The Hustler and The Color of Money

I don't see Charlie as a bad guy to Eddie. Didn't Eddie tell Sarah that he saw Charlie as a father. Under the circumstances it wasn't wrong for Charlie to keep his cut. Maybe they needed the money to rebuild and it looked as if Eddie was drunk and he was giving the money away. Eddie needed Charlie as much as Charlie needed Eddie. Ultimately, Eddie was so consumed about beating Fats that he didn't care about anything or anyone else. It was far more of a dick move for Eddie to run out on his partner Charlie, than for Charlie to hold back his cut.
 
Sarah, 'You're not a loser Eddie... you're a winner!'

Beating Fats did not make him a winner. Going to play Fats again 'on his own' with Sarah on his mind & in his heart is what kept him from becoming a loser. He would not give Bert 'his cut'.

Eddie to Bert, 'You better go all the way Bert... you better kill me."

It's not about the money!

Shallow win? Yes I'd say so considering the cost. But... he did not win for himself.

He won for Sarah.
 
trivia question without looking it up - what was Minnesota Fat's real name?

Hint: it's not in the movie (at least I don't think it is)
 
JB Cases said:
That's true and I am one of the kids who did the twirling cue thing. :-(

But over the years and having watched TCOM so many times I am deeply appreciative of the nuance Scorsese and the actors put into the movie. I feel that it takes several viewings to understand some of the relationships and subtexts happening.

At least that's how it was for me. The TCOM book didn't really do it for me but the movie did. Now "the Hustler" book is also significantly different than the movie "the Hustler" as well in key parts. For example there is no love triangle in the book, Sarah never even meets Bert and Sarah doesn't die. I think in this case both the movie and the book were excellent.
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I agree. The TCOM movie followed the Hustler much better than the TCOM book. The book was just plain depressing, without much in the way of redemption apart from the pool part. The movie touched deeply into the character one has to be a winner...Eddie's "arc" goes from self-absorbed player looking to be the best (without regard to money), to turning into his arch-nemesis Burt, then turning back into himself at the end of his life, regaining an appreciation for what he valued back in 1962. Awesome...I think Scorcese did a great thing putting the story back on track.

I'd like to see a movie based loosely on the Playboy short story, too...IIRC, it starts with Eddie getting paroled from a stretch in prison, grabbing his cue and hitting the road again...? or am I miss-remembering? That's a story we've seen happen in real life right here; a couple of times over.
 
Pushout said:
George Hegerman, Minnesota Fats.
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Thanx, couldn't remember that one....
...and the pool hall they played the big match at was Bennington's.....
....a pretty good likeness to the real Bensinger's in Chicago.
 
Just some trivia on TCOM:

Just like a good actor should, Paul Newman did his homework for TCOM. I remember at a tournament in Chicago, he was sitting in the stands wearing sunglasses taking everything in while we were playing. It was exciting and a bit unnerving at the time knowing he was there watching us all playing.

I had a conversation with Walter Tevis at a tournament in New England, at Sy and Dolly Eckstadt's room, to be exact. Tevis was writing TCOM at that time and he told me he was traveling around with Little David Howard as a study for a character in the book.
 
FranCrimi said:
Just some trivia on TCOM:

Just like a good actor should, Paul Newman did his homework for TCOM. I remember at a tournament in Chicago, he was sitting in the stands wearing sunglasses taking everything in while we were playing. It was exciting and a bit unnerving at the time knowing he was there watching us all playing.

I had a conversation with Walter Tevis at a tournament in New England, at Sy and Dolly Eckstadt's room, to be exact. Tevis was writing TCOM at that time and he told me he was traveling around with Little David Howard as a study for a character in the book.
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I'm in Chicago today. I've tried to get folks to take me to Chris's billiards with no luck. :'(

Now I can't leave due to engine failure. Worst trip ever!



Next year maybe


Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
 
Perfect

duckie said:
There is an underlying theme that gets overlooked. That is one of always playing your best.

The only hustling you see in the Hustler was in the opening scene whereas in TCOM, it's done all the time.

In the Hustler, Eddie wanted to show how the game can be played. Remember the scene in the park when his thumbs were broke. He played billiard and won.
He wanted Fats to quit first.

When he and Fats matched up, there was no BS, no weight was asked, just let's play some straight pool.

TCOM is the opposite. Hide your speed, con the other person, pull a scam. Until Eddie remembers what playing pool is all about, play were best. Wanting a person best game, to beat a persons best game. He remembers its not about the money, but who is the best at this game we call pool, giving your best to this game.

This type of players are hard to find now days. Those that look for the best stick in the house and goes lets play some pool to see who is best.
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Your take on both movies is perfect,I can not agree more.The only other thing I would like to add from the COM that once pool is in your blood you can not take it out.How many players have we all met that played when they were younger and later in life came back to the game.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
My local pool room has a bar/cafe attached with a big projection screen. I suggested they show movies on the occasional slow night, so we just finished seeing The Hustler followed a couple of weeks later by The Color of Money. I was struck by the plot and character similarities in the two movies, and wonder if anybody here has noticed the same things.

Obviously TCoM is a sequel to The Hustler, with Paul Newman reprising his role as Fast Eddie Felson.

Another striking similarity is the dynamics of the two relationship triangles: Eddie/Sarah/Bert (Newman/Laurie/Scott) in The Hustler and Vincent/Carmen/Eddie (Cruise/Mostrantonio/Newman) in TCoM. The interesting thing about this to me is that Eddie takes the role in TCoM that Bert had in The Hustler: the stakehorse and the lovers' antagonist (but with a heart of gold in Eddie's case).

Any other interesting similarities or comparisons you've noticed?

pj
chgo

P.S. Trivia note: TCoM isn't in the same league as The Hustler movie-wise. The Hustler was nominated for 9 Oscars in 1961, only winning for (I think) art direction. But the Academy made amends in 1986 by giving Newman Best Actor for TCoM - which was really the Oscar he deserved for The Hustler 25 years earlier. I don't think TCoM really deserved any Oscars.

P.P.S. What do you suggest for future movies? Pool themes are best, but not absolutely necessary.
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the similarities in plot and characters are not surprising given that Tevis wrote both novels
 
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