8 Ball Analyze: Rack #15
- Thread starter mohrt
- Start date
This one is tricky and touchy. Solids are runnable, but it's not my favorite way to play. You make a mistake in position and you are in trouble.
You have 3 problem areas, the 8, the 3, and the 5. I would start by taking the 6 and breaking out the 5. Next, I would take the 7 in the side taking the cb into the 8 and separating it from the two stripes. I don't want to scatter them all over, just separate them so the 8 goes.
Next, I take the 4. I want to come off the rail with the cb to get as straight as possible on the 1 in the side pocket. Then, off the one, I want an angle on the 2 into the other side pocket. In making the two, I want to have just a touch of draw to come into the 3-14. I want to split the 3-14 lightly. I want to keep a shot on the 3 into the corner after the separation. If I don't, I'm done for. Then the 3 in the corner, and the 8 either in the corner or the side.
I hate leaving the last ball as a need to break it out AND get shape on it. It usually means a loss or bad planning. But, sometimes, you just have to do it. I tried to keep my analysis in the same time frame I would have to utilize at the table. Someone taking more time to analyze it may see something better. Stripes, I couldn't see a good way to get the third problem area cleared out.
EDIT: I see I left out making the 5! OOPS! Well, actually, that could be a good thing. If I break out the 5 properly, I can save it for an insurance ball when I break out the 3. That actually makes the runnout much more feasible.
You have 3 problem areas, the 8, the 3, and the 5. I would start by taking the 6 and breaking out the 5. Next, I would take the 7 in the side taking the cb into the 8 and separating it from the two stripes. I don't want to scatter them all over, just separate them so the 8 goes.
Next, I take the 4. I want to come off the rail with the cb to get as straight as possible on the 1 in the side pocket. Then, off the one, I want an angle on the 2 into the other side pocket. In making the two, I want to have just a touch of draw to come into the 3-14. I want to split the 3-14 lightly. I want to keep a shot on the 3 into the corner after the separation. If I don't, I'm done for. Then the 3 in the corner, and the 8 either in the corner or the side.
I hate leaving the last ball as a need to break it out AND get shape on it. It usually means a loss or bad planning. But, sometimes, you just have to do it. I tried to keep my analysis in the same time frame I would have to utilize at the table. Someone taking more time to analyze it may see something better. Stripes, I couldn't see a good way to get the third problem area cleared out.
EDIT: I see I left out making the 5! OOPS! Well, actually, that could be a good thing. If I break out the 5 properly, I can save it for an insurance ball when I break out the 3. That actually makes the runnout much more feasible.
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• The only realistic solution to the 5-10 is solids. The 2 seems to interfere with using 13 in the side to break 'em. Falling perfect on the 15 is unlikely.
• The only realistic solution to the 3-14 is stripes, so right now it's a wash.
• The tiebreaker is the fact that stripes control the 8 ball. I would operate under the assumption that I probably cannot run this rack, therefore I'd want stripes. Stun follow off the 15 and try to open the 3-14. Then safe.
If the 13 goes in the bottom left corner pocket, maybe play shape off my 9 ball to fall on it with an angle to go into the 5-10. But it's kind of a crapshoot.
• If I'm playing the ghost and I'm determined to run out, shoot the 7 first to free up the 8, and on the same shot if I'm very lucky, the 12 ball banks into the 3/14 cluster and opens it. It needs to throw forward a little. If I'm triple lucky I then have an angle on the 1 to go into the other cluster, and I can get out.
• The only realistic solution to the 3-14 is stripes, so right now it's a wash.
• The tiebreaker is the fact that stripes control the 8 ball. I would operate under the assumption that I probably cannot run this rack, therefore I'd want stripes. Stun follow off the 15 and try to open the 3-14. Then safe.
If the 13 goes in the bottom left corner pocket, maybe play shape off my 9 ball to fall on it with an angle to go into the 5-10. But it's kind of a crapshoot.
• If I'm playing the ghost and I'm determined to run out, shoot the 7 first to free up the 8, and on the same shot if I'm very lucky, the 12 ball banks into the 3/14 cluster and opens it. It needs to throw forward a little. If I'm triple lucky I then have an angle on the 1 to go into the other cluster, and I can get out.
My buddy and I sometimes gamble at 8 ball and only BnRs and EROs count. If this was the case and I had to run out this inning this is what I'd TRY.
Cut 7 in side with some draw to break out the 8.
Draw back on the 4 for shape a few inches above the line from the 6 to the corner.
Pocket 6 with high right to free the 5 (rail first into the 10).
Make the 1 in the side one rail out to leave an angle for the 2 in the side to send CB down table to break open the 3.
Then hope for either a shot on the 3 or the 5 to get out.
Breaking the 8 could easily cause the break on the 3 to become much more difficult with more balls in the way but that's what I'd try.
Cut 7 in side with some draw to break out the 8.
Draw back on the 4 for shape a few inches above the line from the 6 to the corner.
Pocket 6 with high right to free the 5 (rail first into the 10).
Make the 1 in the side one rail out to leave an angle for the 2 in the side to send CB down table to break open the 3.
Then hope for either a shot on the 3 or the 5 to get out.
Breaking the 8 could easily cause the break on the 3 to become much more difficult with more balls in the way but that's what I'd try.
Agreed that the solids pose the best chance for an 'if-all-goes-well-offensive' approach.
CreeDo likes that two stripes are guarding the 8. I like that the 7 is a tailor-made breakout ball for that cluster.
One interesting potential safety play on he 5-10 cluster: From opening CB position, thin hit the left edge of the 5 using soft low left english. Goal would be to soft break the cluster and leave CB tucked up near 4 ball. All depends on how far the 10 moves toward the foot rail, but I think it could be screened with the 6 or the 4, if the safe is executed properly.
If you get BIH, position for a breakout of the 3-14.
If not.... hard to say what the layout would look like if your opponent kicks when hooked by the 4....
CreeDo likes that two stripes are guarding the 8. I like that the 7 is a tailor-made breakout ball for that cluster.
One interesting potential safety play on he 5-10 cluster: From opening CB position, thin hit the left edge of the 5 using soft low left english. Goal would be to soft break the cluster and leave CB tucked up near 4 ball. All depends on how far the 10 moves toward the foot rail, but I think it could be screened with the 6 or the 4, if the safe is executed properly.
If you get BIH, position for a breakout of the 3-14.
If not.... hard to say what the layout would look like if your opponent kicks when hooked by the 4....
Short answer: solids
Long answer:
Whatever you choose, you'll have to make a few sacrifices. If you choose solids, you have three easy-to-pocket balls in the lower left corner, plus brown and blue just waiting to be shot into the side pockets. Blue stripe blocks the orange, but the opponent can't get the blue out of there easily either. Your red also blocks his green.
On the other hand, he'll have troubles manouvering around the 8 ball, with those purple and red right next to the black. Yellow will surely be pocketed, and brown and orange are left open as well.
It's quite clear solids have both an offensive and defensive advantage. They block most direct paths to pockets to the majority of the striped balls, but are also left open to be pocketed themselves.
Hope this helps :smile:
Long answer:
Whatever you choose, you'll have to make a few sacrifices. If you choose solids, you have three easy-to-pocket balls in the lower left corner, plus brown and blue just waiting to be shot into the side pockets. Blue stripe blocks the orange, but the opponent can't get the blue out of there easily either. Your red also blocks his green.
On the other hand, he'll have troubles manouvering around the 8 ball, with those purple and red right next to the black. Yellow will surely be pocketed, and brown and orange are left open as well.
It's quite clear solids have both an offensive and defensive advantage. They block most direct paths to pockets to the majority of the striped balls, but are also left open to be pocketed themselves.
Hope this helps :smile:
I actually don't mind stripes here simply because the 8-ball is clustered between two of them.
In my opinion, if you try to run-out either group, you will lose more often than win. That's not to say it can't be run. It can. You'd just have to play it really really well or be very lucky. I like the idea of establishing stripes and beginning the cat & mouse game. Maybe take the 15 first and follow down to play safe on the 14.
In my opinion, if you try to run-out either group, you will lose more often than win. That's not to say it can't be run. It can. You'd just have to play it really really well or be very lucky. I like the idea of establishing stripes and beginning the cat & mouse game. Maybe take the 15 first and follow down to play safe on the 14.
I also like stripes here. The 5-10 cluster is easily breakable off the 13 or the 15 (or the 9 if you are desperate). What's more, if you hit rail first on the 5-10 cluster and go into the back of the 5, you will have a shot on the 10. It's like a built-in insurance ball for the breakout.
That, plus the stripes controlling the 8-ball, makes me like stripes.
Edit: That means the only remaining problem for stripes is the 14-3 cluster. I can't quite see the angle, but it looks like you may be able to play the 15 firmly with follow and break out the 14. I think I would try that. If I get the breakout, I'm off and running. If I don't get the breakout, then I can play safe on the 14 and break the cluster that way.
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Yeah, I gotta say, a lot of 8ball is won by allowing the other guy to take first dibs at a tough table. I think this layout *might be* worth that risk.
ok, 1st why am i playing 8-ball onna 7ft table ?? j/k :grin:
Seriously, its solids (my opinion from my 20 second initial look atta table) Center table has 4 solids showing. Also you have 3 or 4 (gotta go look at the pic again) "trouble" balls that are stripes. The 10 is against the rail blocked by a solid. The 12 is pinned by the 8-ball. There is another stripe against the foot-rail (I think).
Solids
Seriously, its solids (my opinion from my 20 second initial look atta table) Center table has 4 solids showing. Also you have 3 or 4 (gotta go look at the pic again) "trouble" balls that are stripes. The 10 is against the rail blocked by a solid. The 12 is pinned by the 8-ball. There is another stripe against the foot-rail (I think).
Solids
Agree with Softshot, play 15 roll cue ball between 9 and 14, looks like you can tap their ball away from the 14 while freezing them between the rail and your ball, thus opening up a pocket for the 14 and likely getting BIH. With BIH play 13 in corner with small angle, follow forward to contact between rain and 5 ball, thus assuring you a shot on the 10. Once you do that, run out from there.
There's a chance for BIH, I wouldn't say it's "likely". When your opponent has 7 solids he can aim for, BIH is not to be expected. Still, I also think stripes is the way to go. It simply offers more opportunities to be defensive OR aggressive.
I would probably go with stripes but don't see either has holding much advantage. I just think I could get 'er done with stripes.
As Neil said this is tricky, I like stripes here though. I did set this one up and tried it both ways, stripes and solids. I was able to run out the stripes but it was very difficult, it would be easier on a bb but not by much.
I started with the 15 to open the 14 and 3 and then went 9, 14. I used the 14 to get position on the 13 in the side which was tight, then using the 13 to break out the 10 ball. This is we're I was lucky, after the 10 was free I left myself a nice angle on the 11 but was also shooting over the 5. After making the 11 the 12, 10 , and 8 were fairly routine.
I did try the solids (twice) and found it to be more difficult trying to break out 3 different balls, the 3, 5, and 8. The 8 was the easiest using the 7 then I went 1 rolling slightly forward and using the 2 for getting the 3 open, hitting the rail before the 14. I had a good shot on the 3 and was playing to a narrow window on the 6. After making the 6 I was off slightly to break open the 5. I did manage to break the 5 out but didn't leave a good shot and missed the 5. For me the solids were more work than the stripes, however everyone plays differently to their particular strengths, so I'm sure many people would be more comfortable going with solids and having an easier go with it.
I started with the 15 to open the 14 and 3 and then went 9, 14. I used the 14 to get position on the 13 in the side which was tight, then using the 13 to break out the 10 ball. This is we're I was lucky, after the 10 was free I left myself a nice angle on the 11 but was also shooting over the 5. After making the 11 the 12, 10 , and 8 were fairly routine.
I did try the solids (twice) and found it to be more difficult trying to break out 3 different balls, the 3, 5, and 8. The 8 was the easiest using the 7 then I went 1 rolling slightly forward and using the 2 for getting the 3 open, hitting the rail before the 14. I had a good shot on the 3 and was playing to a narrow window on the 6. After making the 6 I was off slightly to break open the 5. I did manage to break the 5 out but didn't leave a good shot and missed the 5. For me the solids were more work than the stripes, however everyone plays differently to their particular strengths, so I'm sure many people would be more comfortable going with solids and having an easier go with it.
He probably 2 rail kicks to his 1,7, or 6 and leaves you down table.
He has a lot of possible targets there without any shots for you in that area. Besides, you still have the 10 tied up without a decent breakout shot and the two stripes with the 8.
I think he would like it from there after you knock out his 3.
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Then I try to freeze him to the 10 make him kick again and I'm out