Liar, Liar case on fire...

Ok well far be it for me to interrupt your fantasy of how the world should work according to Joe.

As far as honor goes, I don't see much honor in advocating the murder of some people in order to provide jobs for others. But it's clear that you and I don't share the same definition of honor. So you're right, a lesson on honor from you is lost on me.

The field is only level for you if it means the rest of the world is just like America? That's a bit arrogant I think. Well given that you ignore economics in about the same way that other people deny climate change it's not surprising that you have little understanding of history and culture that lead to the market being what it is.

No, you don't have a good or even basic understanding of the economics involved.

When it's required? As in when you deem it to be. That's very convenient Joe. Basically gives you the option of which confidences to keep and which to break. Is that also part of the honor you wish to teach me?

My understanding of economics is full. You and I see things from different sides of the bar. Not a problem. I know I don't view business as pure profit, I was not bought up that way, I was bought up to protect this country first. For the US to flourish, if someone else had to go, so be it. But that doesn't mean that they couldn't choose a different path, afterall that is the global answer in response to job loss. Find something else, well the US should not have that problem. I can understand someone else having a similar view involving their country.

I used to be more leniant in my view to this epidemic.

As far as confidentiality again, you know nothing of my arrangements.

JV
 
We'll have to agree to disagree because this circular arguement is tiresome. Had I known about Roy, there would have been no review.

I have no confidentiality agreements with anyone in this industry. If I did, they would be well protected.

JV

Well you didn't and a review happened. Contrary to your belief no one withheld it from you just to get your review. In hindsight I should have recommended that you not be asked to review the GTF case.

I believe that our products can stand up to anyone's inspection but had I not trusted that our personal differences were done with and that you would not continue to attack me with slurs and defamation I would have recommended to Roy and Bob that your opinion not be solicited.

As I said your opinion was not and is not crucial to the sales of GTF cases. In fact until just a week ago no one had even seen it for the past four years. We didn't use it on the GTF site, we didn't use it at all anywhere. It was a review in a thread that got a little play back in December of 2008. That thread had lain dormant until you had it erased yesterday. Well I assume you had it erased since it's no longer accessible.

In any event you did do the review and that's that. Again thanks for rating it based on the merits of the product rather than your personal anti-China platform.
 
My understanding of economics is full. You and I see things from different sides of the bar. Not a problem. I know I don't view business as pure profit, I was not bought up that way, I was bought up to protect this country first. For the US to flourish, if someone else had to go, so be it. But that doesn't mean that they couldn't choose a different path, afterall that is the global answer in response to job loss. Find something else, well the US should not have that problem. I can understand someone else having a similar view involving their country.

I used to be more leniant in my view to this epidemic.

As far as confidentiality again, you know nothing of my arrangements.

JV

If you truly believe in protecting the country first AND you do understand economics then you understand that trade is a way of ensuring peace between countries.

You are disrespecting the very principles that the USA was founded upon. And that is that every man is free to pursue life, liberty and happiness. For you to tell any other person that they are not patriotic if they choose to contract with people outside the United States to have work done is highly arrogant.

But on the other hand if people BRING money into the United States to purchase good from your then you are all for it.

And again you fail to understand history. How do you think that the USA became the world leader it is and the world's largest consumer?

Through innovation not through menial jobs. The buggy makers didn't just wander into the woods and die when cars came along. Farmers now get more yield per acre than at any time in history with less people dong the work.

The fact that we are forced to use our brains as much or more than our hands means that we Americans have become adept at creating business and livelihoods. Perhaps you would prefer a nation of people who are tied to a workstation in a factory doing the same thing day in and day out but I don't. I prefer to see a nation where people are adaptive and clever and figure out how to make their way in the world without being dependent on mama factory to employ them.

I prefer the type of world where you hire an illegal immigrant as you have done and that immigrant can turn around and become a citizen and create a business offering better service at a lower price than you and thus put you out of business. And you are then free to start another business, perhaps selling cues as a hobby and competing with professional sellers of cues.

I prefer that you not be restricted in your endeavors and are able to compete as a hobby with people who carry overhead and employees. If you cause them to lose business and have to fire someone then so be it, you were more competitive and used your lack of overhead to press that advantage.

Because that is exactly what you are doing when you compete as a self-described hobbyist against those who maintain actual businesses with actual employees and actual stores. You are using your low-expense position to take money away from legitimate business and from employees.

But what's good for you should not be allowed for others? That's not a very nice position to take is it?

In my opinion a level playing field Joe is the one we have. Anyone is FREE to compete however they want to.

Lastly, at last count, YOUR count by the way, there are something like 700ish ACTIVE cuemakers in the USA. Most of them are probably garage type operations where the cue maker has a day job. McDermott, Meucci, Viking, Pechauer and even Schmelke are still in business. There are several parts distributors dedicated to supplying them.

It seems as if the influx of lower priced cues from Asia and China in particular has not harmed the cue industry in the least when we look at the ACTUAL numbers of cue makers in the USA. Some would say that the flow of inexpensive cues actually whets the appetite for custom cues. Kind of a gateway drug into cue buying if you will.

But then that is probably the part of economic theory you don't want to consider.

In any event on the confidentiality topic you are certainly right, I know nothing of your arrangements and can only speak to your statements you have made here. I would sincerely hope that you keep confidences but that is only known to you and those who entrust things to you. I know that in my case you have never felt the need to keep anything said between us privately private. I once trusted you and now I don't so I consider everything I have ever talked with you about to be made public if you see a way to use it for your benefit. Cest Le Vie, we all make choices that turn out to be bad at times.

I do find it interesting that you criticize me for keeping my client's confidentiality though. But I feel that most of your criticism of me is not based in logic or truth but instead comes from your hatred of me. I also feel that I have caused this in you by continuing to dispel your arguments in the past in mean and sarcastic ways. If I were in your position I would probably hate me as well and use ever possible tactic to discredit me.

Again, it's just something I have to live with.
 
So today I bought a heat gun. The handheld version. Goes up to 500 degrees celsius or 932 degrees fahrenheit.

I tested it on the raw tube for about a minute and it melted the tube quickly. So I am thinking to test both flames and direct heat. I don't think that the heat gun will melt the leather so I need flames to burn it.

I wonder if I should buy one of those laser thermometers that can read the temperature instantly? Without places like Home Depot here getting things like an indoor/outdoor thermometer isn't easy. I like the indoor/outdoor ones because they have a sensor to check the interior temperature at the same time as the outside temp.

Anyway the day is coming when we will burn it.

Anyone want to send me a Balabushka to use? ;-)
 
Are you guys aspiring novelists or something. In the brilliant words of the great philosopher Beavis (or was it Butthead) "if I wanted to read, I'd go to school"
 
Hi, John.

Well, that was an eye opener =) I doubt that you'll ever be able to replicate what happened to the Fellini that started this moronic thread, but with the original burn and melting on the seamless side, and the damage it did to the case, you actually pushed the butt even closer to the portion you toasted in the video. I think it's safe to say that you "passed" =)

Chris
 
First some basic engineering principles data: All temperature in Fahrenheit

Heat gun temp at thermocouple: 900

Temperature of most flames: 2000
Glowing smolder before ignition (typical): 600

Melt temperature of certain plastics:

PVC (rigid or flex) 325
Nylon 500
Polypro 350

Ignition temp of most plastics is roughly 400-550

Ignition of most untreated leathers: 212

Wool or cotton (Fellini interior) 250

Not being privy to the polymer the case is actually made out of, one can assume it’s a relatively cheap to produce polymer, possible made up from regrind, or recycled materials. Could be a polypro, polyethylene, ABS, pvc who knows. I do not know, but this gives you an idea of the melting point in a processing machine.

Fellini case is .080/.085 thick at the cap and body of the case. The leather is roughly .070/.075 thick.

Looking at the Fellini pictured you can see that a few things were happening in the car when it was burning. Being placed on the seat it probably smoldered with the seat before getting introduced to flames.

There is little doubt that the fire was active for a good length of the case. You have burnt leather, AND melted / deformed plastic. In a smoldering condition it is safe to assume it was in some sort of heat, smoldering and flame for a good amount of time to achieve the damage done to it. Note the case has a huge deformity (bow) from being in the heat.

You could ascertain from the data that the case was smoldering before the leather ignited, and started deforming the plastic tube. There are indicators on the case that the plastic was starting to flame and had hit the ignition temperature. There is bubbling in the center of the tube where the flames were located.

Looking at the cue you can see that the hottest area was at the A-joint and this is where there is a glue joint on all short splice Balabushkas. The cue survived this with no buzz or weakening of the glue in that area or on the wrap.

If you think that pinpointing a heat gun is even remotely close to simulating a full on fire, and can sell it, than more power to you and I underestimated the degree of gullability in the masses.

BTW your confidence in using a 10 dollar cue is really the tell tale sign of the test. Its easy to throw a cue and case across the room that has a total value of 25.00.

JV
 
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The lack of a fire is somehow unsatisfying from the standpoint of the potential for visual drama (fire is more fun). Beyond that, a heat gun simply does not achieve the temperatures of a fire. Classiccues' post breaks it down to more specifics but it is simply true that the temperatures achieved would be somewhere around half at best.



Still a fun thing to see it torched...even if it wasn't exactly torched.




.
 
Well I can still burn it. I have more cases. But I think the point is made well enough.

I don't know about what sort of heat a fire generates. What I do know is that the 930 degrees heat gun put out enough to severely deformed the plastic.

And I fairly sure that fellini cases were not created to be fireproof. Neither were gtf cases.

My offer remains though Joe. At the upcoming SBE I will put any leather gtf in a fire alongside any fellini you provide for as long as you want. I will put a cue up to $2000 in value in the gtf if you match it with the fellini.

Or you can use any other similar brand as fellini as long as they use plastic tubes.

I am confident that our cases can hold up to the same stresses as any other similarly built case.

And the cues don't rattle. ;-)



www.jbcases.com
 
Jb... Please don't start making ur cases fireproof or bullet proof... Cause I'm sure u will ... It will kill small fish like me...
 
What a coincidence!

$(KGrHqF,!jMFC1tkFgqbBQ4INvG)YQ~~60_57.JPG


http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-HUE...088?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f20a0aaf8



:eek::eek::eek:


People are torching cues and cases everywhere! JB, you started a trend! :eek::eek:





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