Did anyones game get better after getting a predator?

[CJ Wiley]

The cue is just a "delivery system" for the tip to contact and influence the cue ball

People say you get more spin on the cue ball or can draw it better. What I wanna know is how can that be? Wouldn't the type of leather tip be more important in this case than the shaft? The cue ball doesn't know what type of shaft you have it only does what you make it do. Is there any scientific studies on this? Or is it just a matter of opinion? Thanks

You have an excellent point there, we actually play the game with the tip. The cue is just a "delivery system" for the tip to contact and influence the cue ball.

In pool there's 3 main decisions/calculations you have to make on each shot.

1) Shot speed - how fast will your cue move into the cue ball

2) Shot angle - what angle needs to be created to make the shot

3) Cue Ball Target - where will you hit the cue ball to make the first two happen, and get the cue ball to the next position on the table

To play at the highest levels we must find a way to incorporate or "blend" these three factors into one consistent routine. The game is either as complicated or easy as you can make it....I prefer the "KISS" method.

 

[THE FLASH]

this is very common for someone who already could play with both sides of the cueball.

Freddie

i had minimal success with a 314. Switched back to maple and my game soared. I now have been using an ob classic with much better consistency. If i ever switch back to maple, i need to get a taper like the ob classic. Great shaft.

 

[Cornerman]

i had minimal success with a 314. Switched back to maple and my game soared. I now have been using an ob classic with much better consistency. If i ever switch back to maple, i need to get a taper like the ob classic. Great shaft.

And that's my personal experience: the taper is the key for me. So now any normal shaft with the right taper (for me) brings outs my best game.

Freddie <~~~ balance and taper - those at the most important for me

 

[CJ Wiley]

The conical taper produce less deflection in a standard shaft

And that's my personal experience: the taper is the key for me. So now any normal shaft with the right taper (for me) brings outs my best game.

Freddie <~~~ balance and taper - those at the most important for me

The conical taper produce less deflection in a standard shaft.

We always took the tip in slightly and get the shaft a mm large, then sand it with 600 sand paper and play, back and forth for 3 hours (or however long it took) to get it to the exact deflection rate we wanted.

 

[Mitchxout]

The conical taper produce less deflection in a standard shaft.

We always took the tip in slightly and get the shaft a mm large, then sand it with 600 sand paper and play, back and forth for 3 hours (or however long it took) to get it to the exact deflection rate we wanted.

I used to do the same thing. In fact, I'm still playing with the same shaft from back in the day.

However, I believe Predator shafts make the game easier. It's similar to what the Callaway Big Bertha driver did for golfers.

 

[Shaft]

My game gets better every day.

I really think engineered shafts are "better" only in the sense they are probably more consistent with each other. Otherwise, they are just different.

 

[Mitchxout]

My game gets better every day.

I really think engineered shafts are "better" only in the sense they are probably more consistent with each other. Otherwise, they are just different.

I disagree. low deflection isn't just different. It makes the game much simpler by minmizing aiming allowances for shots with englsih. Also, shooting with no intended english is very forgiving on mishits slightly off center.

 

[BelleBelle]

Ok not sure if this makes sense but when I've tried playing with a LD shaft using inside English there seems to be no deflection, I can shot at the object ball at the point of contact. When using outside English I have to aim very full on the object ball almost like I'm way undercutting it. If I aim at the point of contact using outside English it over cuts the object ball by half diamond. Now for me personally it seems that a LD shaft only has low deflection when using inside spin. When playing with a standard maple shaft it's just the opposite. Does anyone else Experience this?

 

[ddadams]

The game changed for me when I got used to my OB2.


I attribute 20-30% to my shaft change and the rest to the added practice i put in after seeing small improvements right away.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I've just heard that the 314 2 shafts are a great diff like u can get better english more control over the ball? Ect

All the things people say about "getting more spin" are mostly false or at least greatly exaggerated. You might be able to get a *tiny* bit more spin, but this is not any part of the reason to play with that shaft. Predator and OB offer 1 real benefit: reduced cueball squirt (deflection). It is simply easier to aim the ball when using english. The cue ball goes more closely to where you aim, without "squirting" out to the side as much. I think my game definitely improved, mainly because I felt so much more confident using inside english, and extreme english when necessary.

Many will say "it's all what you are used to". This is also surely true. But ask yourself one simple question: is it easier to get used to something that requires more correction, or less? Or perhaps a better question is: are you more accurate with a shaft that minimizes errors in cueing, or not?

The people that will net the greatest benefit are the newer players, who have not invested a lot of time compensating for cueball deflection. The only way to answer the question *for you* is to go try it out. Give it a month. You can pretty easily sell a 314-2 shaft if you hate it. I doubt you will. The only drawback for me is the feel of the hit. Predator has a pretty dull and hollow feeling hit. I personally found the OB Classic to *feel* better. Better yet, and overall the best shaft I've tried, is the Bob Danielson SS360. This is the best balance I've felt between a nice solid hit and low deflection. Also the taper is great. I would check that one out!

KMRUNOUT

 

[shojingod]

always. :smile:

 

[jackpot]

Inside easy

BELLEBELLE,
This is exactly what happened to me with LD shafts. Inside was real easy
but over cut the ball with ouside. I even thought about using LD for inside
only. You know golfers change clubs for different shots why not the same
for pool. But I figured I would really look stupid if I missed after changing
cues.

 

[CJ Wiley]

There is a perfect amount of deflection, and not necessarily as "low as possible"

I used to do the same thing. In fact, I'm still playing with the same shaft from back in the day.

However, I believe Predator shafts make the game easier. It's similar to what the Callaway Big Bertha driver did for golfers.

Yes, I agree, for beginner so intermediate it may be more forgiving to play with this type of shaft. And like the golf analogy, as you get more advanced you really want the deflection so you can "work the ball" and maximize margin of error. There is a perfect amount of deflection, and not necessarily as "low as possible".

 

[vapoolplayer]

Ok not sure if this makes sense but when I've tried playing with a LD shaft using inside English there seems to be no deflection, I can shot at the object ball at the point of contact. When using outside English I have to aim very full on the object ball almost like I'm way undercutting it. If I aim at the point of contact using outside English it over cuts the object ball by half diamond. Now for me personally it seems that a LD shaft only has low deflection when using inside spin. When playing with a standard maple shaft it's just the opposite. Does anyone else Experience this?

If you are using outside spin and you over cut a ball, that's not because of deflection. In fact, if there were more deflection with outside spin, you'd actually undercut the ball as the deflection would push the cue ball towards the inside of the object ball.

The likely culprit of your issue is how much outside vs. inside you are using. For example, when you think you are putting one tip of outside on a ball and then think you are putting one tip of inside on a ball, you are likely actually using 1.5 to 2 tips of outside and only 1 tip of inside. This would cause your shots with outside to throw more than with inside. Also take notice of the speed in which you hit each shot with mostly. You need to hit shots with inside harder most of the time since you need more energy in the cue ball to work against the kill spin, and shots with outside need to be hit slower since the running spin takes over. Harder shots throw less than softer shots. A third point is contact induced throw, when you are using outside, you are throwing the ball with outside spin, which is the same way that contact induced throw is pushing the object ball. With inside spin you are working against contact induced throw, make the object ball throw less.

Long story short, throw, not deflection is your issue.

 

[naji]

Ok not sure if this makes sense but when I've tried playing with a LD shaft using inside English there seems to be no deflection, I can shot at the object ball at the point of contact. When using outside English I have to aim very full on the object ball almost like I'm way undercutting it. If I aim at the point of contact using outside English it over cuts the object ball by half diamond. Now for me personally it seems that a LD shaft only has low deflection when using inside spin. When playing with a standard maple shaft it's just the opposite. Does anyone else Experience this?

Bellebelle,
Try this when you can for LH & RH english shots & tip placement
1. Make sure your bridge hand is at same location for both LH & RH english
2. Same cue elevation
3. Same speed (hard and follow LH or RH) no stun, and ensure swerve out of picture
4. Same stroke (long follow through or short)
5. Take note of where tip is hitting by following its mark on CB
6. Make sure your butt hand is at same place also
7. Mark CB and OB location and shoot only that shot (preferable long shot)
8. Make note of CB direction after contact of OB (to make sure it is not stun shot)
9. I add, try put OB on spot, and CB at head string and shoot 100% straight shot, note where OB is going
10. When done try at different cloth table
11. Also try to have cue shaft guided by chin and chest to ensure same shaft movement either parallel to CB or angled (BHE)

Let us know the result

Speaking of cue type influence on player's ability all above has to be factored in. Note i said no stun shots (CJ)

 

[naji]

I'm about to get a predator did anyones game get better? Notice big diff cuz of that shafts they have? Notice diff from a cheaper cue too a predator?

See post # 75

 

[devorator]

You'll never ever ever, I mean never get better in yoir game using an Ld shaft. The aiming, stroke, cb path, impact, feel, even accuracy are totally different after using an Ld. Like CJ said it gives you the more confidence when you are a rookie, but it's in fact false confidence. The low deflection was made to improve some aspects of the game, YOU ALREADY KNOW ABOUT AND CONTROL THEM. Otherwise they will control you, and you won't be able to get back to a normal shaft., at least not very easy. Why would you start eating with the desert, when you are starved?!
It's from personal experience....and hate it...
Just my 2 cents...

Chris

Sent from my SCH-I535

 

[naji]

You'll never ever ever, I mean never get better in yoir game using an Ld shaft. The aiming, stroke, cb path, impact, feel, even accuracy are totally different after using an Ld. Like CJ said it gives you the more confidence when you are a rookie, but it's in fact false confidence. The low deflection was made to improve some aspects of the game, YOU ALREADY KNOW ABOUT AND CONTROL THEM. Otherwise they will control you, and you won't be able to get back to a normal shaft., at least not very easy. Why would you start eating with the desert, when you are starved?!
It's from personal experience....and hate it...
Just my 2 cents...

Chris

Sent from my SCH-I535

Chris,
You are wrong for few reasons, you implied using HD cue will make you play better; neither LD or HD will make you play better, you did not indicate types of shots, you did not indicate type of pool game (one pocket requires soft shots lots of no stun english), and LD shafts are much better for aiming because it makes aiming margins smaller so you can use edge of pocket as guide, where as HD shafts you would be aiming 1/2 diamond from pocket if not more at times for no stun english shots. At the end of the day, focus, smooth follow through, and accurate aiming is what will get you there.

 

[Cornerman]

I'll resurrect an ancient post from me back in 2004:
-------------------------------------------------------
Decemeber 14, 2004

In case anyone wanted to know, especially Kato and Shane Sinnot, I've concluded my Predator experiment.

For background, I've been playing forever just like everyone else. I've consciously adjusted for squirt since ~1990 when I took a $10 lesson from Grady Matthews. That lesson opened my eyes to the importance of squirt, and the relatively low importance to throw for firm shots. Therefore, for over a dozen years, I've been consciously adjusting for squirt.

Years later, through USENET'S Rec.Sport.Billiard, Bob Jewett, and the FAQ, I learned the Aim & Pivot method for squirt compensation, further honing my technique for squirt compensation. The result is that neither outside nor inside english is more difficult, but both are more difficult than outside english used to be and less difficult than inside english used to be (pre-1990).

I had a "discussion" with Shane, then a heavy hitter on the Predator staff. His argument was based on his game elevating after he went to a Predator. My argument was that if I already felt very comfortable with compensating for squirt, how could it improve my game since that was it's main design ?

Arguments aside, I played exclusively with a Predator shaft for a year and a half. The result: my game is (ed:became) worse. It didn't help me. I never had that wonderful feeling of complete control. Sure, I still won tournaments, I still had a high rating in all the leagues, but I never felt like I was playing my best. Shotmaking may have been better, but position play and speed control just wasn't there. And, because of the low squirt, swerve became so important to understand. And some shots, like a slow shot with english, if I didn't stop and think about swerve, I had a good chance of missing the exact spot to get the proper "blend" of hit. (ed: I had a great chance at missing the whole ball!)

So, is Predator all hype? Not at all. I honestly think that if you don't have a good handle on squirt (99.9% of players) and how to hit firm english shots, then a Predator could be helpful. If you already know how to compensate for squirt and can make firm inside english shots without fainting dead, then for me, it didn't help. Take a look at all the pros that have switched to Predator shafts. Has there been any drastic change in the player rankings? I don't think so.

I have returned to a "high squirt" cue, with a pivot point of about 10-12". Results speak for themselves. I've played 7 (ed: this has to be 10 matches, not 7) matches for a total 49 8-ball games. Other than two break and runs against me and a runout after my dry break, I've only lost one game that I actually stepped up to the table. That's 45-4 with 6 or 7 break and runs (it's all alternating breaks, so that about a 25% clip). I haven't had a string like this since... before the low squirt shaft. And better yet, I feel as good as I've ever played, a feeling I never had playing with the low squirt shaft.

In my crazy APA 9-ball, I'm 5-2. The two times I lost, I lost because my opponents played well enough to win and I played well enough to lose. The five times I won, my teammates (who have only seen me shoot with low squirt shafts) tell me it's the best they've ever seen me shoot.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Just for anyone's interest or edification:

That was with a 1st generation Predator. I own about a dozen LD shafts.

I currently play with a Profesional Taper on my Schuler (not a Schuler Pro) which I took down to 12.75.

The 1st generation Predator's pivot point is much closer to a normal pivot point. Might be why lots of people still desire this version. The 314-2 for today is completely unplayable for me (without a lot of work)!

With the aiming systems I use today, modern LD shafts won't work. I am entirely too much with the understanding that my bridge and pivot points need to be close to each other or else I'd have to make adjustments to my aiming system to use english. The 1st gen Predators are close enough that I can use that shaft. I'm wondering if that pivot point changed over time. Hmmm....

LD shafts again do what they claim - decrease squirt significantly. Whether it will improve your game depends on really one main thing: how well does squirt and your game work together (or not) today?

Freddie <~~~ FWIW

 

[dr9ball]

Chris,
You are wrong for few reasons, you implied using HD cue will make you play better; neither LD or HD will make you play better, you did not indicate types of shots, you did not indicate type of pool game (one pocket requires soft shots lots of no stun english), and LD shafts are much better for aiming because it makes aiming margins smaller so you can use edge of pocket as guide, where as HD shafts you would be aiming 1/2 diamond from pocket if not more at times for no stun english shots. At the end of the day, focus, smooth follow through, and accurate aiming is what will get you there.

Naji,

Can you define what the squirt characteristics are for shafts you consider to be high deflection shafts and those you consider to be Low Deflection? A label means little if we can't agree on what it means. Since standard maple shafts and Shafts marketed as LD have varying degrees of squirt, how do you define what is a LD vs high deflection shaft?

Thanks for your reply.