What's the secret of the grip

[ENGLISH!]

I what you say is true, then pro players would very often change how they grip during the match. But that's not what we see.
Can you name any top players who often alter their grip configuration and/or firmness depending on certain shots? From watching literary thousands of hours of many matches I certainly can't say that I've ever noticed anything like that.

No I can not name any top players that I specifically know that do that but do you really expect to SEE a difference is one's grip pressure on a video?

CJ Wiley has stated that he uses a firm grip. Before I started employing TOI, I had & for the most part still have a rather loose connection to the cue. I sometimes even shoot a foward 'slip stroke' on certain shots. However when employing the TOI method my grip frims up considerably.

So, perhaps I should have said that I am not a professional but I change my grip for the execution of shots depending on the circumstance & what type of shooting style I intend to employ.

Regards,

 

[scottjen26]

I think how you grip the cue is a personal thing, and as Fran and others said one might learn or utilize a certain style of grip based on how you were taught, the game you play most often, etc.

To answer the other posters about different grips altering cue ball behavior. This is a common technique in 3 cushion, and is similar in a way to the golf swing. How the cue ball (or golf ball) moves or reacts is purely a function of physics - speed, elevation, path, spin, etc. Clenching your hand, flicking your wrist, abbreviating or extending your follow through, etc. has absolutely no inherent effect on the cue ball since it's only in contact for a millisecond or two. However, some of these (such as a shortened or lengthened follow through) are just the result of what happened earlier in the swing, and thinking about these results or other feelings during the stroke can help people achieve a specific combination of speed/elevation/path/spin. Others are more comfortable keeping things more consistent and trying to achieve the same results with their "normal" stroke and executing the necessary changes without consciously altering their stroke mechanics.

Scott

 

[PaulM]

I can tell you that they are different & will yield different results given all other things being equal.

All other things being equal like cue ball, cue stick, tip position and speed being equal?

Isn't physics the driver in this game? If the same cue hits the same cue ball at the same tip position, at the same speed, how can you get a different result?

 

[PaulM]

Clenching your hand, flicking your wrist, abbreviating or extending your follow through, etc. has absolutely no inherent effect on the cue ball since it's only in contact for a millisecond or two. However, some of these (such as a shortened or lengthened follow through) are just the result of what happened earlier in the swing, and thinking about these results or other feelings during the stroke can help people achieve a specific combination of speed/elevation/path/spin.

You're saying that you alter your stroke subconsciously based on what you are trying to accomplish in the shot. Changing the grip is one of these things that can help you adjust your stroke though feel and habit. I'll buy this explanation. I just don't know if it's the best approach as I'd like to improve my game long before I've shot a million balls.

 

[ENGLISH!]

All other things being equal like cue ball, cue stick, tip position and speed being equal?

Isn't physics the driver in this game? If the same cue hits the same cue ball at the same tip position, at the same speed, how can you get a different result?

IMHO It is about the transfer of energy upon & through contact, even the 1 or 2 miliseconds. It is similiar in effect like a hard tip & a soft tip. If there is a firm connection of the arm swing to the cue, more energy will be transferred than with a loose connection. Perhaps a better way would be to say that the loose connection will absorb some of the energy rather than tranferring all of it.

It may also even be a perception thing that a frim grip can take out wrist action so the subconscious mind increases the stoke force to compensate & vise versa.

Think about your question. If ALL else is equal including the arm swing that generates the power but the connection to the cue is different then how can the outcome be exactly the same?

Like Ms. Crimi suggested, experiment with it & get a feel of it. You won't learn about employing it through text conversations on a forum.

Good Luck with it.

Regards,

 

[Slasher]

Grip tension will effect all the muscles in your arm and it will change the path (attack angle or left right) and speed of the cue.
This is why a loose grip allows for more cue speed and more accurate striking.

 

[FranCrimi]

All other things being equal like cue ball, cue stick, tip position and speed being equal?

Isn't physics the driver in this game? If the same cue hits the same cue ball at the same tip position, at the same speed, how can you get a different result?

As your arm moves through your stroke, your hand position on the cue changes slightly. It's a natural occurrence, particularly with loose grips. While some people may view a tight grip as a negative thing, particularly the effect in tensing the arm, that is sometimes exactly what the player wants in certain types of shots. Rigidity isn't always a bad thing when it's used with intent.

 

[Scott Lee]

Rick...Sure wish you would go to pool school and visit randyg. Then, at least, you would have some solid information, instead of the mostly inaccurate drivel you constantly post.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

IMHO It is about the transfer of energy upon & through contact, even the 1 or 2 miliseconds. It is similiar in effect like a hard tip & a soft tip. If there is a firm connection of the arm swing to the cue, more energy will be transferred than with a loose connection. Perhaps a better way would be to say that the loose connection will absorb some of the energy rather than tranferring all of it.

It may also even be a perception thing that a frim grip can take out wrist action so the subconscious mind increases the stoke force to compensate & vise versa.

Think about your question. If ALL else is equal including the arm swing that generates the power but the connection to the cue is different then how can the outcome be exactly the same?

Like Ms. Crimi suggested, experiment with it & get a feel of it. You won't learn about employing it through text conversations on a forum.

Good Luck with it.

Regards,

 

[3kushn]

IMHO It is about the transfer of energy upon & through contact, even the 1 or 2 miliseconds. It is similiar in effect like a hard tip & a soft tip. If there is a firm connection of the arm swing to the cue, more energy will be transferred than with a loose connection. Perhaps a better way would be to say that the loose connection will absorb some of the energy rather than tranferring all of it.

It may also even be a perception thing that a frim grip can take out wrist action so the subconscious mind increases the stoke force to compensate & vise versa.

Think about your question. If ALL else is equal including the arm swing that generates the power but the connection to the cue is different then how can the outcome be exactly the same?

Like Ms. Crimi suggested, experiment with it & get a feel of it. You won't learn about employing it through text conversations on a forum.

Good Luck with it.

Regards,

Do you need a firm grip to:
Split a log with an ax
Throw a baseball
Pitch horseshoes
Throw a javelin
Shoot a bow
Roll a bowling ball
Swing a bat
Hit a golf ball
.
.
.
.
Why is swinging a pool cue different in the transfer of energy?

My grip is probably thought of as too loose but power is never a problem unless I need to go 10 or 11 rails, but that's not a grip pressure issue. Its a cue speed and timing issue.

 

[FranCrimi]

Grip tension will effect all the muscles in your arm and it will change the path (attack angle or left right) and speed of the cue.
This is why a loose grip allows for more cue speed and more accurate striking.

Food for thought: What about a loose grip on a fast moving cue--- How do you keep a loose grip with a fast moving cue without grabbing it at some point to keep it from flying out of your hand? What effect does the timing of that grab have on the accuracy of the shot?

How does that compare with a specific and constant grip tension set at the onset of a particular stroke which will prevent unwanted grabbing or twisting due to a fast moving cue, particularly on a shot where there is less margin for error, such as with a punch shot?

Punch shots are not easy. You have to be able to strike the cb at the correct spot to keep it sliding with the desired speed you need. With more advanced punch shots, you may even apply top spin, allowing it to release later, for example, to drive into a rack in a 14.1 break shot with force and then release the top spin for a buzz saw-like effect, driving through the pack.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the advantages of a constant firm grip on certain shots.

 

[randyg]

Once again!!!!!
The cue ball does not know grip tension......period.

The main reason SPF teachs the Cradle is for consistency. The ability to stroke the same shot over and over again. Repeatablity!

I have been beat by many tight grips and many wonderful Cradles.
To each their own.

randyg

 

[Slasher]

Food for thought: What about a loose grip on a fast moving cue--- How do you keep a loose grip with a fast moving cue without grabbing it at some point to keep it from flying out of your hand? What effect does the timing of that grab have on the accuracy of the shot?

How does that compare with a specific and constant grip tension set at the onset of a particular stroke which will prevent unwanted grabbing or twisting due to a fast moving cue, particularly on a shot where there is less margin for error, such as with a punch shot?

Punch shots are not easy. You have to be able to strike the cb at the correct spot to keep it sliding with the desired speed you need. With more advanced punch shots, you may even apply top spin, allowing it to release later, for example, to drive into a rack in a 14.1 break shot with force and then release the top spin for a buzz saw-like effect, driving through the pack.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the advantages of a constant firm grip on certain shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvQSmvfbHWg#t=1h8m30s

 

[CJ Wiley]

make sure you can feel the cue ball with your fingers-you have maximum sensititivity

Two of my favorite players to watch are Xiao Ting Pan (China) and Thorsten Hohmann (Germany). They are both great shot makers and both have excellent cue ball control. However, they both seem to grip the cue very differently.

Xiao Ting Pan seems to have a very relaxed graceful grip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diYmyA05oK0

Thorsten Hohmann seems to utilize what looks like a firm death grip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq6Fe9tcoio

1. What's going on with the grips of each of these players?
2. What's the key secret Of the grip?

The key to the grip is to maximize power, precision, and feel. The Game is played with the hands, and the fingers give us the most feel and touch - make sure you can feel the cue ball with your fingers, where you have maximum sensitivity.

 

[bbb]

The key to the grip is to maximize power, precision, and feel. The Game is played with the hands, and the fingers give us the most feel and touch - make sure you can feel the cue ball with your fingers, where you have maximum sensitivity.

cj i could be wrong but YOUR GRIP (like a tennis racquet)
with your index knucke on top and your heel pad too giving you your unique wrist cocked forward grip your fingers dont seem to be that much involved as i see it
maybe you could post a pic of you playing showing us how your fingers are involved

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick...Sure wish you would go to pool school and visit randyg. Then, at least, you would have some solid information, instead of the mostly inaccurate drivel you constantly post.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by ENGLISH!
IMHO It is about the transfer of energy upon & through contact, even the 1 or 2 miliseconds. It is similiar in effect like a hard tip & a soft tip. If there is a firm connection of the arm swing to the cue, more energy will be transferred than with a loose connection. Perhaps a better way would be to say that the loose connection will absorb some of the energy rather than tranferring all of it.

It may also even be a perception thing that a frim grip can take out wrist action so the subconscious mind increases the stroke force to compensate & vise versa.

Think about your question. If ALL else is equal, including the arm swing that generates the power but the connection to the cue is different, then how can the outcome be EXACTLY the same?
Like Ms. Crimi suggested, experiment with it & get a feel of it. You won't learn about employing it through text conversations on a forum.

Good Luck with it.

Regards,


Okay Mr. Lee,

Since you started it................again.

Since you purport to have so much knowledge, please answer the blue bolded question above...if you can.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Do you need a firm grip to:
Split a log with an ax
Throw a baseball
Pitch horseshoes
Throw a javelin
Shoot a bow
Roll a bowling ball
Swing a bat
Hit a golf ball
.
.
.
.
Why is swinging a pool cue different in the transfer of energy?

My grip is probably thought of as too loose but power is never a problem unless I need to go 10 or 11 rails, but that's not a grip pressure issue. Its a cue speed and timing issue.

I hope you don't mind if I wait for Mr. Lee to answer my question first.

Regards,
Rick

 

[BeiberLvr]

The key to the grip is to maximize power, precision, and feel. The Game is played with the hands, and the fingers give us the most feel and touch - make sure you can feel the cue ball with your fingers, where you have maximum sensitivity.

Wouldn't that be a foul

 

[FranCrimi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvQSmvfbHWg#t=1h8m30s

Sorry, I don't click on a link unless you explain what you're trying to say.

 

[FranCrimi]

Once again and again!! The cue ball knows tip placement. A player's grip can affect tip placement on the cue ball, particularly if the player grabs and regrabs during the stroke due to a fast moving cue.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

What about no connection to the cue. Do you think that will change the outcome too?

Think about your question. If ALL else is equal, including the arm swing that generates the power but the connection to the cue is different, then how can the outcome be EXACTLY the same?