That's fine. First things first. That sounds way more important than 'discussing' pool.:ignore: Did I just say that?
I wish you all the best in your cisco endeavors. I hope it all turns out very well for you.
Regards,
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Cue Tips with CJ WILEY - Drawing the Ball
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
That's fine. First things first. That sounds way more important than 'discussing' pool.:ignore: Did I just say that?
I wish you all the best in your cisco endeavors. I hope it all turns out very well for you.
Regards,
Tony probably thought you would have watched the whole video, but that very first shot is not Stuart Pettman. Try this instead.
http://youtu.be/ZvQSmvfbHWg?t=1h19m4s
I think the point he/and I are trying to make is that a lot of top players do not drop their elbow. There may be times when they drop it a little bit, but that's well after contact with the CB has been made. I think Dennis Orcollo is a good example of a player that does this.
I think I'll take a rain check on that.
I would certainly think that a 3rd. level advanced instructor should know all about what you're asking, even if one does not choose to teach it.
My marine investgative background makes me suspicious when things just don't seem right.
Are you refering to the guy in black with the blackk hat? If so. That is who dropped the elbow on the first break ball shot & his elbow drops on nearly every 'full' stroke shot & his cue is often rocking up & down & not moving in a staright line.
I understand the point the two of you are trying to make & I am not in total disagreement, but that was not the specific subject matter. Things keep getting taken out of context.
Keep in mind, a straight moving cue. When the stroke is beyond the range that the wrist/grip will allow the cue to move in a straight line it can no longer do so unless the elbow moves if the body stays still.
I think this thread took this turn because a comment was made by a World Champion that one should not be thinking about one's elbow but about delivering the cue in a straight line. I agreed & I still do.
A cue stick is straight. We basically are referring to two diferent strokes.
One where the cue goes straight back to & through. In that stroke it does not matter when the elbow moves. It will move when needed to make the cue move in a straight line. One does not make the elbow move it is allowed to move. The focus is the straight movement of the cue.
The other is a stroke that basically moves the connected point of the cue at the hand in an arch. In that stroke, when the elbow moves could be disadvantages, depending on the specific set up.
One makes more sense to me than the other.
Regards,
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Yes, but if you click on the link I provided, that's Stuart Pettman.
It's the same link Tony gave, but just further into the video. For some reason, Stuart's run doesn't start until a bit later. Maybe Tony didn't realize it before he posted.
When you have time to kill, I suggest watching Stuart play. He's pretty good.
Just watched a bit of Stuart. Much nicer than the guy in black. Here's the thing. His follow through has an elbow drop. He takes it back & has a pause, then comes back to the ball & sends the cue straight through the ball.
I personally prefer that than the hand coming up & the elbow staying still.
I just think that is much better. Naturally it is JMHO.
I personally prefer that than the hand coming up & the elbow staying still.
I just think that is much better. Naturally it is JMHO.
Here's why I'm suspicious. You're asking me what the disadvantages are. Don't you know? I can understand your asking the first question, but the second one makes it a quiz.
No thanks. Not interested in getting into it here. I'll save it for my students who come for lessons.
I thought the purposeful elbow drop on follow through had something to do with a "piston stroke" vice the more conventional "pendulum stroke". I used to use a piston stroke, but found I was twisting my wrist before and during impact, so I went with the pendulum stroke; which I really like. I still have a little elbow drop, but that's only when following through with a little pepper for stroke shots...I'm not sure I can discern any advantages or disadvantages to elbow drop after contact, to me it seems to be related to how far I feel I need to follow through on a particular shot...any thoughts from the instructors on this?
Extending the follow through means commiting before that time in the final forward stroke to a smoothly accelerating cue. If you prefer, you can say "should have an extended follow through when stroke is completed"... 
Just curious, why do you refer to the "pendulum stroke" as the more coventional stroke?
conventional: of traditional design
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I meant "conventional" in terms of "traditional" or "commonly accepted"...seems like most instructors (here and elsewhere) seem to advocate it over the piston stroke; maybe it's easier to teach a beginner to use it with better consistency than a piston stroke which has a few more moving parts?
Thanks,
I was just wondering, because I would not refer to it as traditional & by the shear numbers of strokes out there that differ from it, I would not call it the commonly accepted one either.
Regards,
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Has anyone changed anything about their stroke since this thread originated???
Actually yes, well not entirely. But since CJ started this thread he also brought out TOI. I have been using english & spinning the ball for 46 years. Since utilizing the squirt/deflection my grip & stroke has become more compact with a firmer grip from a longer stroke with a looser connection to the cue.
For 46 years I wanted to get a high spin to speed ratio to get a low net of squirt.
With TOI I want to get a high speed to spin ratio with a high net of squirt.
I guess I'll stop there & maybe avoid another conflict.
Regards,
Matt...How far past the CB would your definition of an "extended followthrough" be?...6", 12", 24"...or does it vary, depending on the the shot?
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Extending the follow through means commiting before that time in the final forward stroke to a smoothly accelerating cue. If you prefer, you can say "should have an extended follow through when stroke is completed"...
hands - this is where you get feedback from the cue and develop your touch and feel
Yes, the forearm/wrist/hands/fingers are essential, however, thinking about what the elbow does during the stroke would be like a Nascar driver thinking about what his back tires are doing.
Sure they are essential to the car and driving, however, the "front end" needs to be the focus. The Game is played with the hands....this is where you get feedback from the cue and develop your touch and feel for the Game. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Yes, the forearm/wrist/hands/fingers are essential, however, thinking about what the elbow does during the stroke would be like a Nascar driver thinking about what his back tires are doing.
Sure they are essential to the car and driving, however, the "front end" needs to be the focus. The Game is played with the hands....this is where you get feedback from the cue and develop your touch and feel for the Game. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Pendulum requires fewer muscles and is thus easier to teach to a newer player. When proper pre shot routine is followed along with proper set up the cue is level at point of contact. The initial subject of this thread was draw and there is every type of stroke out there used by many players who can draw the hell out of the ball. I know that the pendulum stroke can because I have seen Scott Lee draw 1-7 diamonds at demand and effortlessly. ( Scott, my buddy and cue maker is now a definite convert to the pendulum now and makes me sick with envy when he draws from 6 diamonds directly back)
Neil,your comment about Hopkins and his short back swing was totally accurate. Another player who had a very short back swing was Keith McCready. I use one because arthritis prohibits me from using a long back swing and as you mentioned it is easier to hit the right spot on the CB.
11 pages of opinions and concepts and the thing that stands out most too me is the patience, wisdom and self control of RandyG. He knows that the only person that can be converted to anything is the one who voluntarily comes with an open mind.
Neil,your comment about Hopkins and his short back swing was totally accurate. Another player who had a very short back swing was Keith McCready. I use one because arthritis prohibits me from using a long back swing and as you mentioned it is easier to hit the right spot on the CB.
11 pages of opinions and concepts and the thing that stands out most too me is the patience, wisdom and self control of RandyG. He knows that the only person that can be converted to anything is the one who voluntarily comes with an open mind.
You were one of the guys vehemently arguing against evolution. I'm not surprised you interpreted it that way.
I was being facetious.
I did not argue 'vehemantly' reagarding evolution. I was merely discussing the topic.
You coming here so far after the date of that post (six(6) months) & pulling that up to quote & comment on says volumes.
You have a nice life,
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