Visual targets for the pocket center (with pics)

[CJ Wiley]

Without this understanding there's a disconnection in the players experience of the g

Funny that you should open up a thread on this for I have just discovered it myself a few months ago and have been enjoying pool even more. Now on my Gandy table I aim at the actual points of the cushion either the left or the right point depending on where I am shooting from but on a Gold Crown table I have to change that to the "Plastic Point" on either the left or right side which is deeper in the pocket. Now to have even more fun CJ Wiley's TOI (Touch of Inside) has helped me become even more accurate in just the few days that I have been using it aiming at the same point. Now I have added my own "TOO" (Touch of Outside) when I need to aim at the left or inside cushion point. Just a side note I have looked at Tor Lowery's Zero-x video on youtube the part on staying on the correct side of the OB and reviewed some fundamentals and all I have to say is if I have anymore fun at the table they are going to call the police and have me arrested. Great post!!!

Playing pool creates a deep satisfaction when we allow the game to express it's self. For this to happen we strive to connect ourselves to what the cue ball is really doing and make it conform to what we "think".

The TOI technique "stirs this reality up" by seeking to control something that is naturally happening (deflection) and allows us to be on the same team, instead of in conflict. Without this relationship it's very difficult (if not impossible) to relate to what a "Pocket Zone" really is. Favoring the Inside part of the cue ball will encourage this to start happening naturally.

Once we get on this track the next step is connecting the sensation of hitting the cue ball to the sensation of hitting the center of the pocket. This is the process we all must go through, either consciously or unconsciously to have the ability to hit any "part" of the pocket.

The object ball is not the "target", it's a "liaison" between the cue ball and the pocket. We don't have any physical contact with the object ball, it's the cue ball that we are influencing directly and the target is the pocket.

Without this understanding there's a disconnection in the players experience of the game and in many cases they will never know why. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[slach]

Check out application...
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=280303&highlight=slach

With it you can notice the center of the pocket and the "effective pocket size" changes depending on the angle, especially with slow shots. A slow roller down a rail make the pocket bigger and moves the center towards the rail.

Dr. Dave helped me out with this with his extensive analysis of this aspect of a pool shot.

 

[CJ Wiley]

"In pool there are no hard shots or easy shots {at the highest levels}, only "shots"

Check out application...
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=280303&highlight=slach

With it you can notice the center of the pocket and the "effective pocket size" changes depending on the angle, especially with slow shots. A slow roller down a rail make the pocket bigger and moves the center towards the rail.

Dr. Dave helped me out with this with his extensive analysis of this aspect of a pool shot.

This is true and also why it's very important to hit all your shots the same speed if possible. You really don't want the "pocket target" to move around. To be as consistent as possible you want to follow a system that enables you to treat all the shots the same.

"In pool there are no hard shots or easy shots {at the highest levels}, there are only shots".....the key is finding a way to use the same speed, the same "tip target" and the same way to create every angle needed in the game of pool. 'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com

 

[RRfireblade]

The difference is you have to in your head estimate where that point is, and go for it. With what I photographed, you have a discrete target to aim for. Its just another method good shooting.

Yes but your "formula" is inaccurate.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Yes but your "formula" is inaccurate.

What do you find inaccurate about it? Where true "center" actually is?

Or the greater concept I am trying to convey of picking out a specific target in the pocket to make the OB hit? It doesn't matter if you are going for center pocket, or cheating the pocket to the extreme for position or to get around an obstacle ball, the idea I was trying to convey is you can often find a feature in the pocket that I've photographed to accomplish this.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Edit, I just saw your picture.

It doesn't matter if its off 1 or 2 mm. Its the idea of aiming at something discrete instead of an "area" that is a "black hole".

I found in play, even if the particular pocket target was not "100 % exactly", I could still find a suitable target that was "close enough", and still better than aiming at a black hole.

Again, this is for me. Everyone is different.

Good shooting.

 

[iusedtoberich]

...snip...
On tables with worn cloth you can see the rail groove as it enters the corner pocket and bends. This gives a visible target -- drive the object ball down the middle of that pattern if it's coming from straight out from the pocket.

The "donut" spot is a little inside the point right between the corners of the rail groove.

Thats good info. I was playing on new cloth with no gutter lines yet. I'll watch for this as the cloth wears. Thanks.

 

[RRfireblade]

Edit, I just saw your picture.

It doesn't matter if its off 1 or 2 mm. Its the idea of aiming at something discrete instead of an "area" that is a "black hole".

I found in play, even if the particular pocket target was not "100 % exactly", I could still find a suitable target that was "close enough", and still better than aiming at a black hole.

Again, this is for me. Everyone is different.

Good shooting.

Well yours is off, simple as that. (Clearly more than a mm or 2 btw.)

Why not be accurate when given the opportunity , seems odd to come up with a 'formula' to help your game that is knowingly flawed.

The points I referenced are not only more correct but easier to see under normal conditions and apply universally to every table.

But to each his own I guess , I assumed you wanted feedback. I apologize for making that assumption.

Carry on.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Lol, no worries, I appreciate the feedback.

I think I see what you are saying now that I look at your picture closer. The donut itself is not the center for every angle? I misread Mr Jewett's article. He used that donut as a singular aiming point in practice for consistency (that's the way I recall the article). And it does work in this way. But I see now that the donut is not the center for every approach angle.

Actually I wasn't even using the donut, it was there from before. What I was doing was standing behind the OB path, and looking at the two points of the pocket, like your picture. And picking the feature of the pocket closest to the center of these two points. That feature is what I was aiming the OB at.

I will think about how to amend the pictures in the first post.

Thanks.

 

[slach]

Chill out, guys.

'A slow roller down a rail make the pocket bigger and moves the center towards the rail.'

We're only talking a few mm's, but it's true, and it's good to know..

 

[RRfireblade]

Lol, no worries, I appreciate the feedback.

I think I see what you are saying now that I look at your picture closer. The donut itself is not the center for every angle? I misread Mr Jewett's article. He used that donut as a singular aiming point in practice for consistency (that's the way I recall the article). And it does work in this way. But I see now that the donut is not the center for every approach angle.

Actually I wasn't even using the donut, it was there from before. What I was doing was standing behind the OB path, and looking at the two points of the pocket, like your picture. And picking the feature of the pocket closest to the center of these two points. That feature is what I was aiming the OB at.

I will think about how to amend the pictures in the first post.

Thanks.

Yes sir , that is correct.

Sorry , I am only familiar with the other kind of doughnut , so I can't offer much comment on it's full function in the case of pool.

 

[Phoenix13]

Why make the game even more stressful then it already is We all have the pocket position engraved on our brain. If you want to pinpoint your shots like that, you are doomed for failure.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Yes but your "formula" is inaccurate.

If you miss to the right of your line on the right side.... you miss.
Miss to the left of the line on the left side.... the ball still goes in.

I'd say the doughnut is in the pocket center.. even at that angle.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Why make the game even more stressful then it already is We all have the pocket position engraved on our brain. If you want to pinpoint your shots like that, you are doomed for failure.

I very much tend to agree. Sometimes I shoot some shots without even actually ever looking at the pocket. I just know where it is relative to where the OB is on the table & can 'see' it in my periphreal vision. I believe that is also a claim of CTE, not having to look at the pocket.

Other times, on more full cut shots where the pocket is beyond the 'aim' line of the CB to OB I am 'aiming' at or just inside or outside of a pocket point. Perhaps this is because I am rarely shooting with a center CB hit targeted at the middle of the pocket. I'm targeting one side or another with some form of off center hit on the CB. The only time I 'aim' an OB at a specific exact spot is when shooting combinations or bank shots.

Like CJ Wiley has said several times, it is easy to make this game complicated but the goal should be to keep it as simple as possible. Sometimes it just seems that we are looking for a crutch that will help but it is very difficult to run fast while on crutches.

I doubt that I am the only one that shoots this way, but I could be wrong.

Regards to You &

 

[RRfireblade]

If you miss to the right of your line on the right side.... you miss.
Miss to the left of the line on the left side.... the ball still goes in.

I'd say the doughnut is in the pocket center.. even at that angle.

It's not.

Just because you may be able to slop it in using a specific ball speed off the rail doesn't make that the 'center' of the pocket. Also, that additional margin is unreliable, undependable or simply impossible on many tables depending on how the pockets are cut.

Technically it's still a miss that just may happen to fall on some tables and under some circumstances. Not the smartest way to train or practice ,IMHO. But you certainly are free to do as you wish.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

It's not.

Just because you may be able to slop it in using a specific ball speed off the rail doesn't make that the 'center' of the pocket. Also, that additional margin is unreliable, undependable or simply impossible on many tables depending on how the pockets are cut.

Technically it's still a miss that just may happen to fall on some tables and under some circumstances. Not the smartest way to train or practice ,IMHO. But you certainly are free to do as you wish.

That's why pockets cut correctly are at an angle.. so you have a small margin of error coming off the rail.
Balls off the rails will fall with tight pockets if cut correctly. I don't play on a table with butcherd pockets.

I wouldn't call it SLOP, and technically it's NOT a miss... It's called using the pocket margin to get shape.

 

[RRfireblade]

That's why pockets cut correctly are at an angle.. so you have a small margin of error coming off the rail.
Balls off the rails will fall with tight pockets if cut correctly. I don't play on a table with butcherd pockets.

I wouldn't call it SLOP, and technically it's NOT a miss... It's called using the pocket margin to get shape.

That's your opinion.

In mine you missed the pocket unless your telling me that you purposely aimed your shot specifically into the rail. Seems kinda of a silly thing to do when the "pocket" should be your target.

When you miss the pocket you aimed for and the ball still manages to fall in , I consider that slop. Perhaps my standards are too high. I can live with that.



P.S. I guess you consider the gutter part of the lane when bowling as well ?



EDIT:

Just want to clarify what the point of this topic was in case you didn't read the first post.

The "point" was establishing a method for finding a center of pocket reference that applies equally from all possible angles on the table. You simply can not include points on the rail as a valid part of that equation. Or any other reference for that matter that does not apply to the criteria specified. (All angles on the table)

 

[iusedtoberich]

I had intended my pictures to be the center of the pockets on "clean" shots. No hitting the rail on the way in. But obviously if you hit the rail it can still go under the right conditions. I was striving for "clean" hits in my practice.

I Still haven't amended pics yet...

 

[RRfireblade]

I had intended my pictures to be the center of the pockets on "clean" shots. No hitting the rail on the way in. But obviously if you hit the rail it can still go under the right conditions. I was striving for "clean" hits in my practice.

I Still haven't amended pics yet...

Understood and I agree. I edited my last post to refresh that point.

Thanks.

 

[duckie]

That's your opinion.

In mine you missed the pocket unless your telling me that you purposely aimed your shot specifically into the rail. Seems kinda of a silly thing to do when the "pocket" should be your target.

When you miss the pocket you aimed for and the ball still manages to fall in , I consider that slop. Perhaps my standards are too high. I can live with that.



P.S. I guess you consider the gutter part of the lane when bowling as well ?



EDIT:

Just want to clarify what the point of this topic was in case you didn't read the first post.

The "point" was establishing a method for finding a center of pocket reference that applies equally from all possible angles on the table. You simply can not include points on the rail as a valid part of that equation. Or any other reference for that matter that does not apply to the criteria specified. (All angles on the table)

Yes you can. You are only considering the OB going into the rail first. What about when the cue ball goes rail first in to the OB. Then the rail is part of the equation.

Once again, think beyond just cut shots. And sometimes you have to "go around a ball" to make a ball. Meaning that there is a blocking ball for straight in but enough room so that you can hit the rail first with the OB ball and still go in. Then you must consider the rail.

The pocket is not the target all the time. Where you want the OB to go is the target and sometimes it is the pocket, sometimes it's a rail, sometimes it's another ball but the target is never always the pocket.