What should you really do?

[krupa]

With all due respect to Vahmurka and his 3-rail kick shot, even if I saw the shot I would never attempt it in a game.

So my question is what should you really do? (I've copied and attached the layout from the previous thread.)

The options I see are taking an intentional foul by freezing the cue ball on the three (though that might open up a shot on the nine) or sending the cue ball up-table off the three, trying to freeze it on the head rail.

Are there any other options?

 

[Bob Jewett]

You could also thin the 9 and go to the cushion and back to freeze on the 13. As long as you don't leave a direct shot on the 15 you are more or less OK.

If you thin the 3 and go up-table, I'd try to go to the side rail first and leave the cue ball frozen on the end rail and straight in on the 7.

 

[sjm]

I like thinning the nine and coming back toward the thirteen.

 

[14-1StraightMan]

Coming off that 9 ball off the rail & back over to the 13 takes a touch. Very hard to do but if it works out, it is a great safe. Very nice Bob, I did not even see that safe until you pointed it out. If the cue ball is not touching or blocked by the 13. There might be a window for the 5-12 combo or that 15 ball.
I would thin the cue ball off the 3 ball attempting to get the cue ball on the top rail and straight on that 7 ball. Makeable shot but hope that they might get a little nervous and hang it.

 

[sjm]

Coming off that 9 ball off the rail & back over to the 13 takes a touch. Very hard to do but if it works out, it is a great safe. Very nice Bob, I did not even see that safe until you pointed it out. If the cue ball is not touching or blocked by the 13. There might be a window for the 5-12 combo or that 15 ball.
I would thin the cue ball off the 3 ball attempting to get the cue ball on the top rail and straight on that 7 ball. Makeable shot but hope that they might get a little nervous and hang it.

All about who you are playing. Actually, both of these safeties require touch, but if you come up a couple of few inches short of the thirteen while grazing the nine, you still won't leave a shot. If you don't freeze the cue ball to the top rail, the shot you leave is too easy for most opponents. After all, the seven can be cinched with guaranteed shape onto the next shot.

I see merit in both of these choices, but would only concede the seven to a fairly weak oponent.

I like your post. The defensive tactic of conceding a difficult shot when you are in a fix is an important one, and is, in my opinion, underutilized.

Without getting too deep into it here, you can also take a scratch to try to change the defensive angle off the nine. If you don't trade up, you can still concede a long tough shot.

 

[DunnM1]

Look at the 3-11-6 off the 12 in the corner. It might be on, if not you play safe. Take the cue off the 3 one rail with the cue ball and try to leave it on the middle diamond on the head rail. And if you can not do that just shot the cue ball straight up there and take the foul!

 

[sjm]

Take the cue off the 3 one rail with the cue ball and try to leave it on the middle diamond on the head rail.

I saw Hall of Famer Joe Balsis try this against Irving Crane in a similar position over thirty years ago. Though the idea had some merit, Joe missed his speed and sold the game out.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Or, how about shooting the cue ball almost due South and leave it on the cushion? I think there is a spot there that leaves neither combo nor bank -- about 2.5 diamonds from the corner pocket.

 

[sjm]

Or, how about shooting the cue ball almost due South and leave it on the cushion? I think there is a spot there that leaves neither combo nor bank -- about 2.5 diamonds from the corner pocket.

Assuming you mean take a scratch to that position, opponent will put you back against the nine.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Assuming you mean take a scratch to that position, opponent will put you back against the nine.

Maybe. He has to have pretty good touch and depending where and how hard he lands by the nine he might leave a good response. If I'm going to take a foul I'd rather not leave him a little tap foul.

 

[sjm]

Maybe. He has to have pretty good touch and depending where and how hard he lands by the nine he might leave a good response. If I'm going to take a foul I'd rather not leave him a little tap foul.

Right on, Bob. There are several fouls here that give opponent an opportunity to go wrong. I just saw them as a bit beyond the scope of this thread.

Hope to see you at Derby City.

Stu

 

[Vahmurka]

Look at the 3-11-6 off the 12 in the corner. It might be on, if not you play safe

the ball does not pass to the corner, the cuetable layout is somewhat inaccurate in certain areas because there was only one line-up I put accurately. Here is the photo from initial thread, with a close-up added


Of course the thread I started had nothing to do with real play, hence was the thread title (it was not "Find the right shot" or even "How would you play this", I specified it intentionally). And certainly I was thinking then, what would be the way to play safe from there.
Sometimes the best move in a tough situation is to place the cue ball to the same spot it sits, thus forcing your opponent to solve. But not always possible with a good hit. My very first idea was thinning the 9 to drive the cue ball to the long rail from where 15 would not be visible (13 is safe anyway). But from first posts I learnt 5-12 is on, and probably that selection would either leave 5 open for the combo, or it could be made through the 9.
Thus my choice would be, like Danny D. likes to say, take two scratches before leaving him a shot, and leave him long. My preference would be leaving long 2, but as the balls are positioned there might not be such a possibility. Then the long 7. But having said that I would try to put the whitey on my scratches in such a fashion that I have a thin shot, say, on red 3 to take my plan about leaving the 2. Can't tell why I like it better than 7, just my feeling I can't explain.

<------ not a straight pool player by any means but still willing to learn a bit

 

[sjm]

... My preference would be leaving long 2, but as the balls are positioned there might not be such a possibility....

<------ not a straight pool player by any means but still willing to learn a bit

Have to disagree that you are not a straight pool player. Your post is well reasoned and you've probed ambitiously for an aceptable escape here.

I would have to agree that conceding the two is one of numerous solid approaches here, although, as you suggest, it appears unachievable. Keep in mind that if you start with an intentional foul here, your tactic of conceding the two becomes available to your opponent. If you'd be satisfied to shoot the two, then the foul is OK, but if you can't live with that possibility, a foul is a really bad idea here.

I suspect the reason you'd rather concede the two over the seven is that there is more shape to play with the two. If the seven is pocketed by opponent, they are off to the races for certain.

Nice analysis and, as you can see, situations like this are far from routine and the number of tactical approaches can be daunting, but experience is the real teacher. Once you have faced and dealt with enough situations like this one, your tactical IQ will be where you want it.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... My preference would be leaving long 2, but as the balls are positioned there might not be such a possibility. ...

You can leave just the 2, but it takes a technique many players haven't developed. Play thin on the 3 ball with a half-masse shot and a lot of right to take the cue ball to the lower long rail and then park on the end rail. There is a chance that the shot will move a ball (the 11) to block the 2.

 

[Rumplestiltzkin]

Here is another idea..

Jack up your cue with an open bridge about 25-30 degrees and shoot the 3 ball.. Your aiming straight at the face of the 7 ball and using 2 tips of stun/low-right english. The 3 hits the 11 whichcaroms off the 6 and using the correct speed ties up the 7/11.. the 6 grazes the 14,12 blocking the shot on the 2.. The 5 inches over to complicate the 9 and at the correct speed the cue ball travels into the rail 1 and 1/2 diamonds toward the headstring and because of the reverse the spin kills the ball on the end rail in the kitchen 1 diamond from the lower right pocket on this diagram..

 

[Rumplestiltzkin]

Or..

Just nudge the cue ball between the 9 and 3.. if you manage to freeze on both it will pay off.. if not your opponent is stuck where you were and your on 1 foul.. Either way it's not a "sellout".

 

[14-1StraightMan]

Heading Towards Three Fouls.....

Just nudge the cue ball between the 9 and 3.. if you manage to freeze on both it will pay off.. if not your opponent is stuck where you were and your on 1 foul.. Either way it's not a "sellout".

OK..... let's say you intentionally foul between the 3 ball & the 9 ball. There is no shot. Your opponent than just touches the cue ball with out moving it. They are on one foul but you are on a foul first...... Now, what do you do?

 

[sjm]

OK..... let's say you intentionally foul between the 3 ball & the 9 ball. There is no shot. Your opponent than just touches the cue ball with out moving it. They are on one foul but you are on a foul first...... Now, what do you do?

I don't like this play, as there's little chance opponent will go wrong here, but if things developed as described, the only play that makes sense to me is to send the cue ball near the top right hand corner, conceding the shot on the two ball.

 

[14-1StraightMan]

I don't like this play, as there's little chance opponent will go wrong here, but if things developed as described, the only play that makes sense to me is to send the cue ball near the top right hand corner, conceding the shot on the two ball.

Yes, I agree with you. It still leaves your opponent a shot but not a easy one at all. With the added pressure of thinking that they are going into the cluster with the cue ball. I like the straight in shot on the 7 ball. Only b/c if they do not follow it enough, then there is no shot on the 2 ball in the side or the 15 or the 1 down table. Another thing that might help: If it is late into the match and my opponent has a high score count. I would take two intentional fouls to cause him to take two. Then put him on the top rail hoping between the pressure of the long straight in shot & the thought of the 3rd foul might lead to a miss. Really this applies to anytime during the score, unless you really do not want to lose the two points yourself. Always good to put the most pressure on your opponent as possible.

 

[sjm]

Yes, I agree with you. It still leaves your opponent a shot but not a easy one at all. With the added pressure of thinking that they are going into the cluster with the cue ball. I like the straight in shot on the 7 ball. Only b/c if they do not follow it enough, then there is no shot on the 2 ball in the side or the 15 or the 1 down table. Another thing that might help: If it is late into the match and my opponent has a high score count. I would take two intentional fouls to cause him to take two. Then put him on the top rail hoping between the pressure of the long straight in shot & the thought of the 3rd foul might lead to a miss. Really this applies to anytime during the score, unless you really do not want to lose the two points yourself. Always good to put the most pressure on your opponent as possible.

Nice post. As I noted in post 13, though, take one foul and, if your opponent so desires, it will probably be you shooting the long shot. Accounting for opponent's stylistic preferences and skills is critical here.