Is there/Was there ever a BCA rule stating BIH after scratch on the break?

CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
This comes up constantly in my room.
We all grew up with BCA rules.
A few players "remember hearing somewhere" that BCA changed the rule so that after a scratch on the break,
it's bill in hand (rather than having to shoot from the kitchen). I was told this at some point.
Another BCA league player remembers a ref pointing this out in some regional/finals thing.

But when I look up rules online anywhere there's no mention of it.
Was this ever a thing or just one of those phantom rules that got invented out of nowhere?
 
BCA rules vs BCAPL rules

BCAPL rules state:
"4. If you foul on a legal break and do not pocket the 8-ball, your inning ends and any
other pocketed object balls remain pocketed. Your opponent receives ball in hand."

BCA or World Pool Billiards Association rules state:

"(h) if the breaker fouls in any manner not listed above, the following player has the option of (1) accepting the balls in position, or (2) taking cue ball in hand behind the headstring."

I assumed 8 ball. These quotes are under 8 ball rules.
 
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CreeDo said:
This comes up constantly in my room.
We all grew up with BCA rules.
A few players "remember hearing somewhere" that BCA changed the rule so that after a scratch on the break,
it's bill in hand (rather than having to shoot from the kitchen). I was told this at some point.
Another BCA league player remembers a ref pointing this out in some regional/finals thing.

But when I look up rules online anywhere there's no mention of it.
Was this ever a thing or just one of those phantom rules that got invented out of nowhere?
Click to expand...
Look again at the current rulebook for the BCA-PL. Any foul on the break results in ball in hand, not shooting from the kitchen. It used to be shoot from the kitchen; this was changed a couple of years ago.
 
Just to be clear, the official BCA rule is the same as the WPA rule. You get BIH in the kitchen. The BCAPL (not run by the BCA) rules state you get BIH anywhere after all scratches. I know this seems confusing but BCA and BCAPL are two entirely different organizations that no longer have anything to do with each other.
 
Very good point Jude...BCAPL is not part of BCA. When the BCA first sold off the Pool League portion of their business, the BCAPL began. I asked why they were allowed to carry the name "BCA". I was told that the BCA told the BCAPL that it was required with the sale but the "BCA" part would be dropped after a couple of years.

It's always been confusing. Now it seems to be just as confusing as ever with people assuming that they are affiliated.

The WPA is the real World rules but most of the 'Leagues' around the world have adapted their own little particular curve'balls to "make the rules better" so now you have to be careful whose rules you play by.

As far as I know, the ACS is the only 'League' that uses the rules outlined strictly by the WPA. Too bad eveyone else has to throw out their own curve-balls...it would be great if everyone played by the same rules but that just aint gonna happen.

L8R...Ken
 
Good points

SKUNKBOY said:
Very good point Jude...BCAPL is not part of BCA. When the BCA first sold off the Pool League portion of their business, the BCAPL began. I asked why they were allowed to carry the name "BCA". I was told that the BCA told the BCAPL that it was required with the sale but the "BCA" part would be dropped after a couple of years.

It's always been confusing. Now it seems to be just as confusing as ever with people assuming that they are affiliated.

The WPA is the real World rules but most of the 'Leagues' around the world have adapted their own little particular curve'balls to "make the rules better" so now you have to be careful whose rules you play by.

As far as I know, the ACS is the only 'League' that uses the rules outlined strictly by the WPA. Too bad eveyone else has to throw out their own curve-balls...it would be great if everyone played by the same rules but that just aint gonna happen.

L8R...Ken
Click to expand...

Good points!

The PBIA and the BCAPLstill use the BCA Official Rules and Records Book. The changes in the rules made in recent years were announced and for a while, they included an insert about the rule changes. Now they just supply the old book, which has not been edited to include the changes. Yes, it's confusing for everyone...
 
CreeDo,

The rule change was posted on the BCAPL website on June 1, 2010. Same change in league policies that no longer allows a player to replace an object ball if a foul is caused placing cue ball in hand. There are several other changes to the rules of BCAPL 8 ball on that day. The changes can be found at www.playbca.com. Under the Leagues heading, the drop down leads to League Policies. Follow league policies down to June 1, 2010.

Lyn
 
ball in hand

is the bca rule ? if you scratch or foul on the break it is ball in hand any where on the table?
 
Ugh. Kind of a mess. Thanks greg, you're right, I meant 8 ball.

It would be smart if each site explicitly stated that BCA and BCAPL rules differ. It's easy to imagine league players who just google "BCA rules" and then get into arguments on league night because their search yielded BCA rules.

Additionally, the BCAPL rulebook could maybe emphasize the common scratch-on-the-break situation a little more. The fact that it's BIH and not behind the line is kind of tacked on as an afterthought.

I'm just gonna tell my buddies "we're going by WPA rules" from now on, there's only one set (I hope).
 
CreeDo said:
Ugh. Kind of a mess. Thanks greg, you're right, I meant 8 ball.

It would be smart if each site explicitly stated that BCA and BCAPL rules differ. It's easy to imagine league players who just google "BCA rules" and then get into arguments on league night because their search yielded BCA rules.

Additionally, the BCAPL rulebook could maybe emphasize the common scratch-on-the-break situation a little more. The fact that it's BIH and not behind the line is kind of tacked on as an afterthought.

I'm just gonna tell my buddies "we're going by WPA rules" from now on, there's only one set (I hope).
Click to expand...

playing by wpa rules to avoid rule issues is the smart thing to do to prevent arguments creedo.

as others have stated , the rule was changed a couple of years ago to ball in hand.... at the national level.

however, at the local level its a different story. local bcapl rules are much like bar rules, it depends on the region you play in.

gonna quote the big man himself " mark griffin".

bca does not care exactly how you play your leagues. they dont initiate games, handicaps or points . pay your sanction fees and do pretty much whatever you want.
 
Donny Lutz said:
Good points!

The PBIA and the BCAPLstill use the BCA Official Rules and Records Book. The changes in the rules made in recent years were announced and for a while, they included an insert about the rule changes. Now they just supply the old book, which has not been edited to include the changes. Yes, it's confusing for everyone...
Click to expand...

Donny

As a PBIA Instructor I use all the rule books.
APA-BCAPL-BCA-WPA-VNEA-TAP

randyg
 
Bill Stock is out sick or he wuold be responding to this

BUT . . . . . .

WPA rules had the ALL BALL FOULS in their rules. I don't think that would work in the US bar tables situations. BCAPL released their own rule book for the 2007 season. Another rule that does not work in bar leagues is the 'placing the cue on the table' - which became a foul because of the possibility of using it as an aiming device.

Those two exceptions would cause a lot of problems while playing bar (league) pool - if enforced. So there is a 'little' history on how things evolved.

I agree in principle that it would be nice if all the leagues used the same rules - unfortunately, I don't think that is going to occur.

The BCAPL rules are 99.9% the same as WPA with just a few minor adjustments.

The re-write that the BCAPL did was acclaimed by many as the best set of rules out there - and also had the 'Applied Rulings' section which aided in understanding.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
 
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