Which Starrett indicator is best for cuebuilding?

cueporn

cueporn

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Looking for opinions on which model Starrett indicator to get for cuebuilding.

The 811-5CZ has an indicator that can be tilted fro horizontal to vertical and works anywhere over the 90 degree range. This measures in .0005 increments, + or- .0015 with a total range of .0030". Is that too fine a measurement to be useful?

There are other models with the standard striaght line indicator, increments of .001" and ranges of .5-1.0". Wouldn't any measurement over.25 would be alot for cuebuilding ?
Are the +/- dials with the 0 at the top and .050 at the bottom better? The 81-141 has a 0.25 range and .001 increments. Would this would be plenty of range?

The last model that interests me is the 196 set with rear indicator and all the setups. Would be pretty good from what it looks like.
 
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I won't waste my money on a Starret. You pay all that money for a white and red case.


An indicator from China or Twain will do the same as a Starret. I'd say you wouldn't need anything that measures anything less than .001".


Check out the indicators on Ebay just to get an idea.
 
Wait a minute!

The China and Tiawan indicators are just fine if you planing on being a cuemaker/builder for a week! Now, if your in it for the long haul, you need quality tools. That does'nt always mean starrett. Mititoyo, Fowler, and others make quality tools as well. I personally don't care for starrett indicators, they seem to have alot of "sticktion" in them, meaning they "hang up" under pressure and return. Ive owned a few starrett last word indicators, I have an 850A1Z with deep hole attachment, and a couple other rear plunger starretts. They stay in the box most of the time. The best indicator ive used (a little pricey) is, Interapid. I have three of them and love 'em, the test indicators work in both directions and are extremely accurate, I have one that measures in .0001", that may be a little overkill for cuemakers but, wew! check some runout! Now poolguy is right about one thing, go to the bay! You can get some good deals there and pawn shops, used quality tools work very well. and when someone buys quality tools they usually take good care of them. Who would buy a $175 indicator and treat it like crap? Now a $25 one might get dropped once in a while. I have said this before on here about tools, "there is a reason mechanics buy snapon, matco, mac, ect. There livelihood depends on there tools. I'm not a cuemaker, so I'm not sure just how precise your tools need to be (your tolerances) but quality is a must in all professions. I'm a tool and diemaker by trade, and have spent a crapload of $$ on tools over the years. If my wife knew how much, she would have a stroke.
Anyway, take my comments with a grain of salt, I don't know cuemaking, but I do know tools.:wink:
,Tom
 
POOLGODBEWITHME said:
The China and Tiawan indicators are just fine if you planing on being a cuemaker/builder for a week! Now, if your in it for the long haul, you need quality tools. That does'nt always mean starrett. Mititoyo, Fowler, and others make quality tools as well. I personally don't care for starrett indicators, they seem to have alot of "sticktion" in them, meaning they "hang up" under pressure and return. Ive owned a few starrett last word indicators, I have an 850A1Z with deep hole attachment, and a couple other rear plunger starretts. They stay in the box most of the time. The best indicator ive used (a little pricey) is, Interapid. I have three of them and love 'em, the test indicators work in both directions and are extremely accurate, I have one that measures in .0001", that may be a little overkill for cuemakers but, wew! check some runout! Now poolguy is right about one thing, go to the bay! You can get some good deals there and pawn shops, used quality tools work very well. and when someone buys quality tools they usually take good care of them. Who would buy a $175 indicator and treat it like crap? Now a $25 one might get dropped once in a while. I have said this before on here about tools, "there is a reason mechanics buy snapon, matco, mac, ect. There livelihood depends on there tools. I'm not a cuemaker, so I'm not sure just how precise your tools need to be (your tolerances) but quality is a must in all professions. I'm a tool and diemaker by trade, and have spent a crapload of $$ on tools over the years. If my wife knew how much, she would have a stroke.
Anyway, take my comments with a grain of salt, I don't know cuemaking, but I do know tools.:wink:
,Tom
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I have a couple of HF indicators that I have used for 2 years and they are just fine.... about $12 each.

Funny.... I have an expensive Starrett indicator that is sticky just like you say. I have cleaned it with alcohol and in a week. it's sticky again..... go figure...

Kim
 
In my mind you need not one but 2 indicators,an AGD with 1" of travel and .001 steps,and a TEST indicator,one with .030-.060 worth of travel and either .0005 or .001 travel.

The test indicator is for testing things that can't be done with a plunger-rod style,like using it to check the inside of a drilled hole,indicating in your tailstock,etc.

You can certainly get away with the economy versions on both.

It's back to the old adage about getting what you pay for from there,and any old-timer in most fields will tell you never skimp on tools,especially ones you use for measuring and for anything where precision is required.

I have an OLD Starrett Last Word set,that I was handed down by my late grandfather. I haven't used it for years because it's mounting system is just not very flexible,and I haven't adapted it.

For test indicators,I also have a pair of Interapids he bought me when I was in machine shop school,one with .0005 steps and .060 travel,and one with .0001 ticks and .004 travel.

The total cost on these two with the clamping set and shipping was 560.00. I could use either of these with a Mighty Mag base or Indicol every way possible on a lathe or mill. I also have a vintage Mitotoyo magnetic base with 1/2 stainless rods that came from him as well and 3 different Noga bases that I bought myself.

I have a Fowler X-Test that is their version/copy of the Interapid,and I can't tell much of a difference other than the name on the face. With the clamping/mounting set thrown in for free and shipping,it was well under 1/2 what just one of the Interapids costs new,much less the 40.00 clamping set Travers offers for them,which I already got when he bought the pair.

I also have an old Mitotoyo AGD with the big dial and 1.0000 travel,and a 15.00 Harbor Freight digital AGD.

When I set up to do tournaments or precision work here at home,I use the X-Test,or the Mitotoyo AGD because I can't seem to keep strong enough batteries in the digital,or it's bad. Now,I can't remember the last time I changed the battery in my Mitotoyo calipers,and have left them on for a month at a time :D.

This same idea can be applied to calipers and micrometers too,cheaper can work if you get a good one (and learn to use it) but generally a step or 2 better than rock bottom will work better and last longer.

Another piece of advice,batteries die all the time esp when you least expect it,so ones with a mechanical dial are preferable unless you keep spare batteries. Tommy D.
 

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whammo57 said:
I have a couple of HF indicators that I have used for 2 years and they are just fine.... about $12 each.

Funny.... I have an expensive Starrett indicator that is sticky just like you say. I have cleaned it with alcohol and in a week. it's sticky again..... go figure...

Kim
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Yep. I don't know why starrett indicators do that. the 850 that I mentioned above does it also, Ive had it sent out to fix twice and it still does it. And that is the most expensive indicator I own. (The deep hole attachment is the only reason I keep it). Ive got some old besttest and brown and sharps that I got at a garage sale that work awsome as well. Other than indicators, I love starrett tools, I probably have around $5000 just in starretts. (I kinda have a tool addiction)
I'm not saying the HF stuff won't work, it just won't last. Have you sent them out to be qualified in the two years since purchase? My guess is they won't hold a candle to my old brown and sharp, and its older than I am. Like I said before, I'm not a cuemaker so I don't know your tolerances, but I deal in +or- .0002" everyday and have to have (qualified) tools to hold the dimensions I'm given. HAGD:thumbup:
,Tom
 
Buy an Interapid

Buy a used Interapid Dial Test Indicator, like a model 74 or 312B, or a Brown and Sharpe BesTest on ebay, and never buy another indicator for the rest of your life. Both of these are better indicators than a Starrett. Now, this is not the same for other tools. The only Combo Square I would ever own is a Starrett. I've never been a fan of the small face "Last Word" Starrett's. I am a precision machinist with 25 years experience, my indicators when they are out of my box are sitting in an environment with oily, gritty air, and I've never had any problems with any tools that are properly maintained, cleaned often and protected from damage. The average jerky that does not respect his tools has perpetual problems with them. You don't drive your car 30K between oil changes. So, buy quality tools, maintain them and you will own them for the rest of your life. Then someone else will probably own them for the rest of their lives. NO WAY will you find some HF Junk last a couple lifetimes, not even possible! Those are the facts!

The biggest thing with an indicator is to respect it. It is a VERY FINELY crafted piece of precision measuring equipment. You can't be banging it around, dumping liquids on it, saw dust doesn't seem to have much effect on it, I keep mine blown off regularly though.

Don't buy any precision tools from Harbor Freight, it's garbage. PERIOD. End of story. People that buy precision tools at Harbor Freight are the same people that buy Chinese lathes, drove Yugo's in the 80's, buy sand paper at HF, always looking for a cheaper way. Regardless of whether or not someone has used a junk indicator for 2 years or not. I'll bet they've never had it calibrated. They are not even remotely similar pieces of measuring equipment as compared to a quality tool manufacturer.

The moral of the story is, buy quality once, take care of it and own it for a lifetime. Buy garbage, it doesn't matter if you take care of it or not, you WILL be buying more, probably sooner than later.

It just doesn't make sense that someone would be trying to build a precision piece of pool equipment (cue), with a tool that is anything but precision. Is it not commonly known that anyone that will pay good money for a cue is going to want that cue to be accurate, straight, the points will need to line up, the inlays accurate ? The cue builder will want to demand as high of a price as the market will allow him to charge. If that's the case, WHY BUY JUNK TOOLS ? How much sense does that make ? From lathes, to saws, to a set of calipers, whatever it is. WHY ? The product you are building is expected that it last for a very long time, maybe a lifetime ? But you use tools that you need to replace once a year or every couple years ?

That's ridiculous at best! Buy Quality!
 
Thanks

I appreciate the responses. I was thinking of getting a 1 inch range and a .030 range indicator for different tasks. Looking at getting a 196 set and 811-5CZ.

I already quit HF, buying junk never saves money.
 
cueporn said:
I appreciate the responses. I was thinking of getting a 1 inch range and a .030 range indicator for different tasks. Looking at getting a 196 set and 811-5CZ.

I already quit HF, buying junk never saves money.
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Don't buy them yet, let me look at my extras at work after MLK day and maybe I can make you a good deal. I might have an extra federal 1 inch travel, I can't remember but I've got a bunch of indicators.
,Tom
 
I like the finger type like the Inter rapid above. I do have one of those Starret DTI with the tilt face, but do not use it very much, and have never used it in cue making.My 1st choice is a Tesa DTI from Switzerland with the long 36 mm stylus and the smaller bezel(25mm diameter .5mm range .01 resolution) . These have a very low stylus pressure on the work piece and do not mark the wood or any parts being made in cue making.
I also like that it will reach inside down a bored hole to check for concentricity.They are not real cheap, but mine is over 20 years old and is still in good order.
Girod is another Swiss brand of good DTI's .
I only use plunger type DTI when the using it to measure or compare lengths greater than the .4 mm or so. The plunger type are good for carriage monitoring ect, but I find that most have too strong a spring and will leave marks on things when used for checking concentricity.My plunger clock is a Peacock Brand from Japan and has 1-1/4 of travel that I use on the Z axis.

Another very use tool is the Noga type single point locking DTI holder and stands. They are far more than the copies, but I am yet to find a copy that is as good. They save a lot of set up time and have a very useful fine adjustment on them as well. Mine are also 20 years old and going strong, maybe older, I loose track of time and when I brought gear.

When we look at a company to make parts etc for us, what we look for in the workshop is the quality and condition of the measure equipment being used in the day to day manufacturing. If they have junk or abused looking gear, we just move on.

I have seen to many things made on good gear but is junk because people do not know how to measure and keep control of what they are making.
hope this is of some help to you.
 
There are 3 types I know of:

Finger-type - Like the Pic above. I really like Mitutoyo. I do not like the B&S Last Word. Too small and generally a pain. If you don't change the probe (contact point) they are fairly accurate. Like Neil, I use this for just about everything.

Plunger Type - Like the Federal. Very accurate but I find them a bit unwieldy on a lathe. Good for determining length stops on the carriage and cross slide. I've used these mostly for inspection where I set them to height using Jo Blocs and then check the part heights with it. Federal is OK but so are Peacock and many others, even a cheap one should do you well. I have a couple reading in increments of .001, .0005 and .0001

Co-Axial - Like the finger type but the needle and internals rotate while the dial stays stationary. The nice thing about this is you don't need to twist your head around or use a mirror when indicating center. Great for on a milling machine. NOTE: They generally come with several probes but if you change the lengths they won't give you a true reading but still good for finding center. If you don't know what I mean think about if you used a 2" probe then switched to a 20" probe.... obviously its going to take much more movement to register using the 20" probe.

*
 
bruppert said:
There are 3 types I know of:

Finger-type - Like the Pic above. I really like Mitutoyo. I do not like the B&S Last Word. Too small and generally a pain. If you don't change the probe (contact point) they are fairly accurate. Like Neil, I use this for just about everything.

Plunger Type - Like the Federal. Very accurate but I find them a bit unwieldy on a lathe. Good for determining length stops on the carriage and cross slide. I've used these mostly for inspection where I set them to height using Jo Blocs and then check the part heights with it. Federal is OK but so are Peacock and many others, even a cheap one should do you well. I have a couple reading in increments of .001, .0005 and .0001

Co-Axial - Like the finger type but the needle and internals rotate while the dial stays stationary. The nice thing about this is you don't need to twist your head around or use a mirror when indicating center. Great for on a milling machine. NOTE: They generally come with several probes but if you change the lengths they won't give you a true reading but still good for finding center. If you don't know what I mean think about if you used a 2" probe then switched to a 20" probe.... obviously its going to take much more movement to register using the 20" probe.

*
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Last Word is made by Starret. Like nearly everyone else, I found the action sticky on the new one I bought locally, right out of the box. I returned it promptly..
 
pescadoman said:
Last Word is made by Starret. Like nearly everyone else, I found the action sticky on the new one I bought locally, right out of the box. I returned it promptly..
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My bad, you're right. I have a B&S Indicator and it still works well after 30+ years. All my Mics are B&S but I don't care for their Dial Calipers either.
 
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