Ivory Cracking question

NJS Custom Cues

NJS Custom Cues
Silver Member
I have installed numerous ivory joints and butt caps and never had a problem until now! A customer supplied the ivory for his cue from a from a "world renowned ivory guy" (who i don't know and haven't purchased from before) he got a better price. So far a ring and now a butt cap have cracked. I turned it and it was fine, went back 2 weeks later and now there is a crack in the butt cap. Everything was fine up until now and I have no idea why this is happening and it's getting costly. Any ideas on why this is happening would be appreciated and ways to prevent it as well.
Thanks,
Nick
 
Either it got too hot while you were cutting it or it was not old enough...JER
P.S. I never fit my Ivory pieces too tightly, I let the glue do the holding...
 
PMs cleared. I thought it could be age butt after talking to the customer who talked to ivory guy, it supposed to be 20-50 years aged, would that matter. Also he told him something about having a major change in temp. Now its been inside where there is no heat or air, so i don't think that should affect it but i was hoping you all might have some more ideas. It was not a tight fit as I do the same Jer. One more thing, could it have been due to not letting it sit after drilling it out, it sat for 2 weeks or so, but no longer.
 
I always drill a 3/8 hole the I bore it to size. It takes a little longer than drilling but a lot less heat on the ivory.
 
im not a cuemaker but why would you assume that??
.........................

You didn't ask me...but...if a customer is going to supply ivory for a cue, he is doing it to save himself money. For that, the customer has to accept the risk of the ivory failing. If it isn't the cuemaker's ivory and he isn't charging the premium for it, he can't guarantee it at his cost.
 
You didn't ask me...but...if a customer is going to supply ivory for a cue, he is doing it to save himself money. For that, the customer has to accept the risk of the ivory failing. If it isn't the cuemaker's ivory and he isn't charging the premium for it, he can't guarantee it at his cost.

Yep.
I will not use customer supplied materials unless there is some special reason and only for people I have dealt with before so I know who I am working with. It is because of situations like this that I don't do it anymore. Sounds like the builder will now be buying more ivory that he did not charge for in the first place. I do not know the details of their deal so I cant speak to that.
 
I have installed numerous ivory joints and butt caps and never had a problem until now! A customer supplied the ivory for his cue from a from a "world renowned ivory guy" (who i don't know and haven't purchased from before) he got a better price. So far a ring and now a butt cap have cracked. I turned it and it was fine, went back 2 weeks later and now there is a crack in the butt cap. Everything was fine up until now and I have no idea why this is happening and it's getting costly. Any ideas on why this is happening would be appreciated and ways to prevent it as well.
Thanks,
Nick

Some ivory justs want to crack - so far, I've had only 1 go, and it was only
a joint blank.
Gus Szam said he expected 1/4 of ivory to wind up as scrap.

Dale
 
You didn't ask me...but...if a customer is going to supply ivory for a cue, he is doing it to save himself money. For that, the customer has to accept the risk of the ivory failing. If it isn't the cuemaker's ivory and he isn't charging the premium for it, he can't guarantee it at his cost.

i mis- read chris's post
i thought he said the cuemaker would bear the cost
of course the customer would eat the cost
my bad...:o
sorry for my butting in....:o
 
Customer Send More Ivory

Tell your customer that you need more ivory since it was inferior. He can supply more or you must charge for your material.:)
I have installed numerous ivory joints and butt caps and never had a problem until now! A customer supplied the ivory for his cue from a from a "world renowned ivory guy" (who i don't know and haven't purchased from before) he got a better price. So far a ring and now a butt cap have cracked. I turned it and it was fine, went back 2 weeks later and now there is a crack in the butt cap. Everything was fine up until now and I have no idea why this is happening and it's getting costly. Any ideas on why this is happening would be appreciated and ways to prevent it as well.
Thanks,
Nick
 
Last edited:
i mis- read chris's post
i thought he said the cuemaker would bear the cost
of course the customer would eat the cost
my bad...:o
sorry for my butting in....:o

Huh? You weren't butting in. Misreads happen...
 
I find this topic very interesting and amazed that with all the intelligent and experienced cue makers out there that no one touched on the obvious. In addition, we’d also like to correct some misinformation as well.

The OP stated that he has installed many ivory joints and butts and never had a problem until now. Well, we have found that most ivory cracking upon installation or shortly thereafter is due to cockpit error. Many cue makers know how to treat ivory and therefore never crack or rarely crack it. This is evidenced by top tier cue makers in Florida, Connecticut, California, New York, Wisconsin and a host of other states who are all able to sell their cues which are laden with ivory to all other states without incidence. In-other-words, regardless where a cue maker is located, he can ship his ivory laden cue to all parts of the USA without it cracking. We have seen cues made in Florida shipped to the desert in California and cues made in the Desert shipped to Michigan in the winter and Florida in the summer all hold up and do well.

Additionally, we don’t know who this “world renowned ivory guy” may be but we’d be careful as someone may have purchased or may have accepted illegal ivory. We say this because in post #6 the OP stated that the buyer spoke to the “ivory guy” who stated that the ivory is “20 to 50 years aged”. That would mean 20 to 50 years since it was harvested and 20 years ago places the ivory at 1992 which is 3 year after the ban and therefore illegal. I cannot imagine any professional, knowledgeable and experienced ivory seller or ”ivory guy” stating that his ivory is 20 to 50 years aged and not know for certain. When we buy ivory, we get the dates when the ivory was harvested and if the seller cannot supply the date, then there is doubt when the tusk(s) may have entered the country. If the seller doesn’t know when the tusk(s) was or were harvested, they won’t know for certain when it was shipped into the USA and therefore we would have to pass on the offering. When buying ivory, you need to be careful either directly or indirectly who the "ivory guy" is becasue you don't want to do business with any "ivory guy" who doesn't know when his ivory was harvested. A statement of a 30 year spread between 20 to 50 years is ridiculous.

Additionally, I can’t understand how it can come to be that any ”ivory guy” can be ”world renowned” as no ivory seller can sell internationally so how on God’s green earth can they be world renowned!

It would be a safe assumption that the OP is located in the desert of California. He states, ” Also he told him something about having a major change in temp. Now its been inside where there is no heat or air, so i don't think that should affect it but i was hoping you all might have some more ideas”. After the OP “turned it” and working on it inside with “no heat and no air” could certainly cause it to dry out and then obviously crack either before or after installation. If you want to prevent ivory from cracking, drill or bore carefully, in small increments and thoroughly seal after each pass or cut. Never let exposed raw ivory sit in your home, office or shop without being sealed; especially in drier climates like the California desert. And we'd also like to add that leaving ivory in your shop in the Montana winter with no heat on is also a recipe for disaster.

Also, it was stated in this thread that, ”Gus Szamboti said he expected 1/4 of ivory to wind up as scrap”. I don’t enjoy reading generalities or perhaps information that is not quite complete. Now, did Szamboti make that statement based on finished material or from raw tusks? Well, I seriously doubt that he stated that comment regarding finished goods such as ivory ferrules, joints and butts because that would just be untrue. However, if he stated it regarding raw uncut ivory then he’d be pretty accurate as the waste factor is huge when processing tusks into usable ferrules, joints, butts and slabs. The waste factor can be as high as 40% when working from tusks. There is no waste factor when working with processed ivory assuming your ”ivory guy" knows what he’s doing.

Who should pay for the ivory? We have found in many instances, a lot of newer cue makers don’t stock ivory and so the cue owner buys it for them. In this case, the “cue maker” should be responsible. If the cue owner wants to save a few dollars because the cue maker is gouging, then the cue stick owner should find another cue maker to do the installation. If the cue maker states up front that he is not responsible, then that’s another matter. I can’t imagine any experienced cue maker not stocking at least a few ivory ferrules and at least one ivory joint and butt.

In conclusion, we’d like to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year!
 
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