Easy out to win a game of 8 ball.

madmiller

madmiller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I went to shoot some 8 ball tonight with my friend Mike and also to try the video camera on my new phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FVsfg0f988&feature=youtu.be
Mike was getting cocky and thought that he would beat me easy. He left himself bad on the 8 ball and miscued while trying to bank it. So I had an easy runout. Mike is talking in the back trying to throw me off my focus while I made an easy 4 balls and won the game.
Any input on my game is welcome. I am a beginner, so anything that I am doing wrong with my stroke, stance, whatever , please let me know. I am trying to improve my game.
 
I have found over the years a closed bridge and speed control has helped me. Seems you really hit hard with low English (on the second shot and 8-ball) which to me seems counter productive.

Also a tip for your buddy: rather than roll off the top of the cue ball, jack the back of the cue up to get some better cue ball control. From where he was on the rail on the cue ball, he was already going to miscue. This is where I would stress using a closed bridge to keep the cue stick from hopping off the top of the cue ball causing a miscue.

It was only an observantion, if it works for you, carry on.

Good run by the way. :)
 
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Thanks! I am trying to learn how to shoot softer and the speed control is the weakest part of my game, but I am working on it. Believe me, if you saw me a couple years ago , when I picked up the cue for the first time, I was really pounding those balls in.
As far as the bridge, I tried the closed bridge many times, but for some reason I cannot shoot consistently when using it. The only time I use the closed bridge is when I break.
 
A guy on my 9-ball league team is the same way with the bridge, he can't plag with a closed one but he's an APA 5 consistent in 9-ball.

The speed thing comes with time or drills. Go to a pool hall away from a barbox and try shooting at different distances as slow as you can. Ideally you want just enough to drop your object ball unless you are going for some long distance shape.

It took me awhile to get used to it too, once I did.... Totally changed my game.
 
desertshark said:
Also a tip for your buddy: rather than roll off the top of the cue ball, jack the back of the cue up to get some better cue ball control. From where he was on the rail on the cue ball, he was already going to miscue. This is where I would stress using a closed bridge to keep the cue stick from hopping off the top of the cue ball causing a miscue.
Click to expand...

FWIW: I find it easier to chalk up and stroke level at a cue ball on the rail. Jacking up - in an attempt to make solid contact with the 'center' of the cue ball - tends to amplify cue ball squirt if you are not careful.

I also find it easier to eliminate the usual pause in my backstroke; instead, just follow through on the last one and make contact with the cue.

Closed bridge/rail bridge definitely helps, regardless.
 
You are one-stroking everything in. Take at least 3 or 4 warmupstrokes before you shoot the ball.

gr. Dave
 
From what I can see of your fundmentals (mostly just one arm) they look pretty good. One thing you seem to do well is hit pretty firm at or near the center of the cue ball. I dunno if that's intentional or just instinct, but it's an important skill as you get better. A lot of players accidentally hit a little off when they try for center.

You look like you play a little fast'n'loose. Maybe cuz you're just playing around with buddies. But generally you probably want to take a practice stroke or two. You ever hear the expression "he 2-stroked it"? Meaning the player just did a quick and casual 2 practice swings before shooting?

You sort of do one slow 'lineup stroke'...you're only "1-stroking" it. On a small bar table you can get away with that. But on a 9 footer you will need a little more time to fine tune your aim... so you might do at least 3 practice swings to really aim carefully. On a big table, shots like that 8 ball will be much more missable.

Good out, keep practicing.
 
madmiller said:
I went to shoot some 8 ball tonight with my friend Mike and also to try the video camera on my new phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FVsfg0f988&feature=youtu.be
Mike was getting cocky and thought that he would beat me easy. He left himself bad on the 8 ball and miscued while trying to bank it. So I had an easy runout. Mike is talking in the back trying to throw me off my focus while I made an easy 4 balls and won the game.
Any input on my game is welcome. I am a beginner, so anything that I am doing wrong with my stroke, stance, whatever , please let me know. I am trying to improve my game.
Click to expand...

I know you were asking about stroke, but what I noticed was some questionable shot/speed selection. It looked like you have enough faith in your shot-making that you just hit the balls and assumed you'd get a reasonable shot. In this case it worked, but over the long run, that can cost you.

1. First shot, on the 11 (I think). You let the CB go into the 15, but there was no need for that--it introduces uncertainty and risk. Instead, just use a little bit of draw and hit the 11 as fully as you can so that the CB goes straight to the left for perfect shape on the 15. Then it's an easy shot on the 6 in the corner, followed by an easy 8 in the side.

2. Second shot. If you had played the first shot my way, you'd just be hitting the 15 in from about 6" away and making sure to not leave the CB on the rail and to leave an angle for the 14. But from where you were, you shot the 14 first. For this one, I think you made the CB travel much more than you had to. This creates risk of tapping the 8 or scratching in the corner. And where you left the CB is a missable shot on a big table.

Instead of your shot on the 14, I would shoot it with a little draw and maybe a hair of left. This would bring the cue out towards the center of the table: you want it to stop around the middle of the table. Then you have an easy shot on the 15 followed by the 8 in the side.

3. Third shot. I probably would have hit it a little firm with center ball, so the CB goes into the rail and towards the foot spot. Your way doesn't seem bad to me; it's pretty certain to leave you some kind of reasonable shot on the 8.

Good luck!

P.S. The general principles to remember from this are (1) don't create added risk and uncertainty (i.e., don't let the cueball contact other balls unless you need it to) and (2) don't create extra work (don't send the cue ball up and down the table when you don't have to; don't try shape paths that require a lot of precision when there's an easier path).
 
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CreeDo said:
From what I can see of your fundmentals (mostly just one arm) they look pretty good. One thing you seem to do well is hit pretty firm at or near the center of the cue ball. I dunno if that's intentional or just instinct, but it's an important skill as you get better. A lot of players accidentally hit a little off when they try for center.

You look like you play a little fast'n'loose. Maybe cuz you're just playing around with buddies. But generally you probably want to take a practice stroke or two. You ever hear the expression "he 2-stroked it"? Meaning the player just did a quick and casual 2 practice swings before shooting?

You sort of do one slow 'lineup stroke'...you're only "1-stroking" it. On a small bar table you can get away with that. But on a 9 footer you will need a little more time to fine tune your aim... so you might do at least 3 practice swings to really aim carefully. On a big table, shots like that 8 ball will be much more missable.

Good out, keep practicing.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input. I rarely get an access to a pool table and practice at home on a dresser which I made into an improvised pool table (covered it with used table cloth), where I practice my stroke using just a cue ball.
When I get a chance, I always go to the pool hall, I really understand the importance on shooting on a big table. After watching the video I realized that on a tight nine-footer that 8 ball shot wouldn't go.
As far as one-stroking it, when I started to play, I watched different people do many different practice strokes and some of them don't do them at all. So after watching a lot of videos of my pool and snooker heroes like Ronnie O'Sullivan where he "one-stroking" 147 breaks on a snooker table and Peter Fischer where he puts together 100-200 straight pool runs all on a "one-stroke", I gave up pre-strokes.
Also I try to read all that CJ Wiley writes here and he mentioned somewhere that it's better to shoot without warm-up strokes, so I do all of my warm-up stuff during my PSR, before I get down on the shot.
And actually I noticed that my game went up quite a bit since I got rid of the warm-ups.
 
Cory in DC said:
I know you were asking about stroke, but what I noticed was some questionable shot/speed selection. It looked like you have enough faith in your shot-making that you just hit the balls and assumed you'd get a reasonable shot. In this case it worked, but over the long run, that can cost you.

1. First shot, on the 11 (I think). You let the CB go into the 15, but there was no need for that--it introduces uncertainty and risk. Instead, just use a little bit of draw and hit the 11 as fully as you can so that the CB goes straight to the left for perfect shape on the 15. Then it's an easy shot on the 6 in the corner, followed by an easy 8 in the side.

2. Second shot. If you had played the first shot my way, you'd just be hitting the 15 in from about 6" away and making sure to not leave the CB on the rail and to leave an angle for the 14. But from where you were, you shot the 14 first. For this one, I think you made the CB travel much more than you had to. This creates risk of tapping the 8 or scratching in the corner. And where you left the CB is a missable shot on a big table.

Instead of your shot on the 14, I would shoot it with a little draw and maybe a hair of left. This would bring the cue out towards the center of the table: you want it to stop around the middle of the table. Then you have an easy shot on the 15 followed by the 8 in the side.

3. Third shot. I probably would have hit it a little firm with center ball, so the CB goes into the rail and towards the foot spot. Your way doesn't seem bad to me; it's pretty certain to leave you some kind of reasonable shot on the 8.

Good luck!

P.S. The general principles to remember from this are (1) don't create added risk and uncertainty (i.e., don't let the cueball contact other balls unless you need it to) and (2) don't create extra work (don't send the cue ball up and down the table when you don't have to; don't try shape paths that require a lot of precision when there's an easier path).
Click to expand...

Thanks!
Now I see what I did wrong on the first shot, If I drew the ball a little bit, I would have a lot easier out. Also now I noticed that I hit almost all the shots too hard.
The reason I shot the second and third ball like that, mostly was because I did realize it was a bar box with huge pockets and that 8(which maybe tough on the 9 footer) to me looks like a hanger. When I get a chance to practice, all I do is practice long straight in or nearly straight in shots.
I will try to make my runouts without unnecessary risks, like you said, when I sent the cue ball up and down the table.
And as far as putting " a little bit of left", I try to stay away from any side english, especially outside on my shots. I am trying to shoot everything with either center or TOI.
Thanks again, I could use all the advice to improve.
 
madmiller said:
Thanks!
Now I see what I did wrong on the first shot, If I drew the ball a little bit, I would have a lot easier out. Also now I noticed that I hit almost all the shots too hard.
The reason I shot the second and third ball like that, mostly was because I did realize it was a bar box with huge pockets and that 8(which maybe tough on the 9 footer) to me looks like a hanger. When I get a chance to practice, all I do is practice long straight in or nearly straight in shots.
I will try to make my runouts without unnecessary risks, like you said, when I sent the cue ball up and down the table.
And as far as putting " a little bit of left", I try to stay away from any side english, especially outside on my shots. I am trying to shoot everything with either center or TOI.
Thanks again, I could use all the advice to improve.
Click to expand...

Listen to Cory in DC. He gave you a lot of good pointers. I agree that you're shooting too fast.

It looked to me like you're just playing to pocket the ball and not really trying to park the cue ball a desired location. You need to practice to pin point the location of the cue ball. As you're learning to do this you will find that your pin point location, in the beginning, will be very large but as you work hard at it you're cue ball placement will start to get more refined.

Pocketing the object ball is important but cue ball movement and placement is just as important. Your eight ball should have been positioned for the side pocket and you had the opportunity to do that. Keep in mind that the speed of the shot will different on most shots. What's is ideal is just enough speed to pocket the ball and enough for what you want the cue ball to do, any more speed is unnecessary. Post another video in about a year and let us see some improvement.
 
Hey again Madmiller. Not to sound like a nag but you should rethink the practice stroke thing!
You can still shoot fast, just swing the stick a few times first to make sure it swings in the right direction.

Even ronnie will give a little extra time on shots that need it... for example when he's on the rail, like you were on your 14.

I dunno about the snooker world but pretty much 0 pool pros one-stroke their shots. Wiley uses 'em too. >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeDEFlnguDY

I think you'll hold back your game if you get caught up in the idea of trying to shoot like Ronnie, he's got a 1 in a million gift. Most of us weren't born with it. His style is not something any instructor would teach to his student.
 
Madmiller, the previous posters gave a lot of good tips. Here are some thoughts.

Pattern:
I agree with the poster who said put a little draw on the first shot, then 11 in the corner. But from there I'd probably hit the 14 to get shape for the 8 in the same corner you made it in. Shooting into the sides from an angle can be difficult. In general it's easier to play shape for corner pockets. When playing shape for the sides it's easy to over or under run your position (see The 8 Ball Bible, by Givens).

Open vs closed bridge:
I used a closed bridge exclusively for many years. Then a few summers ago I attended Randy G's poolschool and he preached the merits of an open bridge. I switched immediately to open and am glad I did. With an open bridge you can sight all the way down the cue. Also, as your cue or hands get dirty, there is less friction with an open bridge. Randy recommends open bridge for center ball or follow shots, and closed bridge for shots where you need to use a lot of draw (because you are hitting hard and may need the control).

Hit Speed:
I agree you should shoot softer. I know when I shoot that hard it introduces aiming errors and rattles the ball more often in the jaws.

But here is a counter argument to throw in the hopper. Bar tables tend to have dirty balls, which results in a lot of Contact Induced Throw (CIT). As Dr. Dave shows in one of the articles on his web site, CIT is maximum when hitting a slow stun shot with a half ball hit, although CIT occurs on other cut shots too. Randy G told me that if the balls are dirty he tends to shoot a little harder, which reduces CIT (Dr. Dave shows this too). If you are always playing in the same bar you are probably already automatically adjusting for this CIT effect, so if you shoot softer it's possible you'll need to slightly adjust for increased CIT. Geez, this game sounds harder then it should be...
 
madmiller said:
I went to shoot some 8 ball tonight with my friend Mike and also to try the video camera on my new phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FVsfg0f988&feature=youtu.be
Mike was getting cocky and thought that he would beat me easy. He left himself bad on the 8 ball and miscued while trying to bank it. So I had an easy runout. Mike is talking in the back trying to throw me off my focus while I made an easy 4 balls and won the game.
Any input on my game is welcome. I am a beginner, so anything that I am doing wrong with my stroke, stance, whatever , please let me know. I am trying to improve my game.
Click to expand...

Hello Mad,
I liked your run out. I might have done some of it a little different, but that is not you doing it the way I would have finished the run out. Keep up the good work on your game. It will improve!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
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jeffj2h said:
Madmiller, the previous posters gave a lot of good tips. Here are some thoughts.

Pattern:
I agree with the poster who said put a little draw on the first shot, then 11 in the corner. But from there I'd probably hit the 14 to get shape for the 8 in the same corner you made it in. Shooting into the sides from an angle can be difficult. In general it's easier to play shape for corner pockets. When playing shape for the sides it's easy to over or under run your position (see The 8 Ball Bible, by Givens).
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that strongly, but on a Valley bar box, the sides are bigger than the corners! But you want to hit it a little easy, so with Madmiller's default stroke you might be right.
 
Cory in DC said:
I don't disagree that strongly, but on a Valley bar box, the sides are bigger than the corners! But you want to hit it a little easy, so with Madmiller's default stroke you might be right.
Click to expand...
Wow! I thought that my stroke was the weakest part of my game, that's why I work on it all the time and that's why I posted the video to see any flaws.
But it turns out that it might be the strongest element of my game, if I understand all the comments correctly.
 
I'm no master of this game, but you travel too much with cb. position for you last stripe was great but unnecessary. With some draw you could have rolled closer to the OB and with a stop shot you would have had position for the 8. But great run indeed.
 
Cory in DC said:
I don't disagree that strongly, but on a Valley bar box, the sides are bigger than the corners! But you want to hit it a little easy, so with Madmiller's default stroke you might be right.
Click to expand...

Did you mean that the other way around? On a default Valley, the sides are smaller.
It's pretty much the only table that's backwards like this. All others have larger sides than corners, probably because the rail cannot funnel balls into the pocket.

http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/poc/130108/595r1/6266fmd_27.jpeg

Pretty much whenever possible, corner shots are preferred for these.
 
I never measured the size of the pockets, I see no difference in which pocket to shoot the ball if I can see the shot, I usually make it.
But there's something about Valley that makes it "one of a kind". When I started practicing , I started to come up with different drills and exercises on my own. So ... I made this one up - I put a cue ball almost frozen to the short rail a diamond away from the corner pocket, move it a little bit closer towards the corner pocket, and then shoot it in the side pocket on the same side. I was able to do it consistently only on a Valley box in only one bar. Anywhere else I go, I couldn't make it, come close, but it doesn't drop, no matter how soft or precise I hit it.
It's a very tough shot, I never seen anybody try to make it, but I guess nobody tried it either:) The speed control and feeling of the cue ball has to be just perfect to drop that cue ball in.
 
CreeDo said:
Did you mean that the other way around? On a default Valley, the sides are smaller.
It's pretty much the only table that's backwards like this. All others have larger sides than corners, probably because the rail cannot funnel balls into the pocket.

http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/poc/130108/595r1/6266fmd_27.jpeg

Pretty much whenever possible, corner shots are preferred for these.
Click to expand...

You're probably right, I haven't shot on a valley in some time. Still, anyone who is hesitant about the sides should probably practice them--on the linked out, shaping for the side seems like the better play, the shape area is larger.
 
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