post you can better envision what I am seeing so you can hopefully give the right explanation. I by know means am scared of being wrong and told what is right, this is how we learn and the reason many of us are here.

Hope this makes sense.
Click to expand...

Tom,
I think where the confusion is coming from is you are talking about commanded position and I'm talking actual machine motion. Unless the machine has some type of feedback, all Mach knows is how many pulses it has sent out. Mach could be sending out enough pulses/ stepper motor step commands to move the carriage 20 inches, but if you measure the actual movement of the carriage it could be more, it could be less, or it could be right on 20. The read out on the Mach screen has no idea what the machine has really done. You could disconnect the machine and Mach would still think it moved 20.0

And please just call me Steve.
 
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TomHay said:
Mr. Steven Klien (I call you this because quite a while/months ago a great Cue Maker was posting and got insulted by the way his name was called which I can't blame him)

You may need to correct me and or perhaps educate me, I used BobCad 1 for years, Mach 3 is new to me and my lingo might not be correct and please believe me I am not trying to mis represent and my true meaning may be taken wrong.

When you are set up in the main window you put in your increments of G Code, it does it or reflects that it does.

When you hit the Tab Key for the manual set up and to jog better on arrow buttons it will not slow jog to certain numbers as it cannot using the Y as travel but shows my understanding of what it will and won't do due to the saw tooth carrage. It will come close as in my last post but not exact so the readout you get on Front working page and manual are off by what I stated.

I hope by this post you can better envision what I am seeing so you can hopefully give the right explanation. I by know means am scared of being wrong and told what is right, this is how we learn and the reason many of us are here.

Hope this makes sense.
Click to expand...

Tom, the Dro displays on Mach 3 show a supposed position of the axis. This display has not been rounded to the nearest step that you can take. If you want to know how small of a step you can take then look at your motor tuning page. Look at the "steps per" area of the axis. In inches this is the number of steps that a stepper takes to move 1 inch. If the number is 10,000 then 1/10,000 = .0001" and that is the smallest step that stepper system can move. Now what you may have an issue with is back lash. To test this you will want to load up an indicator and incrementally jog away from the indicator .001" at a time. Count the number of times you jog until you see the indicator move. This is your backlash. As I stated before on your system it may not matter as you simply are cutting tapers. Either way, Mach 3 does not know the physical position of your axis, it just tracks where the pulse train has commanded the motor to be. This number has not been rounded to your exact minimal steps of your system.
By the way, I am familiar with Mach 3 so let me know if you have any questions. I may be able to help.

Jim.
 
Steve and Jim,

I don't think it was written in any but the nicest meanings but this is a machine I bought which Todd is introducing.

The reason I have brought up what I have is many asked in the past about it being 2 axis, going home and back in for other cuts.

On Todds machine if you try to arrow it in or out in the regular window it moves to fast and you will be pushing the arrows forever trying to synch in.

Going to the manual you can chage to Step and zero in fast as the arrow mode becomes slow enough to allow this and clear and reset.

Lets say I want to cut equal size rings with a parting knife at .250. I make a skim pass, go to manual mode and minus y .250. My reading will be .249xx, cant get to .250 but after making ring cut, Xxing back I can go back manualy to .249xx minus Y so each ring will be the same.

LOL, I know I am talking good ole boy and you folks know the correct or exact lingo.

It's fun, pretty darn accurate and didn;t cost $17,500.00 like my last CNC.
 
TomHay said:
Steve and Jim,

I don't think it was written in any but the nicest meanings but this is a machine I bought which Todd is introducing.

The reason I have brought up what I have is many asked in the past about it being 2 axis, going home and back in for other cuts.

On Todds machine if you try to arrow it in or out in the regular window it moves to fast and you will be pushing the arrows forever trying to synch in.

Going to the manual you can chage to Step and zero in fast as the arrow mode becomes slow enough to allow this and clear and reset.

Lets say I want to cut equal size rings with a parting knife at .250. I make a skim pass, go to manual mode and minus y .250. My reading will be .249xx, cant get to .250 but after making ring cut, Xxing back I can go back manualy to .249xx minus Y so each ring will be the same.

LOL, I know I am talking good ole boy and you folks know the correct or exact lingo.

It's fun, pretty darn accurate and didn;t cost $17,500.00 like my last CNC.
Click to expand...

Tom is your Y DRO reads .249xx then click on the green area of the DRO and type in on the keyboard .250 and then enter. This should fix your issue. If it does not then repeat until the issue goes away. LOL.


Jim.
 
Jim,

I don't really have an issue. I think Todd will sell quite a few of these. As pointed out on the home window if you try to use your arrow keys to say 1.103 moving the tool post in or out the speed will have you there all day trying to hit it. If you go to the manual mode using the Tab window and setting it on step it takes seconds, clear and type in a code or go to home widow and use a G code you already wrote.

You have to keep in mind, you know Mach 3. Many who buy will not and I am simply going over some of the ways to get where you want to go at a good pace, what you will see where.
 
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