CTE and TOI

[sfleinen]

Heartily disagree Sean. Very much doubt that mot people here in this section could not easily make thirty balls with three break shots.

Actually, John, a 30-ball run is *two* worked break-shots, not three (the first breakshot sort of doesn't count, because it is, afterall, ball-in-hand). But I'll give you a pass in case you didn't have access to your calculator app while reading email, watching videos, and responding to AZB on your ebook-reader.

BTW, to be clear, that's not "2" or "3 consecutive ball-in-hand" to make 30 balls. The cue ball and break-ball placement for the first rack is of course ball-in-hand; after that, it's how you leave yourself after making the 14th ball in each rack (i.e. after you complete that first rack, there's no picking up that 14th ball and cue ball, and "replacing" it the way you like again -- you have to continue your run from that position).

I stand by my "dare" that most on here -- who play exclusively short-rack rotation (including you, John, whom I'll give the nod also plays some one pocket) -- will have a tough time getting into that third rack.

It has less to do with "aiming" or accuracy, and more to do with "focus longevity" beyond 9 balls. Most that play exclusively short-rack rotation can't think beyond 9 balls. The "break shot" in short-rack rotation games is a welcome "break" (or rest, if you will) that divvies-up the ball running into easily-digestible blocks.

We see it all the time in the 14.1 challenges, where exclusive short-rack rotation players will put a decent pattern together for the first half of the rack, and then the player loses his focus -- the cue ball goes crazy around the table for the rest of the rack, trying to get position on the remaining balls.

Speaking for myself I am just busting Lou's balls a little when I say he could benefit from CTE. That one video of him is not fair to his actual skill level which is better than what is shown.

I know you know that. I'm also a victim of that particular situation, where there's a video out there when I was dying of sinusitis and an excruciating headache, and I was in no shape to perform (the commentators even mention that in the video).

I think though that you underestimate the skill level present here. And it's also not a good idea to assume that because people don't spend time discussion straight pool that they don't know how to play nor have ever played.

When I see comments like that, *of course* I'm going to open my mouth and say something. Because certain pool games exercise certain skillsets, it's very convenient to hide behind the "making that ball is job number one for you" thing. The following segues nicely...

Regardless though, the point is still well made that no matter what the game is if the object is to make a ball in order to continue shooting then making the ball is the single most important priority. Doesn't matter what Lou was trying to do or not since he missed the easy shots.

That's very simplistic thinking. Sometimes the game you're playing requires more out of you than merely "just make this ball." You have to take risks to continue / be successful in these games. In Lou's case, he took his eye off the 6-ball, focusing instead on the contact with the 8-ball. (Watch that video segment again, and you can see the telltale signs of his "body english" as the cue ball contacts the 8-ball, and, of course, Lou then throwing his hands in the air after realizing he really pooched the 6-ball to begin with.) 14.1 is not just about making the ball. It's about connecting many successive shots together, and sometimes you have to extend out of your comfort zone to do more than "just make this ball." That's why I love this game, btw.

And this brings us back to aiming which is to say that when you are aimed correctly and you KNOW you are aimed correctly then you also know from that position what is possible and what is not possible. Not saying that this matters in the least as far as Lou's particular thought process was during those attempts but a miss is a miss and you don't get points for misses. Especially in a one made ball one point shoot till you miss format.

I will give you that there were shots that normally shouldn't be missed. You highlighted one earlier where you say that particular shot was a CTE/Pro-1 staple. It's a staple in 14.1, too, because that ball was in the standard break-ball position. But we're not automatons, and that's where this game -- 14.1 -- separates the men from the boys when it comes to "focus longevity."

The dare still stands.

This weekend I watched the Chinese 8 Ball Masters and I guarantee you these guys know more about bumping balls for position than a good percentage of straight pool players do. They don't have the luxury of being able to bump balls and choose many pockets. They absolutely had to play some amazingly precise position and due to the severity of the pockets they were forced by necessity to constantly bump balls into more favorable positions to even have a chance to pocket them.

These players had to have laser-like aiming as well as immaculate stroking. Hardly any wiggle room at all. The point I am making is that they didn't need to try and make things happen, they simply made them happen at will. Giving Lou a pass because he was trying to do something is not the right way to analyze it for the the exact reason that aiming accurately is the first and most important aspect of the shot when you absolutely must pocket the ball.

I agree with you about Chinese 8-ball and the accuracy required. I enjoyed watching those Chinese 8-ball streams on such tough tables, and in many ways, 8-ball can be harder than 14.1, because half the balls on the table are a no-no to you -- they're the opponents balls, and you have to navigate with precision around them, or bump them out of the way / tie-up the opponent.

But we'll just have to respectfully disagree on the tunnel vision aspect of the single object ball on the table. Sometimes the game itself dictates that you must do a lot more, and divide your focus onto something else.

I'm not giving Lou a pass, btw -- those misses I wouldn't/shouldn't expect from him. But I also don't take the "singularity" notion of pocketing the object ball in front of you as the only thing that matters. That's too simplistic a view.

In my opinion of course. And of course always willing to take any video challenge time permitting.

Oh, I think we all know that. Actually, those multi-hundred/-thousand dollar figures you constantly quote in your challenges -- those are Barton Bucks, right?

Jest messin' witcha,
-Sean

 

[sfleinen]

I prefer the genuine one of Champ playing, where he's banging balls into rails and proclaiming the genius of the system he's using.

And I believe that's the same one where he restricts himself to only 1/2 of the table -- never venturing beyond the blue-ball center spot -- averaging only a 30% "make" on shots.

Obviously, that's an issue where the shooter shouldn't have been trying to demonstrate the system under these conditions.

-Sean

 

[Gerry Williams]

Stan has been very supportive of my training with Pro One. He has replied to all emails in a very timely fashion (usually within hours). I love the system and wouldn't give it up for the world.

I have put about 200 hrs in and it gets better every day - and I wasn't a banger when I started either.

Visual aiming/perception is achieved through practice and repetition IMO. Stan often talks of the experience - it does come with hard work and time.

I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU. I HAVE THE "PRO ONE" DVD. I BOUGHT IT 20 MONTHS AGO. I KNOW THAT PRO ONE IS A GREAT SYSTEM. BUT THERE IS NO CLEAR INFO ON THE DVD. NO EXPLANATION AND NOT GOOD E-MAIL SUPPORT BY Mr SHUFFETT. LOTS OF "YES AND NO", "COULD BE", "MAYBE" ANSWERS TO THE PLAYER THAT WANTS TO LEARN. NOT TRYING TO OFFEND YOU Mr SHUFFETT. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

 

[runout4ever]

Pro one

Hello all. I am a new user on Az Billiards forums. I am also a new user to any type of aiming system. I have always just "played pool." I've noticed that sometimes I play well and sometimes I don't. I recently took Lessons from Pro player Stevie Moore and now good friend. What he taught me has changed the entire way I view the game of pool. Even though it is very tough to change I could very easily see this system is the WAY. THE ONLY WAY to play pool without guessing. I have met Stan Shuffet once in North Carolina but since I've started using the Knowlege he provided stevie, who taught me, I have not had a chance to speak to him. I would like to give him a bow of appreciation and a huge thanks for creating the language to change the game of pool from a guessing and "feel" game to a game determinded less by chance. I have always thought I stroked the cue straight but until I learned CTE pro one I didn't have a clue. THIS is the TRUTH people. Please give the system an open mind and a chance.

Thanks Mr. Stan, Jared McGee

 

[Slide Rule]

Jared

Welcome to AZ Billiards.

 

[lfigueroa]

to be honest ive never heard of any of these guys playing in any type tournament nor a gambling match. can they even run a rack of 6 ball? what constitutes ones credentials here. posting in a forum humpteen times? please give me the run down can they make a ball or do they just talk? what are theyre credentials? lol jus sayin.
i know in golf you have to be able to demonstrate or atleast be able to shoot a certain score. please enlighten me.

One of the things I love most about pool discussion boards, going back to RSB, is to hear about and discuss how players from divergent backgrounds find their way up the mountain that is playing pool. Players with backgrounds from carpentry, to plumbing, to academia, the military, students, medicine, cops, and robbers, and engineers all bring their unique perspective to the discussion and that is great. Because it’s the guys that have done something other than pool their entire lives that I can identify with.

One of the things I always find most rewarding is when I can describe my own travails and someone will post in return something like: you know, that really resonated with me or, that really rang true to me.

I like having pros around as much as the next guy. But what I have observed over the years is that most often the pro does not know how he does what he does anymore than prodigies or naturals at any other sport. And so, you end with guys trying to describe and explain how to play pool and often (usually) those explanation don’t resonate or are based in faulty logic, or can even be proven to be flat out wrong.

Th occasional pro that wanders in here should keep things in perspective: being a professional pool player just means you can poke balls into holes on a cloth covered table better than most. It does not mean you are the brightest bulb on the tree and right about everything. There are people who might not play pool as well as you but are smarter, more insightful, can argue more artfully, write better, and have accomplished far, far more in life than poking those balls around.



Lou Figueroa


 

[lfigueroa]

thanks John. im here to stay pal. FO SHO!

like you say haters gunna hate an playas gunna play. play on playa.

lol.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Rick it's very nice of you to give Lou the benefit of the doubt but he has been a rabid opponent of these methods for more than ten years....

John,

Thanks for the background. Why then are so many trying to convince Lou of the benefit of CTE. It seems that everyone is beating a very dead horse.

Lou seems to be one of a few detractors vs many more proponents. Would not a simple & polite 'your entitled to your opinion along with the other few that CTE seems to not fit in some way' be a more appropriate response than beating a dead horse. One size does not fit all & to each his own kind of thing. I realize that I could be wrong as I'm not specifically familiar with the history.

I too have had mixed results in my attempts at CTE but have atributted it to my limited knowledge & me employing it incorrectly. At least for the time being I am keeping an open mind as I am intrigue with it & will give it a good go when the time is right for me probably after the new DVD comes out.

I have been playing fairly well for 46 years but if one does not look to improve, one is being passed by someone that is. CJ's TOI is totally different than the way I have been playing but I certainly see its' potential as well.

If an old dog can't learn new tricks then the old dog won't be in the show.

I wish Lou would post some of what he specifically feels are deficiencies with CTE so an honest discussion can be had regarding them. I would rather read a current discussuion than the old stuff that apparently resolved nothing.

Thanks again John & Congratulations again on the birth of your beautiful Daughter Katrina & tell Karen from me, that she did a great job & deserves a reward from the Father.

Take Good Care &

There are many more guys that think the system is bogus but, as you can see (and as I can see by all the guys that I have on Ignore popping up with blocked posts), you risk the rabid sycophants by speaking up. Many guys don't want to deal with it.

Me? I developed thick skin back on RSB. Besides, I learned a long time ago you are nobody on the internet unless you have your very own pack of screaming monkeys ;-)

Lou Figueroa
somebody

 

[lfigueroa]

Hey folks:

I don't check the Aiming forum as much these days, other than to stay on top of Stan's product announcements, or whenever I see a lot of traction on certain threads.

But I wanted to interject here, because Lou is apparently catching a lot of flack for something that most of you short-rack rotation players may not even have a clue what he was trying to do. Other than Dave Segal (SpiderWebComm) who actually plays 14.1, I dare say MOST OF YOU here would have a hard time putting up a 30-ball run on a regulation 9-footer, nevermind a Diamond. And I put that dare to anyone here, especially those with the "in straight pool, you can shoot any ball you want, how hard can that be?" short-rack-rotation player myopic stance.

Only Lou can speak authoritatively here about what his thought process was at the time. But when watching that video, the first impression I had was that shot on the 6-ball was an intentional "bump" shot. Meaning, obviously Lou was trying to pocket the 6 in the side, but a secondary intention was to bump that 8-ball towards the side pocket as a key-ball to the ultimate break-ball. The 8-ball was in a funny spot (it did have a pocket, but it was a narrow window to get to it). It is a common technique in straight pool to solve these problem spots quickly, and even to bump balls to a better position (in this case, to a key-ball spot -- a ball hanging by the side pocket is a perfect key-ball for a break-ball to the side of the pack).

As mentioned in the 14.1 forum, on this past New Year's Day, I scored a 78-ball run, and much of the run included some bumping to break clusters and put balls in an optimum spot. I would venture to say that literally half of my break balls turned out to be "bumped" balls, because of the slowness of the table I was playing on, and having to deal with clusters. (Sometimes I need to shoot my break-ball off prematurely, because it was the only ball that offered me an angle to deal with a cluster.)

I realize that Lou's position on aiming systems and review of Stan's product does not sit well with most of the readership on this particular forum. But before we lambaste, 1.) know what you're looking at, and 2.) try playing some 14.1 and putting up your own numbers in video form.

Respectfully, and back to our regularly-scheduled programming,
-Sean

Thanks, Sean. As you know, getting up and being limited to three or four swings at a run, with video rolling, is tough. I ran a 110 at the pool hall a few weeks ago but that was after a couple of weeks of playing some 14.1. (I haven't run 100 since and probably will only do it once or twice or three times in 2013.) I don't have any idea of the dozens and dozens of tries it took me. But then I'm just an amateur player and not one of the superstars that like to poke fun.

Lou Figueroa

 

[stan shuffett]

Hello all. I am a new user on Az Billiards forums. I am also a new user to any type of aiming system. I have always just "played pool." I've noticed that sometimes I play well and sometimes I don't. I recently took Lessons from Pro player Stevie Moore and now good friend. What he taught me has changed the entire way I view the game of pool. Even though it is very tough to change I could very easily see this system is the WAY. THE ONLY WAY to play pool without guessing. I have met Stan Shuffet once in North Carolina but since I've started using the Knowlege he provided stevie, who taught me, I have not had a chance to speak to him. I would like to give him a bow of appreciation and a huge thanks for creating the language to change the game of pool from a guessing and "feel" game to a game determinded less by chance. I have always thought I stroked the cue straight but until I learned CTE pro one I didn't have a clue. THIS is the TRUTH people. Please give the system an open mind and a chance.

Thanks Mr. Stan, Jared McGee

Thanks for the great comments, Jared!
I appreciate your enthusiasm with CTE PRO ONE.
Welcome to AZ and congrats on your improving game!

Stan Shuffett

 

[CJ Wiley]

Thanks for spreading joy, happiness and good cheer to all the proletariat.

One of the things I love most about pool discussion boards, going back to RSB, is to hear about and discuss how players from divergent backgrounds find their way up the mountain that is playing pool. Players with backgrounds from carpentry, to plumbing, to academia, the military, students, medicine, cops, and robbers, and engineers all bring their unique perspective to the discussion and that is great. Because it’s the guys that have done something other than pool their entire lives that I can identify with.

One of the things I always find most rewarding is when I can describe my own travails and someone will post in return something like: you know, that really resonated with me or, that really rang true to me.

I like having pros around as much as the next guy. But what I have observed over the years is that most often the pro does not know how he does what he does anymore than prodigies or naturals at any other sport. And so, you end with guys trying to describe and explain how to play pool and often (usually) those explanation don’t resonate or are based in faulty logic, or can even be proven to be flat out wrong.

Th occasional pro that wanders in here should keep things in perspective: being a professional pool player just means you can poke balls into holes on a cloth covered table better than most. It does not mean you are the brightest bulb on the tree and right about everything. There are people who might not play pool as well as you but are smarter, more insightful, can argue more artfully, write better, and have accomplished far, far more in life than poking those balls around.



Lou Figueroa


You're right Lou, we all can only strive to be at your level of accomplishment, expertise and humility. You are like a beacon of light shining on the darkness of pool players, instuctors and the injustices therein.

How can you be so smart, insightful, and artful, yet remain so humble? What is your background, were you a priest, charity worker or a saint?

Thanks for spreading joy, happiness and good cheer to us Blessed proletariat.

 

[RG1]

There are many more guys that think the system is bogus but, as you can see (and as I can see by all the guys that I have on Ignore popping up with blocked posts), you risk the rabid sycophants by speaking up. Many guys don't want to deal with it.

Me? I developed thick skin back on RSB. Besides, I learned a long time ago you are nobody on the internet unless you have your very own pack of screaming monkeys ;-)

Lou Figueroa
somebody

If you have such thick skin like you say, why do you have people on ignore after you stir the pot Disruptive behavior disorder and bullying you may want to look into these.


Narcissistic Adult Bully: This type of adult bully is self-centered and does not share empathy with others. Additionally, there is little anxiety about consequences. He or she seems to feel good about him or herself, but in reality has a brittle narcissism that requires putting others down.

 

[pablocruz]

..........................................

 

[JB Cases]

Actually, John, a 30-ball run is *two* worked break-shots, not three (the first breakshot sort of doesn't count, because it is, afterall, ball-in-hand). But I'll give you a pass in case you didn't have access to your calculator app while reading email, watching videos, and responding to AZB on your ebook-reader.

I thought you were referring to the video where Lou took three break shots to make a cumulative score. Even so I still think that there are plenty of folks who post on the aiming system forum who could easily get through two racks and into a third.

BTW, to be clear, that's not "2" or "3 consecutive ball-in-hand" to make 30 balls. The cue ball and break-ball placement for the first rack is of course ball-in-hand; after that, it's how you leave yourself after making the 14th ball in each rack (i.e. after you complete that first rack, there's no picking up that 14th ball and cue ball, and "replacing" it the way you like again -- you have to continue your run from that position).

Thank you for the lesson on 14.1 basics, I had no idea.

I stand by my "dare" that most on here -- who play exclusively short-rack rotation (including you, John, whom I'll give the nod also plays some one pocket) -- will have a tough time getting into that third rack.

It wasn't a dare it was a generalization. One that I disagree with.

It has less to do with "aiming" or accuracy, and more to do with "focus longevity" beyond 9 balls. Most that play exclusively short-rack rotation can't think beyond 9 balls. The "break shot" in short-rack rotation games is a welcome "break" (or rest, if you will) that divvies-up the ball running into easily-digestible blocks.

Oh please. Now this is going to turn into a 14.1 vs. 9 ball debate? The same guys who can put up 3-5 packs of nine ball, that is running 27-45 balls in rotation are the ones you say can't run 30 in straight pool?

We see it all the time in the 14.1 challenges, where exclusive short-rack rotation players will put a decent pattern together for the first half of the rack, and then the player loses his focus -- the cue ball goes crazy around the table for the rest of the rack, trying to get position on the remaining balls.

And you have interviewed these players and know that they are "exclusively" 9 Ball players. And the pressure of getting up to play in a challenge format at one of these contests has nothing to do with it? After all in the very same contests we have also not seen the professionals and self-proclaimed professionals putting up the same scores that they have done or claimed to have done in less formal settings.

I know you know that. I'm also a victim of that particular situation, where there's a video out there when I was dying of sinusitis and an excruciating headache, and I was in no shape to perform (the commentators even mention that in the video).

Well for what it's worth I consider video to be the new way to hustle. Put a lot of video out there that shows you playing badly, talk about how great you are and how much you understand the game and line up the suckers willing to play you.

When I see comments like that, *of course* I'm going to open my mouth and say something. Because certain pool games exercise certain skillsets, it's very convenient to hide behind the "making that ball is job number one for you" thing. The following segues nicely...

It is number one. You don't get paid for missing. And especially in your beloved 14.1 where a miss could cost you the entire match. In the run out contest format a miss simply ends your attempt. No bonus points for how creative you were trying to be.

That's very simplistic thinking. Sometimes the game you're playing requires more out of you than merely "just make this ball." You have to take risks to continue / be successful in these games. In Lou's case, he took his eye off the 6-ball, focusing instead on the contact with the 8-ball. (Watch that video segment again, and you can see the telltale signs of his "body english" as the cue ball contacts the 8-ball, and, of course, Lou then throwing his hands in the air after realizing he really pooched the 6-ball to begin with.) 14.1 is not just about making the ball. It's about connecting many successive shots together, and sometimes you have to extend out of your comfort zone to do more than "just make this ball." That's why I love this game, btw.

Well then we will have to disagree because I feel that the game demands that the sequence be make the ball and get shape in that order repeated until the game is over. Because dong it out of sequence means you don't get to continue playing.

I will give you that there were shots that normally shouldn't be missed. You highlighted one earlier where you say that particular shot was a CTE/Pro-1 staple. It's a staple in 14.1, too, because that ball was in the standard break-ball position. But we're not automatons, and that's where this game -- 14.1 -- separates the men from the boys when it comes to "focus longevity."

So Lou is a boy?

The dare still stands.

What dare? To run more than 30 balls on a 9ft table? Ok, when I have the time to do it I will post a video. My memory card starts getting funny after about 30 minutes of recording so I run balls until the storage capacity is reached or I miss which will likely be sooner but more than 30 balls for sure.

I agree with you about Chinese 8-ball and the accuracy required. I enjoyed watching those Chinese 8-ball streams on such tough tables, and in many ways, 8-ball can be harder than 14.1, because half the balls on the table are a no-no to you -- they're the opponents balls, and you have to navigate with precision around them, or bump them out of the way / tie-up the opponent.

And balls in certain positions are simply too difficult to make so they must be bumped into favorable positions.

But we'll just have to respectfully disagree on the tunnel vision aspect of the single object ball on the table. Sometimes the game itself dictates that you must do a lot more, and divide your focus onto something else.

I am ok with disagreeing. I don't consider it to be tunnel vision but instead practicality that if you are playing a game where you have to make a shot to continue shooting that your focus be on making the shot first and foremost. As Willie said when asked about the secret to pool, "don't miss".

I'm not giving Lou a pass, btw -- those misses I wouldn't/shouldn't expect from him. But I also don't take the "singularity" notion of pocketing the object ball in front of you as the only thing that matters. That's too simplistic a view.

Perhaps it is a simple view but the plain fact is that missing ends the turn. So if you are in a run out contest your primary task is to make the ball you are shooting whether or not you achieve the secondary task of getting the result you wanted after making the shot.

Oh, I think we all know that. Actually, those multi-hundred/-thousand dollar figures you constantly quote in your challenges -- those are Barton Bucks, right?

Jest messin' witcha,
-Sean

When I offer a serious bet Sean then it's real bucks. When I say bet a million then it's hyperbole of course.

 

[BLADE]

CTE is not for everyone!

I guess it's time to give in. CTE is NOT for everyone.
I can understand If you're just to set in your ways to much to change your game for the better and not willing to lose a little of what game you don't have. I would probably say to hell with learning how to play again as well. Yes CTE is not for everyone.

This is how I see it. If you can see the CTE alignment, you can damn well learn CTE/Pro One. Are you willing to relearn when your 60 to 80 yrs young? Some say NO. What else do you have to do if you really want to play the best pool of your life. How could you not change what your doing if the best in the world are already doing it. I guess you can just keep knocking it. Lol! Some life that is! Doesn't make much sense or should I say intelligence.

I may not be the smartest, artful in my writing, or even accomplished very much in life. Well, I ain't done!

Real CTE is and will remain the best way to aim in pool. From A pool player that runs out for a living and loves it. Pool IS my life and will be until I have no more life in me. I will always look for ways to improve my game.

 

[AtLarge]

... How could you not change what your doing if the best in the world are already doing it. ...

To whom are you referring with this statement?

 

[Mikjary]

To whom are you referring with this statement?

I would guess it is to whomever reads it and knows it applies to them. Prolly more than a few, but less than a million.

Best,
Mike

 

[JB Cases]

There are many more guys that think the system is bogus but, as you can see (and as I can see by all the guys that I have on Ignore popping up with blocked posts), you risk the rabid sycophants by speaking up. Many guys don't want to deal with it.

Me? I developed thick skin back on RSB. Besides, I learned a long time ago you are nobody on the internet unless you have your very own pack of screaming monkeys ;-)

Lou Figueroa
somebody

And in contrast there are many more who know CTE works and they don't want to join in and be attacked by guys like you. Anyone who wants can go back to RSB and see how you spoke to system proponents back then. Thick skin? No Lou you simply acted like a bully then hurling insults constantly. It's not any different now except that you are being a touch more tactful due to the need to obey the rules on AZB.

What I find interesting is that when a professional agrees with your position then you have no problem touting them. Remember your comments telling us how you claim to have talked to numerous "bonafide champions" that you wouldn't name who all agreed with your stance?

But when those who support aiming systems provide testimonials from bonafide champions whose names ARE known you dismiss them as ignorant people who have accomplished nothing outside of pool.

As for thinking you are "somebody" because you able to create a group of people who disagree with you don't think that this is a big deal. It's easy, take the contrary position and insult the people on the other side. You play that game at a world class level.

So on one hand you like to use "bonafide champions" to support your position but you put down the bonafide champions who disagree with you. But one thing remains constant, the pros you deride and put down as being able to play a little better than most actually play a lot better than most and on a personal level way way way better than you .

And that's the real crux of it. When it comes to pool you are a banger, I am a banger, Pat Johnson is a banger. The disparity between you and pros of Stevie's class is huge but no one wants to admit that. Sure you are good enough to get a little race to three off a pro once in while but you are absolutely dead money in every professional class event.

And the subject of this forum is pool playing. So it doesn't really matter what you or I have done outside pool except as being interesting conversation. Of course those who have competed at pro levels in other sports have a perspective that translates to pool but otherwise if you spent a career doing press releases in the Air Force or doing flips in diving shows doesn't translate to being able to tell a professional pool player that you know as much or more than them about how to play pool.

The funny part though is that aside from the professionals who have done nothing other than play pool there are many players who play world class and hold down day jobs and some who have successful businesses. So where does that leave you? Just a banger like the rest of us because the fact is that there are people who did much more than you who could spot you the rainbow and steal your money without breaking a sweat.

You choose to continue to say that CTE is bogus and although you have refrained from continuing to say Stan is a fraud you are saying it by extension. Instead of simply calling him and having a conversation to find out if he is a good and genuine man you choose to get your kicks by denigrating him on a forum. Do you find this to be honorable?

Every single argument you have put forth against CTE/ProOne has been successfully rebutted with actual examples. So again what are you left with? Just a banger's opinion on a forum. Which is fine but don't equate the fact that you hung out around great players to raising yourself to their level.

You're a nice guy in person. I enjoyed hanging out with you when we had a few minutes at DCC. I enjoyed beating you with Hal Houle's system at your game of one pocket. Someday we might be able to match up for a little money at one pocket and I'd like to give you the opportunity to prove that my one victory wasn't just a fluke. I will even reiterate my offer to spot you a ball for $100 a game and am willing to lose five games that way without adjusting.

But the way you act on here towards Stan is not honorable. It's really not and I feel it's beneath you. In my eyes this goes beyond not liking systems. You go out of your way to insult this man and it's just not cool.

And lastly to get back to what you say about people who think CTE is bogus but don't want to speak up. Well, I don't believe that there are a lot of folks who do actually share your opinion on this. So all we can go on is what people have actually said on this forum. And what they have said in the overwhelming majority of testimonials has been that they are very happy with CTE/ProOne and what it's done for their game.

 

[AtLarge]

I would guess it is to whomever reads it and knows it applies to them. Prolly more than a few, but less than a million. View attachment 255641

Best,
Mike

What I'm wondering is whether Stevie is saying that "the best in the world" are using CTE/Pro-One. If so, I'm asking who he is talking about. We know of several pros who use it, but maybe the list is longer.

 

[Mikjary]

What I'm wondering is whether Stevie is saying that "the best in the world" are using CTE/Pro-One. If so, I'm asking who he is talking about. We know of several pros who use it, but maybe the list is longer.

That would be interesting to hear about.

Best,
Mike