Yeah, why doesn't the international community listen to the likes of you and fat boy?
(eyes rolling)
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Not To Beat A Dead Elephant
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Yeah, why doesn't the international community listen to the likes of you and fat boy?
(eyes rolling)
Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk
What is your point, Freddie!? Crap, now I'm a thread hijacker. But I gotta ask....Freddie, what is your point?
If you're saying that some areas of Africa have a stable elephant population, yes, I agree with that.
If you're saying that the elephant population of Africa as a whole is stable, I don't agree with that.
Have we been agreeing on the same thing all this time?
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If you're saying that some areas of Africa have a stable elephant population, yes, I agree with that.
If you're saying that the elephant population of Africa as a whole is stable, I don't agree with that.
Have we been agreeing on the same thing all this time?
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you asked Eric/Fatboy to show you somewhere on the Internet that there were lots of Elephants. I did that for him. They even have legal hunting there as part of their need to cull.
My point is also that the cause for the demise of the elephant is human encroachment and the inabilty to fund the types of programs that are proven to work in the southern African states. Your link shows that someone finally has woken up to those two points as the majority of those bullet points address those two specifically. But the programs need funding.
The funding of such herd management wasn't explicitly stated that I could see and that funding was available. Someone correct me if it was explicit and I just didnt see it.
If culling happens in the southern states where elephants are over-populous and the ivory from culling were LEGAL to sell, that's one source for funding.
The irony is that by prohibiting that sale and then just burning it, the one obvious source to help fund their survival is being cutoff.
Freddie <~~~ poaching might be reduced if there less reason to poach
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because here in america they are brain washed, stupid is as stupid does....
which reminds me, ho come you aint called? you got so much to say, im ready to talk 702-241-8000
Good post. No surprise that it will be mostly ignored. For most people the question of whether killing an animal is right or wrong is based solely on population numbers. It's pretty sad.
Ok, I think I've got it. Back to my first post...I didn't ask Fatboy to show me where there are a lot of elephants. I asked him to show me something that says there's no problem with the African elephant population because his view is that the elephant population issues are all American Media BS that he is really sick of. What you keep mentioning is the elephant population in specific areas....not as a whole.
But to summarize your position...you say that there is poaching in some areas because they don't have the same quality of conservation as the thriving areas...so they should kill off (cull) the extra elephants from thriving areas, sell off the ivory, and use that money to better fund conservation in the areas with poaching problems. Is this accurate?
Pretty close. The culling already happens where elephants thrive and are populous. They warehouse the ivory. They have hunts that foreigners pay for. Ivory costs lots to warehouse. If aren't allowed to sell it, they have to burn tons. People assume the burning ivory is from poaching.
The suggestion by people much smarter than I is to sell the tons and tons of ivory to fund herd management programs in elephant-decimated areas that have been shown to work in elephant thriving areas.
Last I checked, elephants were even taken off the threatened list in some areas. Clearly some species of African elephants are endangered.
Poaching will still happen. But the elephants would actually help their own cause to rejuvenate their own numbers if the culled tusks were allowed to be sold.
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Responding to a thread, then getting responses to your post, then giving your phone # out because you are too stupid to actually support your statement and acting like you are so tough because someone hasn't called you is some p_ssy shit.
I support getting all of the telemarketing scammers who preyed on elderly victims together on an island and the victim's children can hunt and shoot them. We will, of course, use their empty skulls as inlays in cues.
I support getting all of the telemarketing scammers who preyed on elderly victims together on an island and the victim's children can hunt and shoot them. We will, of course, use their empty skulls as inlays in cues.
no, the ivory from culls is wear housed, the $$$ from people who go hunting and pay $10,000-$20,000 or more for the licence to shoot one bull jumbo is where the $$$ comes from for anti poaching efforts(govt sponsored anti poaching) and also from Park revenue and taxes imposed on safari companies that lease Govt land to conduct Safari's on. See its a real business, not a bunch of rich blood thirst rich jack-asses blasting everything that moves.
i miss the scamming days, i really do i was so good at it too. Lets see that ended in 96. i did it for 4 months,
have you ever robbed anyone playng pool? telemarketing is no different
Just so I fully understand, because someone pays $10-20,000 for a government controlled "hunt" that means they are not a blood-thirsty, rich jackass? I understand the need to cull, however I think its sad that folks get a thrill our of "hunting" in this way. I guess my only concern would be if the government is making a decent amount of money from these type of hunts, then it would be in their best interest to keep them going (keep the elephants "over-populated"). If they considered other types of population control, they wouldn't make as much, would they?
i never got a "thrill" shooting a elephant or anything else for that matter. some people do, but hunting aint about killing. go spend a month in the bush with ZERO radio, TV, internet, anything(except a sat phone) live off what you grow/hunt and your whole out look will change, living off the land, nothing like it. its cool when you dont know what day of the week it is or month for that matter-all you look at is weather the sun is up or down and where your gun is, did you remember to take your maliara meds, and how the garden is doing. you dont think of $, time, current events.
Funny thing is on 9/11 I happened to be in the air when the Twin Towers went down. I heard of it when I landed but not much just there was big problems, I was with my mom(took her that time). I was gone for a month, by the time I got back, they decided not to show the buildings collapse. Whats funny(not haha funny but odd) is i couldnt imagine a jet hitting a massive building would react the way they did. So for over a year I never saw 9/11, I heard people talk about the curfew, planes grounded, etc. But I was in the bush, its such a vacuum that when your there your oblivious to everything. its embarassing to say but to me its like 9/11 didnt happen because I didnt live it, see it for over a year etc. It was perhaps the worst tragity since Vietnam, Pearl Harbor. My point is when your in the bush, your whole way changes, the stock market dont matter, did SVB win again? who cares? What about the mortgage? dont matter.
your whole way of being and priorities change, is my gun working?(yes I almost got hurt/killed a couple times) I had a friend get killed this year a guide Wayne a PH Professional Hunter. Is it goint to rain? there aint irrigation for the crops, did the staff bring the fire wood(if not a cold shower). all that stuff we take for granted is what becomes important and what seems important here right now dont mean shit in the bush.
ever hear the term "Bushwhacked" Well i seen the people who are, they are head cases LOL, wow they litterly dont know what year it is.
One thing that does matter more in the bush than home but matters in both is gas, if you run out in the bush it might bea 12-15 hour walk back to camp. here we have AAA , so yeah the oil man wins again in both spots.
to answer you more specifically, most ppl dont get a thrill from killing. I been around lots of ppl who hunt in Africa. thrill killers are few and far between(some Saudi clients are I have been told).
yes the govt rakes in huge $$, they lease the land to the safari operator, and get licencing fees, and the safari operator makes the spread. I havent hunted in 7 years for a number of reasons. I have spent $100,000 for 30 day hunt, I got the friends and family price what I did would have cost $250,000 one year(in Botswana that hunt would have been $500,000). the least i spent was $35k-$40K for a 17 day hunt(my second)
Safari is like pool there is skill, if you want to become a hunter. Its possible to blindly walk behind the PH and shoot what he points at but most clinets 80% +/- of clients want to learn some about hunting. As for my self I'm a all in sort of guy, i wanted to be able to stalk my own elephant. I almost got there-i needed another season. Which brings me ti another topic. the PH's go thru rigorous testing to get their licences as well. more checks and balances for wild life preservation that was neglected in this thread and american media.
So is there enough $ for adequate anti poaching? and Africa is corrupt on all levels(very sad and another topic). but the PH's safari operators, most Govt Game scouts, CITIES do their best to ensure there will be something sustainable next season.
and YES I hate poachers, there are 2 types, armed and snare. the snare poachers are looking for food, armed are looking for Rhino and elephant. mostly Rhino tho. So how do we as people spread the resources around? thats the real ???? because if your following aq elephant you can be sure they are shooting a rhino, if your following a rhino-then the elephant has a problem. What about the kudu, impala, wart hogs, duiker, eland(shot to near extiction for meat by white zimbabweans-why not fuss about that?), Zebra, and 100 more kinds of game that have pressure on them?
point is there is no easy answer, in Kenya a few years back there was a elephant with tusks that almost touched the ground, he was amazing(i'd post a link if i could remember his name) , his tusks were worth $1,000,000 easy or more. the keynan govt actually put a anti poaching squad to follow that jumbo for years 24/7/365 until he died of natural causes. it would be nice to do that to all the rhino's, but who can afford that-we got wars to pay for.....
i'm done, again-honest i aint making this up. if i was i'd write a book, i'm not that creative.
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the African govts are not all that smart to sell the ivory from culls most of the time. Also bad press(like they care)
when you shoot a cull there aint all that much ivory, your shooting cows and calfs. the bulls are off doing their thing. So you might go shoot 12-20 jumbo's in a cull and net out 100 pounds of ivory. How its done i the matriarch(SP?) is shot first then the culler(which I'd personally never do) then looks at the heard and sees who's next and shoots that jumbo 2nd, the calfs are last. i have seen the videos, f*cking horrible, cant stand it.
the reason they cull in Kruger??? you'll like this.....to keep the trees pretty for the tourists. Elephants push over trees for fun, like house cats scratch up the couch. and they also eat bark, massive amounts they have very inefficient digestive tracts, so they destroy the land where ever they pitch up to live. I saw a area in Matetsi unit 5 in Zim that was lush and beautiful in 2000, by 2003 it looked like the moon, the elephants pitched up there for a year or 2 dring the off season and destroyed it, they are very destructive-because of their size and njust how they are(they push over windmills unless you dig a mote around them). Since Kruger is disneyland they want it pretty so they cull the hell out of the elephants there-its not feasible to relocate them. so in the interest of nicer landscape they hammer the jumbo's. cows and calf's.
Aw shoot, all I really wanted was invitation to call you. Sniffle.
You can sit around in the middle of nowhere and live off the land without killing an elephant... People get a kick out of killing. They hang the heads on a wall and show off how well they killed something purely for sport. Trophies. But I guess you're gonna compare that to winning a pool tournament...
That's a very small percentage of people you are describing.
It's a small percentage of people that rape children. Doesn't mean it should be ignored. Not to compare the two...