Compensating question

[Cdryden]

I was describing to my daughter how use the rails to manipulate the CB, explaining to her how the english effects the out going angle of the CB. It started me wondering how most of you use english when banking/kicking.

When you need to bank the CB at a natural angle do you use a center ball hit, do you aim just short of the spot you should hit and compensate with a little running english (inside english)? Do you compensate with power?

I tend to go with the simplest solution here and just hit it with a center ball hit. But I am surprised at how many don't, in fact most of the people I have watched seldom use a true center ball hit at all, in any type of shot.

How about you?

 

[Cornerman]

I was describing to my daughter how use the rails to manipulate the CB, explaining to her how the english effects the out going angle of the CB. It started me wondering how most of you use english when banking/kicking.

When you need to bank the CB at a natural angle do you use a center ball hit, do you aim just short of the spot you should hit and compensate with a little running english (inside english)? Do you compensate with power?

I tend to go with the simplest solution here and just hit it with a center ball hit. But I am surprised at how many don't, in fact most of the people I have watched seldom use a true center ball hit at all, in any type of shot.

How about you?

I have two distinct "go to" kicks. Both are based on angle in = angle out (even if that's not true).

One is the slow roll with natural follow.

The other is the more complex "stun with inside." And the inside is also "stun" off the cushion or the natural roll off the cushion. That should be confusing and befuddling enough! Sorry.

Freddie <~~~ and I use the rail gutter

 

[CreeDo]

The rail usually shortens kicks and banks, so they don't move on a perfect mirror angle...

if you use what I'd consider a "medium speed" center ball hit (even lag speed), your kick or bank will come up short.

That's why most players put a little low outside on banks, or a little high running on kicks. It makes the ball move along the predictable mirror angle.

There are some systems for banking and kicking that compensate by just hitting a different spot on the rail, using medium-to-firm center ball. But I don't like those, it's easier to calculate the mirror angle IMO than to have a mental table of adjustments like "I need to overcut this bank by a quarter diamond to compensate for 'rail bite'".

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I have two distinct "go to" kicks. Both are based on angle in = angle out (even if that's not true).

Me too - the same ones.

One is the slow roll with natural follow.

Aiming at the actual diamonds on the rails is often right for this kind of shot.

The other is the more complex "stun with inside." And the inside is also "stun" off the cushion or the natural roll off the cushion.

A sliding CB with "natural" running english makes an equal angle rebound (at the rail gutter) - very accurate if you hit the CB just right.*

pj
chgo

*Sideways tip offset = 2/5 distance to opposite CB contact point.

 

[scottjen26]

For kicks, I've found (like the others) that standardizing on 2 or 3 methods works well, of course adjusting from there when needed.

Assuming I find the correct geometric point:

- through the diamond with slow rolling ball
- through the diamond with minimal running english and medium speed
- When needed (and not often), medium speed center ball at the nose of the cushion opposite the diamond


For banking, there are various techniques and standard speeds used. Some like using center ball, some like to use running english, and a lot of bank pool players actually prefer using speed and some inside to straighten the rebound angle and make the effective pocket opening slightly larger. As with the kicks, it's good to experiment with all options and then decide on a few standard ones for recurring positions, adjusting from there when needed for table conditions, position, etc.

Scott

 

[bdorman]

I usually use center ball and adjust for angle with speed. I find that I use increased speed mostly when the OB is near the rail and I need to clear the CB out to avoid a double kiss.

The most common exception is when it's a cut-back bank (I define cut-back bank as one where the CB is "lower" than the OB -- see diagram). In that case I use a one tip of outside english (and maybe a little more cut angle) to lessen the CIT of the OB.

I'm a newbie and cut-back banks were driving me crazy; I'd have the angle just right but the OB would bank straight off the rail instead of traveling at its equal angle. WTF until helpful AZers told me what was happening. :thumbup:

 

[obclassicut]

The rail usually shortens kicks and banks, so they don't move on a perfect mirror angle...

if you use what I'd consider a "medium speed" center ball hit (even lag speed), your kick or bank will come up short.

That's why most players put a little low outside on banks, or a little high running on kicks. It makes the ball move along the predictable mirror angle.

There are some systems for banking and kicking that compensate by just hitting a different spot on the rail, using medium-to-firm center ball. But I don't like those, it's easier to calculate the mirror angle IMO than to have a mental table of adjustments like "I need to overcut this bank by a quarter diamond to compensate for 'rail bite'".

Very nice post, i completely agree:thumbup: