Did I make the right ruling? Very odd.

[bdorman]

A friend and I are playing 8-ball.

He's got the 14-ball very close to the corner pocket but has to shoot a combo with the 10-ball to pocket the 14. Well, the 10-ball goes a little narrow and here's the result:

I'm not sure if you can see it in the photo but both balls are beyond the shelf and below the plane of the slate. You can see the 13-ball under the 14 but it's far down in the pocket and not holding the 14 up; the balls are wedged beyond the shelf and below the plane of the slate, but they haven't "dropped."

Are the balls pocketed?

 

[Icon of Sin]

I would say yes since they are below the plane of the slate. Shooting these balls would probably send the cb airborne.

 

[oldplayer]

one would think that if they are below the level of slate, they should be considered "in",,,just my lowly humble opinion

 

[ctyhntr]

Since you asked, looking at that picture it appears to me the 13 ball is propping up the 14. Next time, remove the balls from the drop pockets when they start to fill up.

 

[Icon of Sin]

Since you asked, looking at that picture it appears to me the 13 ball is propping up the 14. Next time, remove the balls from the drop pockets when they start to fill up.

..........

You can see the 13-ball under the 14 but it's far down in the pocket and not holding the 14 up

 

[pooln8r]

A friend and I are playing 8-ball.

He's got the 14-ball very close to the corner pocket but has to shoot a combo with the 10-ball to pocket the 14. Well, the 10-ball goes a little narrow and here's the result:

I'm not sure if you can see it in the photo but both balls are beyond the shelf and below the plane of the slate. You can see the 13-ball under the 14 but it's far down in the pocket and not holding the 14 up; the balls are wedged beyond the shelf and below the plane of the slate, but they haven't "dropped."

Are the balls pocketed?

IMHO...they're pocketed. Funny and odd that happened like that but they are to be considered pocketed. They both broke the plain of the pocket and are basically in there so drop' em in:smile: An additional shot to break them free to fall would most likely send the cue ball flying like was mentioned already. Seen it happen too many times....no need to break windows, teeth or anything else within range of this odd table situation :smile:

Good shooting to you!

Kevin

 

[Txstang1]

for the money, those balls are not pocketed , IMO.

 

[pooler]

Are the balls pocketed?

Yes, they are :smile:

WPA Standarized Rules:

DEFINITIONS:
8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.

There is more in point 8.3 but it does not deal directly with this case.
Hope, this helps.

Regards

 

[ENGLISH!]

The proper ruling is probably that they are to be considered pocketed if they are below the level of the table. However I would like to say no since the shooter did not plan the shot correctly enough to get one or both balls to fall.

What about a ball that goes all the way into the pocket but then bounces out & just sits there or worse rolls out a bit and/or even hits another ball?

Best regards,

 

[pooler]

Well...

What about a ball that goes ...

Should have cited the whole definition, just in case ...:grin:

WPA Standarized Rules
DEFINITIONS
8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.

If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is taken.
An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to see that this duty is performed.
.........................................................................................................................................

Regards,

 

[12squared]

Yes, they are :smile:

WPA Standarized Rules:

DEFINITIONS:
8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.

There is more in point 8.3 but it does not deal directly with this case.
Hope, this helps.

Regards

Thank you - yes, they are pocketed.

 

[foospot]

below the level of the slate?

If the bottom of the called ball is below the level of the slate then it should be considered "in" if is at or above the level of the slate then considered "out".

 

[pooler]

Not at all...

If the bottom of the called ball is below the level of the slate then it should be considered "in" if is at or above the level of the slate then considered "out".

Forgive me but that is not the case, such statement is very misleading...

Once more:

WPA Standarized Rules
DEFINITIONS:

8.3 Ball Pocketed (only the part which applies)
A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
........................................................................................
Regards

 

[bdorman]

Many thanks for your opinions and a gold star to pooler for actually providing an official ruling.

I called the balls pocketed. But not because I'm such a nice guy.

The eight was a few inches from corner pocket down the rail from the CB and it looked to me like the CB was hooked behind the cushion edge. Sure enough, he tried to shoot the CB down the rail but it immediately squirted out to the left.

If I play pool for another 100 years (unlikely) I doubt I'll ever see this again.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Forgive me but that is not the case, such statement is very misleading...

Once more:

WPA Standarized Rules
DEFINITIONS:

8.3 Ball Pocketed (only the part which applies)
A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
........................................................................................
Regards

Mr. pooler,

Just for discussion purposes, do those two rules when considered together make total sense? In one the shooter 'pockets' a ball all the way to the back &/or bottom of the pocket but is hit hard enough & just 'right' so that the pocket design rejects the ball & it is considered not pocketed.

On the other hand the shooter fails to either plan or execute properly to get the ball to fall to the bottom of the pocket but his failure to do so results in two balls jammed between the jaws in a manner that would require a neutral party to decide which ball 'might' fall if the other is removed to determine if the other ball 'might' fall, that ball is by rule is to be considered pocketed.

Those two(2) rules when considered together do not make total sense to me when fairness & skill are also considered.

I'm not looking to argue. I'm just expressing my opinion regarding the rules as written.

Best Regards,

 

[Icon of Sin]

Mr. pooler,

Just for discussion purposes, do those two rules when considered together make total sense? In one the shooter 'pockets' a ball all the way to the back &/or bottom of the pocket but is hit hard enough & just 'right' so that the pocket design rejects the ball & it is considered not pocketed.

On the other hand the shooter fails to either plan or execute properly to get the ball to fall to the bottom of the pocket but his failure to do so results in two balls jammed between the jaws in a manner that would require a neutral party to decide which ball 'might' fall if the other is removed to determine if the other ball 'might' fall, that ball is by rule is to be considered pocketed.

Those two(2) rules when considered together do not make total sense to me when fairness & skill are also considered.

I'm not looking to argue. I'm just expressing my opinion regarding the rules as written.

Best Regards,

They make complete sense...

A ball on the playing surface that is standing on its own is not pocketed.

(Whether that ball went in and back out or not or whether it hit the pocket of the pocket or not)

 

[foospot]

thanks

Forgive me but that is not the case, such statement is very misleading...

Once more:

WPA Standarized Rules
DEFINITIONS:

8.3 Ball Pocketed (only the part which applies)
A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
........................................................................................
Regards

I was expressing an opinion but thanks for knowledge.

 

[cuejo]

If you pull either ball and the other one falls, they are both pocketed

 

[Jobba786]

A ball is pocketed if removal of supporting ball will drop the ball into the pocket. I guess both balls here will drop into pocket.

Great done by Pooler pointing out the right WPA rules.

-Jon Birger

 

[ENGLISH!]

If you pull either ball and the other one falls, they are both pocketed

If they were jammed equally, how would one decide which ball to pull & how would one replace the pulled ball & how would one test that ball?

It can & I would guess that it has gotten complicated at times. That is why from a fairness stand point I would prefer the rule to say, no pocket & leave them to be shot again.

Just my $0.02 that probably is not worth $0.02.