You never answered my question. I've been waiting on pins and needles since November. WTF?!?!?! Who's running this show anyway?
When does BONUS BALL START?!?!?!?!?!
- Thread starter cleary
- Start date
You never answered my question. I've been waiting on pins and needles since November. WTF?!?!?! Who's running this show anyway?
Cleary, you asked me when Bonus Ball is going to start? It started a few years ago and is gathering steam day by day.
The WPBL is Larry Chiborak's league and not mine so I can't answer you when his construction problems will be cleared up up. I own Bonus Ball the game and not any shares in the WPBL. I just hope he succeeds and that the rest of the world gets to see these top professionals playing in a well structured and competitive format. I believe that Nathan will deliver a great product as he definitely is the best in North America at producing pool events and Larry has given him the very best equipment to achieve this.
We took the game to the US Nine Ball Open and demonstrated it to the professional players. They loved the concept of such a strategic game! That is why the statement "the game plays so good" basically blankets the game! What other survey is needed but to take the game to the professionals for their opinions of the game.
Francisco Bustamante, Corey Deuel, Darren Appleton, Johnny Archer and so many others have told me this is an awesome game so I believe that eventually it will take hold and become accepted in this forum as a legititmate game that has merit, which it does. My short time in Vegas has seen me build a following of players that absolutely love this game! I have a market already and don't know why some players on these forums are so against another pool game, that the professionals are obviously enjoying!
In closing, I love all the other pools games supported here on Azbilliards. I have promoted many eight ball tournaments and you will see me playing at the Rio in the BCA's. Feel free to come over and tell me why you feel the professional players are wrong about this new and strategic game.
The WPBL is Larry Chiborak's league and not mine so I can't answer you when his construction problems will be cleared up up. I own Bonus Ball the game and not any shares in the WPBL. I just hope he succeeds and that the rest of the world gets to see these top professionals playing in a well structured and competitive format. I believe that Nathan will deliver a great product as he definitely is the best in North America at producing pool events and Larry has given him the very best equipment to achieve this.
We took the game to the US Nine Ball Open and demonstrated it to the professional players. They loved the concept of such a strategic game! That is why the statement "the game plays so good" basically blankets the game! What other survey is needed but to take the game to the professionals for their opinions of the game.
Francisco Bustamante, Corey Deuel, Darren Appleton, Johnny Archer and so many others have told me this is an awesome game so I believe that eventually it will take hold and become accepted in this forum as a legititmate game that has merit, which it does. My short time in Vegas has seen me build a following of players that absolutely love this game! I have a market already and don't know why some players on these forums are so against another pool game, that the professionals are obviously enjoying!
In closing, I love all the other pools games supported here on Azbilliards. I have promoted many eight ball tournaments and you will see me playing at the Rio in the BCA's. Feel free to come over and tell me why you feel the professional players are wrong about this new and strategic game.
.....you think pro pool players liking a pool game reflects what the average viewer will like?
Pro pool players are not the people who you are asking to pay to watch this. Saying "well pros love the game" isn't going to sell subscriptions.
Pro pool players are not the people who you are asking to pay to watch this. Saying "well pros love the game" isn't going to sell subscriptions.
Well, I am not a pro player and I have many players at my level loving this game based on the merits of the game. It is a well structured game that is fun to play. It certainly does help me that the top players like playing Bonus Ball. My game set sales improve every time we do something with the professional players.
I don't enjoy running out another player as much as I don't enjoy getting run out in a game. I hate dry breaking. At my level you usually lose. I don't find that fun. I hate losing by scratching as much as I hate winning by scratching. I wanted a game with more substance than what I was playing but I wanted it to be fairly fast as compared to a strategic game as one pocket. bonus Ball is that game.
Of course watching ten minutes of a promotional video of something new will do nothing for most people. I have only been able to watch half an hour of a one pocket match before turning it off. That does not mean it is a stupid game or a gimmick game. Larry is hoping that people will tune in to cheer on their favourite team and will eventually quit caring what billiard game that is being played and enjoy the entertainment value of team concepts in sport. I understand that thinking and applaud him for his efforts and financial venture into bring us a professional league. So far he has seen nothing but grief but seems determined to continue on.
The concept Larry is hoping to sell is a league concept of top billiard players playing a game more suited to these top professional players. Watching the traditional games has not worked out for the game of billiards. They are fun to play at certain levels. everyone enjoys eight ball when the beging playing because it is easy to play. The industry has very few fans outside of players. Other sports have many fans that don't really play the game. Bonus Ball is simply billiards but structured to challenge these top players. I believe the game does that. I can't imagine watching Tiger Woods playing on Par 3's all day! Bonus Ball is a Par 5.
Many azbilliard fans may not like it but Bonus Ball is here to stay. If your happy with Eight Ball or Nine Ball or whatever ball...that's great. i'm only preaching to players that want to improve their games and who want to play a game with more substance, that is fast paced. They are listening to me. They are happy with what I am saying!
I don't enjoy running out another player as much as I don't enjoy getting run out in a game. I hate dry breaking. At my level you usually lose. I don't find that fun. I hate losing by scratching as much as I hate winning by scratching. I wanted a game with more substance than what I was playing but I wanted it to be fairly fast as compared to a strategic game as one pocket. bonus Ball is that game.
Of course watching ten minutes of a promotional video of something new will do nothing for most people. I have only been able to watch half an hour of a one pocket match before turning it off. That does not mean it is a stupid game or a gimmick game. Larry is hoping that people will tune in to cheer on their favourite team and will eventually quit caring what billiard game that is being played and enjoy the entertainment value of team concepts in sport. I understand that thinking and applaud him for his efforts and financial venture into bring us a professional league. So far he has seen nothing but grief but seems determined to continue on.
The concept Larry is hoping to sell is a league concept of top billiard players playing a game more suited to these top professional players. Watching the traditional games has not worked out for the game of billiards. They are fun to play at certain levels. everyone enjoys eight ball when the beging playing because it is easy to play. The industry has very few fans outside of players. Other sports have many fans that don't really play the game. Bonus Ball is simply billiards but structured to challenge these top players. I believe the game does that. I can't imagine watching Tiger Woods playing on Par 3's all day! Bonus Ball is a Par 5.
Many azbilliard fans may not like it but Bonus Ball is here to stay. If your happy with Eight Ball or Nine Ball or whatever ball...that's great. i'm only preaching to players that want to improve their games and who want to play a game with more substance, that is fast paced. They are listening to me. They are happy with what I am saying!
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"Bonus ball is here to stay....." What? Its not even "here" yet. It was November, then January, then February.....now its TBD. I could walk into a random pool hall and ask everyone in there "what is bonus ball?" and likely only the few very serious players who keep up with this site or pool in general would know.
So.......how many "target viewers" was this idea shown to? What age and gender group is the target audience? What percentage of the focus groups approved of the concept? What percentage of the focus group said they would pay the asking price to see this product? What is the margin of error for your focus group?
Obviously these are rhetorical questions(unless they actually did this, which I would be surprised).
I personally am fairly neutral on the game. The point I'm trying to make is this is the kind of thing that has happened over and over in pool. Someone thinks they have a great idea, starts sinking money in it, gets all the die hard fans/players interested only to flop. This could be avoided simply by following successful business plans that are out there. This has just about every sign of past failures in pool, except now you're doing it with a game most people haven't heard of.
I truly hope I am wrong here, but most of the time when people just start touting "this is great just because we say so" instead of actually having real reasons(such as the questions above) its usually not a good sign.
So.......how many "target viewers" was this idea shown to? What age and gender group is the target audience? What percentage of the focus groups approved of the concept? What percentage of the focus group said they would pay the asking price to see this product? What is the margin of error for your focus group?
Obviously these are rhetorical questions(unless they actually did this, which I would be surprised).
I personally am fairly neutral on the game. The point I'm trying to make is this is the kind of thing that has happened over and over in pool. Someone thinks they have a great idea, starts sinking money in it, gets all the die hard fans/players interested only to flop. This could be avoided simply by following successful business plans that are out there. This has just about every sign of past failures in pool, except now you're doing it with a game most people haven't heard of.
I truly hope I am wrong here, but most of the time when people just start touting "this is great just because we say so" instead of actually having real reasons(such as the questions above) its usually not a good sign.
You own bonus ball? who owns 9 ball? if I play bonus ball at home with numbered balls do I owe you money?
They pros love it. I heard it's all they are playing in the action room at Derby City... lol
If I were going to pay them to play 3ball, they would LOVE it too. They might even wear a corny jersey if the money was right.
LOL.....there are approximately 39 million people who play pool recreationally in the U.S. alone each year.
So you took a survey of 50 or less that play the game for a living and you are actually going to ask "what other survey is needed?" You do realize they represent the SMALLEST percentage of pool players worldwide right?
Please tell me you have no formal marketing or business education.......
You keep offering opinions and I'm asking for facts. I'm done responding in this thread unless someone can actually give factual numbers to support their business.
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No, you don't owe me any money if you play Bonus Ball at home or in a pool hall. I am the vice-president of the World Wide Sport of Billiards that does own the patents to this game. If you tried to run a Bonus Ball league for profit without a licensing agreement with my company or used the game for profit in any other way, then yes we have the legal right to stop you or even collect monies collected.
I have no idea who invented eight ball ball? I know today I could start a professional Eight Ball league without answering to anyone as could you. How about ten ball, anyone patent adding one ball to nine ball, I doubt it but I'm not really sure. I do know we did patent his game in North America and Europe too.
I do not answer posts that say "Bonus Ball is stupid, I hate the game". I do answer question that are intelligent and focused on better educating pool players. This question is legitimate. This is the truthful answer.
The WPBL is not my league. i have no control in any of Larry's decisions. I did suggest he hire Nathan and his crew. I did encourage him to go with the team and league format. I did suggest that using ten ball, eight ball and Bonus Ball together would be a more successful way to launch something like this. It worked well for me the first time I every did an amateur tournament in Winnipeg. i then switched to strictly Bonus Ball the next season once players were educated that this is a great game. However, it is the truth that the top players got it immediately and the lower level players did not. That is why I have two different versions of the game, Advanced and Six-pocket for lower level players.
Of course Bonus Ball is not main stream yet or widely known in pool halls! What would you expect of a newly formed game. However, anytime I show players the game, I get the same reaction! Wow, this is a good game! after they play it for any sort of a period of time, they start to appreciate what this game offers to them. It improves your strategic thought process, banking, rail shots and the time clock makes you move your ass! Corey Deuel is a fantastic player but watching him play One Pocket or Bonus Ball shows you his true cuemanship. It is no surprise to me that both he and Bustamante have been so strong at the derby.
The construction crew that screwed up Larry's start dates for the WPBL is not for me to say but for Larry Chiborak to say. He may not want to crucify this company until after the Nevada State Contractor Board brings their legal action against them. However, I assure you personally, they did fraud Larry big time. The other fraud charges were brought against them after they already were performing work for Larry. There is no doubt that they will be answering to the board about screwing Larry and everyone else associated with the WPBL.
39 million recreational players and I saw 2000 or less watching the Derby at one time is really sad. We asked ourselves why all these pool players but no one cares to watch the best players in the world. Our answer may not make you happy but we decide that it was the production and the lack of a professionally structured league. The current system has not proven us wrong. That is why we headed in an opposite direction. That is the honest answer my friend.
Any business that keeps on repeating failure is doom to keep on failing. Business 101...elementary Watson. A survey of 1000 amateur league players and 95 percent will vote for the game they play of course. Eight Ball or Nine Ball, that is a gimmie. So, what can I say, I decided to develop a game that was structured to play differently. I'm not promoting Bonus Ball to players that love potting ball after ball. Im looking for players that like strategy and enjoy not winning by holding the table the whole match and not playing an opponent. Just my opinion but I don't enjoy that as much as what Bonus Ball offers me. That is why I partnered with Larry when I first played Bonus Ball. It was more to my liking. There is nothing wrong with being happy playing traditional games. Hell, i still enjoy playing eight ball tournaments and quite often will be found playing at Fargo Billiards which is a four hour drive from my home.
The WPBL is against all odds at succeeding but If it does, it will benefit pool in general. It certainly can't hurt it. I wish Larry and the professional players of this concept all the best! Go to www.playbonusball.com for more information on Bonus Ball and also enjoy a free preview of Team Canada vs USA.
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39 million recreational players and 0 are watching bonus ball.
It was in fact a building in Shanghai, China. It fell due to weakened fundation, another team dug a crater for an underground parking lot too deep and too close to it led to its toppling.
The digging team was indeed fully licensed and utterly unqualified at the same time. That's China for you.
Cleary, to continue insulting professional player for wanting to play Bonus Ball is not cool. Rodney Morris practices and plays Bonus Ball for free every day. Playing Bonus Ball for money is a good reason the pros want in but ultimately, you won't see them playing six months in Las Vegas unless they believe in the game and the concept!
As far as the pros not playing Bonus Ball for money at the Derby does not mean it is not a great game. I actually think that the Bonus Ball professionals would make a fortune at the Derby gambling in Bonus Ball because they know the best player will always win a Bonus Ball race. Another beautiful thing about Bonus Ball. Like Straight Pool and One Pocket, players like the top professionals ready to play in the WPBL, always rise to the top. I had two pro events of Bonus Ball and never saw one game of anything else being played Cleary, so your points are mute! By the way, Bustamante by far was the very best Bonus Ball player at our first Professional event. Rodney Morris's Chicago Rockets was the winner of our Bonus Ball team event in November. If you want to see amazing shots, watch Corey Deuel playing Bonus Ball in our promo videos! He truly is an amazing player!
Wait until you see Frost and Daulton playing Bonus Ball. They are simply much better players than I ever imagined. Bonus Ball showcases these skills! If you wish to learn more about this new league, go to www.wpbl.tv to read all about Larry Chiborak's dream, a professional billiard league. See videos and read about the concept. If you have legitimate questions, you can go to www.playbonusball.com and email me personally or you can private message me here at azbilliards forums. By the way Cleary, we hit far more than two thousand views on our promos, try over 100,000 hits. Facts Cleary, talk facts.
Im in Curacao right now on holidays but will be returning to Las Vegas next week, email me and let's play Bonus Ball!
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Do you want a chance to recant that statement?
Where was the Bonus Ball presence at The Derby? Once again, you dropped the ball. No pun intended.
So far Corey Deuel, captain of the WPBL Miami franchise has won and so has Francisco Bustamante, winner of our first Bonus Ball event. Let's not forget Johnny Archer, our hero in the Mosconi Cup, and perhaps the greatest person I have ever met, is doing well! Perhaps your not familiar with the WPBL Bonus Ball players? Go to www.wpbl.tv to learn more.
Pick up that ball! LOL
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Sorry to be blunt, but more dumb statements by you.
Petro boy said...
Isn't there a million dollar payout for the bonus ball league? So really your statement about playing for free doesn't really apply, take that prize away and see how many pros just play the game. I didn't realize that this game was owned by a business if Larry really wanted his dream of a new game to catch on and be played everywhere then money shouldn't be made off it like that make the money on his pro league and ball sales but not if someone wants to have league and try out this new game. That's like the MLB making
Money off all the baseball leagues out there. It isnt right and won't work leagues have a hard enough time with out having to pay to play the game as well. This makes me think about how I view this game now. If it was me and it was my dream game and really wanted it to survive I would not treat it this way. Can you name another game that is run like this?
Huh?
All major league sports are a business and make money buy selling products. NASCAR, NHL, NFL etc all have copy-righted their products. Patents run-out and only protect the business for so long. If patents were protecting the NFL and other sports, they would have expired years ago. Copy-rights do protect the NFL against me making up jerseys. If I try and sell their logos and such, I will go down fast. That is american law.
The APA sells franchises. That is how they make money and charge a league fee to players. That is fair enough. The World Wide Sport of Billiards needs to make money to survive. That is how I get a pay check. i never made a penny doing Eight Ball tournaments. I was ok with that. When I decided to do pool full time, I wanted to make so profit. Is that wrong? I made 100k a year in the electrical business, now I take home less than 20k a year. I am happier doing billiards. LOL
Business is not amateur pool but the APA and other leagues don't work 24/7 for nothing. WPBL is a business. No fans, no money, one dead WPBL. It is how business in any sport survives. Amateur sports exists at a lower level than professional sports. Both have a place in society. Sometimes neither makes any money. They fold and someone else steps in to find a better business model. Larry has a different business model than most. He succeeds, he is a genius, he fails, he's is just another businessman that did not succeed. He should not be looked as a failure!
Isn't there a million dollar payout for the bonus ball league? So really your statement about playing for free doesn't really apply, take that prize away and see how many pros just play the game. I didn't realize that this game was owned by a business if Larry really wanted his dream of a new game to catch on and be played everywhere then money shouldn't be made off it like that make the money on his pro league and ball sales but not if someone wants to have league and try out this new game. That's like the MLB making
Money off all the baseball leagues out there. It isnt right and won't work leagues have a hard enough time with out having to pay to play the game as well. This makes me think about how I view this game now. If it was me and it was my dream game and really wanted it to survive I would not treat it this way. Can you name another game that is run like this?
Huh?
All major league sports are a business and make money buy selling products. NASCAR, NHL, NFL etc all have copy-righted their products. Patents run-out and only protect the business for so long. If patents were protecting the NFL and other sports, they would have expired years ago. Copy-rights do protect the NFL against me making up jerseys. If I try and sell their logos and such, I will go down fast. That is american law.
The APA sells franchises. That is how they make money and charge a league fee to players. That is fair enough. The World Wide Sport of Billiards needs to make money to survive. That is how I get a pay check. i never made a penny doing Eight Ball tournaments. I was ok with that. When I decided to do pool full time, I wanted to make so profit. Is that wrong? I made 100k a year in the electrical business, now I take home less than 20k a year. I am happier doing billiards. LOL
Business is not amateur pool but the APA and other leagues don't work 24/7 for nothing. WPBL is a business. No fans, no money, one dead WPBL. It is how business in any sport survives. Amateur sports exists at a lower level than professional sports. Both have a place in society. Sometimes neither makes any money. They fold and someone else steps in to find a better business model. Larry has a different business model than most. He succeeds, he is a genius, he fails, he's is just another businessman that did not succeed. He should not be looked as a failure!
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