Rule clarification?

ENGLISH!

ENGLISH!

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I'm in an individual hall league with a mix of rules most of which are BCA. Shooting last night, I shot a ball too hard & it jumped the table. We are playing cue ball fouls only. By BCA rules, the jumped ball does not get spotted but instead counts as a pocketed ball with loss of turn. I do not see this as a cue ball foul that should result in ball in hand. It seems to me to be the same as a not called pocketed ball. Should my opponent get ball in hand or simply shoot from where the cue ball stopped?

Thanks in advance,
 
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ball goes down and opponent gets ball in hand. Some newb did this to me not long ago when i was on the 8 ball. He put up a stink probably like you did :thumbup:
 
RG1 said:
ball goes down and opponent gets ball in hand. Some newb did this to me not long ago when i was on the 8 ball. He put up a stink probably like you did :thumbup:
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I didn't put up a stink, I just pleaded my case that normally it would be ball in hand but since we are playing only cue ball fouls it should not be. I did not foul the cue ball. I 'fouled' an object ball & we are not playing object ball 'fouls'. I just don't see ball in hand which is the penalty for a foul when I did not foul the cue ball. By declaring play to be only cue ball fouls only that over rides the normal foul of a jumped ball unless it is the cue ball. Is my logic faulty?
 
It has to be a foul because if it was not people would abuse the ability to shoot a ball off the table.

APA rules have ONLY cueball fouls, no other ball fouls EVER. But this is still a foul per there rules.
 
I agree with Tennessee that we would need to see the rules to determine the call. Somehow I doubt these rules are written anywhere other than a tournament director's head. We have some of that roun' here anyways.

For what it is worth...roun' here it is a ball in hand foul

Ken
 
I guess I'm too literal. When it says cue ball fouls only, I thought that meant only cue ball fouls, not oh yea but this type object ball foul too, unless it actually said that. Anyway, it's been made clear now! Next time I'll be more careful.

Thank for your opinions
 
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ENGLISH! said:
I guess I'm too literal. When it says cue ball fouls only, I thought that meant only cue ball fouls, not oh yea but this type object ball foul too, unless it actually said that. Anyway, it's been made clear now! Next time I'll be more careful.

Thank for your opinions
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Cue-ball fouls only doesn't make the other rules null and void.

Would you believe, ENGLISH, that an object ball off the table wasn't a foul
not all that long ago?
In 1991 the ball spotted in major tournaments.
I ran some qualifiers for a big one and I made it a rule that any ball off the
table was a foul, but in the tournament itself, it wasn't.

The pool world finally smartened up.
 
pt109 said:
Cue-ball fouls only doesn't make the other rules null and void.
Would you believe, ENGLISH, that an object ball off the table wasn't a foul
not all that long ago?
In 1991 the ball spotted in major tournaments.
I ran some qualifiers for a big one and I made it a rule that any ball off the
table was a foul, but in the tournament itself, it wasn't.

The pool world finally smartened up.
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PT,

I understand the why & wherefore of object ball fouls.

But... when it says 'cue ball fouls ONLY', all object ball fouls are also still in play?

What part of the 'English' language do I not understand?

Best Regards,
 
Eddie May said:
Can you think of any set of rules where this is not a foul? Cause I cannot.
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I did not say this may not be a foul but was responding to the OP's question:

"Should my opponent get ball in hand or simply shoot from where the cue ball stopped?"

But to answer your question: yes. If you come to my home and play pool tomorrow (and tomorrow only) it will be a rule. lol If you play in bars very often there are few real suprises.


Now if you play One Pocket, in that situation, you may not get ball in hand. WPA/BCA rules of One Pocket and the One Pocket.org rules vary in some situations. There is a very interesting thread on this in OnePocket.org.
 
Rick, you seem to be getting hung up here a little by considering it an object ball foul to knock an object ball off the table. If you stop thinking of that as an object ball foul this may be easier to swallow. This--driving any ball off the table--is simply a defined foul per the rules of the game, much as it is a defined foul to fail to strike one of your balls first in 8-ball. Cue ball vs. object ball fouls has nothing to do with it.
 
ENGLISH! said:
PT,

I understand the why & wherefore of object ball fouls.
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I don't think you do.

CB fouls simply refer to fouls based on physical interaction with the CB VS foul on all balls that include.....all other balls. ie , your shirts touches an OB during the shot. CB fouls only = no foul. All balls foul = foul.

Neither has any impact on the penalty imposed by committing a 'Foul'.

Foul = Ball in hand. (Usually)
 
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I understand that cue ball fouls only does not make all game specific rules null & void but it would certainly seem to imply that all object ball fouls are then not fouls. A jumped ball is a foul of an object ball. You would think that it should be spotted or considered pocketed either way by specific rule.

I understand under all fouls being played it would be a ball in hand foul. I guess playing cue ball fouls only seemed to imply that ALL object ball 'fouls' would not be 'fouls'. I quickly learned that that was not the case even though it was not spelled out.

No biggy. I was just wondering what the conscensous of thought would be.
 
ENGLISH! said:
I understand that cue ball fouls only does not make all game specific rules null & void but it would certainly seem to imply that all object ball fouls are then not fouls. A jumped ball is a foul of an object ball. You would think that it should be spotted or considered pocketed either way by specific rule. ...
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"Cue ball fouls only" is simply shorthand for saying that it is not a foul to accidentally touch/move/disturb a single object ball. It does not invalidate the other rules of the game.
 
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AtLarge said:
"Cue ball fouls only" is simply shorthand for saying that it is not a foul to accidentally touch/move/disturb a single object ball. It does not invalidate the other rules of the game.
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Mr. AtLarge,

As I said, I understand that. I guess my mind just took the 'short hand' a bit too far to include all object ball 'fouls' as non-fouls.:wink:

Best Regards,
 
And here's a nice "segue" to another current thread.

Under a "cue-ball-fouls-only" rule, if the shooter disturbs an OB and the disturbance is not called by the opponent or referee, I believe the rules obligate the shooter (the OB disturber) to "self report," i.e. to inform the opponent or referee that he thinks he has touched/moved/disturbed an OB.

Why? Because the consequences of the disturbance dictated by the rules cannot occur unless the disturbance is made known. The consequences (at least under some sets of rules) are that the opponent can leave that OB where it is, or restore it to its original position, or have the disturber restore it.

I.e., same logic as for actual fouls.
 
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Certainly you would have to read the written rules.

However, with that said, if there is no specific rule to balls leaving the table, then I agree with the OP.

If it is CB fouls only, and with the assumption that nothing specific is stated regarding balls leaving the table, then IMO that ball should be spotted and unless the called ball was also pocketed, the inning is over and the incoming player plays from where the CB is.

If the called ball was pocketed and another OB left the table, ( once again, absent of any specific rule) then that OB is spotted and the player continues.

I don't think there's anything new about that.
 
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