Who wants to see CJ on TAR?

[lfigueroa]

How did you do? I bet CJ will play you some one pocket as well and give you some weight.

As for me challenging you if I remember right you are retired Air Force. You have also attended the SBE in the past. So it's entirely fair to let you know that IF you attend it then I am willing to spot you in one hole as I have stated several times. It's much easier for you to run around to tournaments than it is for me. That said I don't expect you to go anywhere just to beat me out of a little lunch money.

All I am doing Lou is giving you a shot to avenge the loss you took playing me one pocket. As a C-player and since I was an aiming system user there should have been no way for me to take even one game off of you. Especially since back then I couldn't even spell one pocket. Now I can spell one but still can't get through pocket. But I am always willing to give up the nuts playing you just to see if I can out run them. I am sure it would be over in five games but who knows I could get lucky again.

Looking forward to your videos. Straight pool high runs, one pocket runs, show us what you have got. If you need to see how it's done for inspiration there are plenty of videos now on YouTube of aiming system users putting up great runs.

1-2 and 3-2. And, I've already told CJ how I'd play him some 1pocket. Of course that doesn't mean that he, just like you, won't continue to issue challenges that are DOA. It's your attention getting MO.

I attended the SBE once several years ago and wrote that it's not my cup of tea. I have told you, specifically and *repeatedly,* that I would not be there, but you still like to puff up your chest and throw out a challenge you know won't happen.

Lastly, the line of guys that has beaten me is long and several wide. That you still remember beating me in at informal get-together all those years ago, and still bring it up over and over, is a testament to how small your world is. If it weren't for you I wouldn't be able to name a single person I played at that event, lol.

Lou Figueroa

 

[BeiberLvr]

The first stream we ever did was at Dan Tull's place for his $3K entry ring game in July 2007. We had no clue what we were doing. We unpacked the video gear from B&H on site. First time ever using it. To my knowledge it was the first live tournament pool stream on Ustream. It was completely free. We were like kids at Christmas we were so excited just to be there. I sold a $1500 personal camera lens to pay my way there. Nasty and I shared a room for the first and only time. He snored at a decibel level equal to that of a Boeing 737 at take off.

One player in the field adamantly refused to play on the free stream unless he was paid upfront. If everyone would of taken that attitude we probably would have packed it in right there but only one guy did. Since then we have paid players well over $100K in fees for playing in PPV matches after we built our skills and a following through the free streaming.

We will pay out probably another $50,000 this year alone. After you figure in all the hotel rooms we pay for this year that means we will be close to what CSI, Diamond and Turning Stone add. The only difference is a player is 100% guaranteed to cash in a TAR event. Because some guys in the beginning gave us a chance to get started.

Do you remember who the guy was who refused to play on the free stream? I do.

We managed to survive without you when we needed help. Now that we don't I see no reason to give you a platform for an infomercial. The game is the teacher.

Justin

When you say, "upfront" does that mean that all players that played on the free stream received some sort of compensation on the back end?

If that was the case, then is it possible CJ was just hesitant about taking a chance with a start up business that he probably knew nothing about? In all reality, there are a lot of shady people in the pool business. Luckily now we know that you aren't one of them, but hindsight is 20/20, so they say.

I don't care about who's right or wrong about something that happened almost 6 years ago. You both are grown men that are fully capable of sitting down and getting things settled. It's obvious by the poll results that there are people that want to see him play [on any stream]. I only chose TAR as an option, because even though the others are great, TAR is my personal favorite.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Justin

When you say, "upfront" does that mean that all players that played on the free stream received some sort of compensation on the back end?

If that was the case, then is it possible CJ was just hesitant about taking a chance with a start up business that he probably knew nothing about? In all reality, there are a lot of shady people in the pool business. Luckily now we know that you aren't one of them, but hindsight is 20/20, so they say.

I don't care about who's right or wrong about something that happened almost 6 years ago. You both are grown men that are fully capable of sitting down and getting things settled. It's obvious by the poll results that there are people that want to see him play [on any stream]. I only chose TAR as an option, because even though the others are great, TAR is my personal favorite.

I'd say its obvious since he said he had to sell something to pay for his ticket and that it was a free stream, no one got paid.

Also, some small poll on AZ is hardly a measuring stick for something like this. You could make a poll with ANY pro player's name and the result would be overwhelming in favor of that player on stream. Its not the player driving the votes, merely the fact of the stream happening. Name a single top level pro(past or present) that wouldn't get the majority vote to be on TAR.

If what he said is in fact true, I would completely understand not having CJ on. He isn't a huge draw such as Earl, and they have no issues getting people to watch without Earl on there anymore. This seems to be a recurring theme with male pool players. They want blood from a turnip, and none of them want to "give up" anything for a chance that something good can work out in the future.

 

[lfigueroa]

JB,

I understand that Lou started the whole thing with his immature "How'd he do at Tunica?" comment. Which, still has absolutely no bearing on how CJ would do in a gambling/exhibition match a year later.

However, PLEASE, do not turn this thread into a woofing/aiming system users vs. naysayers argument.

If Lou responds to your post, please just ignore it, or make another thread.

I would argue that a player's performance in a tournament does have bearing on what he can do competitively nowadays. If nothing else you need some sort of gauge to know who to put him up against so it wouldn't be lopsided, one way or the other. If he had a high finish at an open event then you know he should be put up against a top flight player. But if he got in and went two and out, maybe he should be playing John Barton.

Tunica was too long ago for you? Well, what about the US 9Ball Open? CSI 10Ball Open? Anything on the East Coast? West Coast? Any Texas events? The DCC a couple of months ago? For that matter: has he competed in anything lately? Anyone know?

Lou Figueroa

 

[Perk]

If he can show up at 75% of the speed I've seen in older videos, then I think it could end up being a decent match.

I would watch it as I like all the TAR spreads.

However, I do not think you understand the difference between the 25% that would be missing and just how close the differences between the top pros are. If he is not firing on all cylindars then he would get blown out.

The newer equipment and fast cloth have closed the gap between the top players. I cant speak to how it was 25 years ago on slower cloth but I would guess that the gaps between the upper players were wider than they are now.

 

[Hungarian]

You're so classy Lou

Well, it's just a matter of what he's done competitively lately, that's all. Shooting on your home table, releasing edited videos is one thing. I was just wondering, since he said he was there, how he did.

Lou Figueroa

 

[BeiberLvr]

I would argue that a player's performance in a tournament does have bearing on what he can do competitively nowadays. If nothing else you need some sort of gauge to know who to put him up against so it wouldn't be lopsided, one way or the other. If he had a high finish at an open event then you know he should be put up against a top flight player. But if he got in and went two and out, maybe he should be playing John Barton.

Tunica was too long ago for you? Well, what about the US 9Ball Open? CSI 10Ball Open? Anything on the East Coast? West Coast? Any Texas events? The DCC a couple of months ago? For that matter: has he competed in anything lately? Anyone know?

Lou Figueroa

Yes, because every player that doesn't do well in tournaments with short races and a heavy luck factor will do terrible in a gambling match with longer races and multiple sets.

 

[lfigueroa]

Yes, because every player that doesn't do well in tournaments with short races and a heavy luck factor will do terrible in a gambling match with longer races and multiple sets.

No, of course not. However, the cream does usually rise to top, even in the short race format. (Look at what Efren accomplished at his peak.) If you've ever looked up at the banners with all the names and pictures of past champions hanging from the rafters at the DCC, you'd know what I mean. The same names and faces are up there over and over. Same with the top finishers -- it's always the usual suspects.

In any case, it'd be interesting to know how he did, and who he beat, and who he did not.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JAM]

No, of course not. However, the cream does usually rise to top, even in the short race format. (Look at what Efren accomplished at his peak.) If you've ever looked up at the banners with all the names and pictures of past champions hanging from the rafters at the DCC, you'd know what I mean. The same names and faces are up there over and over. Same with the top finishers -- it's always the usual suspects.

In any case, it'd be interesting to know how he did, and who he beat, and who he did not.

Lou Figueroa

Some players may be more about the action games than tin cups at tournaments. As Johnston City Hustling Video on YouTube states, the tournaments were only a gathering place for the hustlers. The real action happened after the tournament.

The championship titles and tin cups may be important to some, but at the end of the day, that and a quarter won't buy you a cup of coffee in the pool world. :embarrassed2:

 

[lfigueroa]

Some players may be more about the action games than tin cups at tournaments. As Johnston City Hustling Video on YouTube states, the tournaments were only a gathering place for the hustlers. The real action happened after the tournament.

The championship titles and tin cups may be important to some, but at the end of the day, that and a quarter won't buy you a cup of coffee in the pool world. :embarrassed2:

True. But we know CJ is a tournament player as well as a cash player. He's highlighted his tournament finishes plenty here.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JAM]

True. But we know CJ is a tournament player as well as a cash player. He's highlighted his tournament finishes plenty here.

Lou Figueroa

True dat. At the end of the day, though, with so little money in the tournament payouts, I'd imagine gambling would be more inviting in today's pool world as far as turning a profit.

Of course, with the advent of digital technology, in order to get down, you have to negotiate, which takes out the barkfest. Sometimes there's so much negotiation beforehand, it's end up not really being worth it to play. I mean, as one example, when you have stakehorses offering the player 20 percent after expenses to engage in a challenge match, it's not that appealing anymore.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say today's tournaments are geared more for the weekend warriors, recreational players, amateurs, and league shooters. I think we both know that this is where pool shines brightest in the United States today. :smile:

If C.J. comes out of his retirement and wants to compete, I don't think it would take him too long to reach a level where he can cash. The thing about players of his caliber is that they can play all games and adjust to all equipment quickly. Believe me, if he wants to gamble for high stakes, he doesn't need anybody to broadcast it for him. I think he's got enough clout to get it accomplished.

 

[lfigueroa]

True dat. At the end of the day, though, with so little money in the tournament payouts, I'd imagine gambling would be more inviting in today's pool world as far as turning a profit.

Of course, with the advent of digital technology, in order to get down, you have to negotiate, which takes out the barkfest. Sometimes there's so much negotiation beforehand, it's end up not really being worth it to play. I mean, when you have stakehorses offering the player 20 percent after expenses, it's not that appealing anymore.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say today's tournaments are geared more for the weekend warriors, recreational players, amateurs, and league shooters. I think we both know that this is where pool shines brightest in the United States today. :smile:

If C.J. comes out of his retirement and wants to compete, I don't think it would take him too long to reach a level where he can cash. The thing about players of his caliber is that they can play all games and adjust to all equipment quickly. Believe me, if he wants to gamble for high stakes, he doesn't need anybody to broadcast it for him. I think he's got enough clout to get it accomplished.

Pool is a funny game. Just because you had it once, doesn't mean you can get it back later in life. So, who knows. Tis a mystery.

Lou Figueroa

 

[branpureza]

The first stream we ever did was at Dan Tull's place for his $3K entry ring game in July 2007. We had no clue what we were doing. We unpacked the video gear from B&H on site. First time ever using it. To my knowledge it was the first live tournament pool stream on Ustream. It was completely free. We were like kids at Christmas we were so excited just to be there. I sold a $1500 personal camera lens to pay my way there. Nasty and I shared a room for the first and only time. He snored at a decibel level equal to that of a Boeing 737 at take off.

One player in the field adamantly refused to play on the free stream unless he was paid upfront. If everyone would of taken that attitude we probably would have packed it in right there but only one guy did. Since then we have paid players well over $100K in fees for playing in PPV matches after we built our skills and a following through the free streaming.

We will pay out probably another $50,000 this year alone. After you figure in all the hotel rooms we pay for this year that means we will be close to what CSI, Diamond and Turning Stone add. The only difference is a player is 100% guaranteed to cash in a TAR event. Because some guys in the beginning gave us a chance to get started.

Do you remember who the guy was who refused to play on the free stream? I do.

We managed to survive without you when we needed help. Now that we don't I see no reason to give you a platform for an infomercial. The game is the teacher.

"And boom goes the dynamite."

The game is the teacher.

 

[vapoolplayer]

In fact, I'd go so far as to say today's tournaments are geared more for the weekend warriors, recreational players, amateurs, and league shooters. I think we both know that this is where pool shines brightest in the United States today. :smile:

I don't think that's the case at all. When was the last time a recreational player won a major tournament? You rarely see a recreational player win a regional tour, let alone any tournament on a national scale.

I do agree pool in general is geared toward recreational players, as they make up the majority of players, and are thusly represented so.

You could make the case that only a handful of players are professionals, as most pro speed players have some other means of income, but lets not argue semantics.

I'd say pool in general(righfully so) is geared towards recreational players, but tournaments(minus the APA,BCA, etc league finals each year) are geared towards the open/pro level players.

 

[JAM]

I don't think that's the case at all. When was the last time a recreational player won a major tournament? You rarely see a recreational player win a regional tour, let alone any tournament on a national scale.

I do agree pool in general is geared toward recreational players, as they make up the majority of players, and are thusly represented so.

You could make the case that only a handful of players are professionals, as most pro speed players have some other means of income, but lets not argue semantics.

I'd say pool in general(righfully so) is geared towards recreational players, but tournaments(minus the APA,BCA, etc league finals each year) are geared towards the open/pro level players.

I see more league-type tournament these days than for pros. Even the regional tours adjusted their rules to handicap the pros, i.e., having them pay higher entry fees or spotting games. Keith played in a one-hole tournament in Virginia and had to spot his opponent 13 to 3. And he hadn't picked up a cue in years, to boot. :grin:

Steve T. -- can't remember his last name -- a regular player at Snookers in Rhode Island won the $25,000-added Joss event at Turning Stone one year. I don't think I would consider him a pro, as he's more a weekend warrior. Plays strong, but I think he has a full-time job during the week, is my point. IOW, he doesn't play for a living.

 

[vapoolplayer]

I see more league-type tournament these days than for pros. Even the regional tours adjusted their rules to handicap the pros, i.e., having them pay higher entry fees or spotting games. Keith played in a one-hole tournament in Virginia and had to spot his opponent 13 to 3. And he hadn't picked up a cue in years, to boot. :grin:

Steve T. -- can't remember his last name -- a regular player at Snookers in Rhode Island won the $25,000-added Joss event at Turning Stone one year. I don't think I would consider him a pro, as he's more a weekend warrior. Plays strong, but I think he has a full-time job during the week, is my point. IOW, he doesn't play for a living.

That's what I mean. If you're calling a pro player just someone who only plays pool.....how many people really do that in the country without relying on a real job, part time job, poker, etc?

Maybe 20 people in the country?

 

[crabbcatjohn]

The game is the teacher...lol

The first stream we ever did was at Dan Tull's place for his $3K entry ring game in July 2007. We had no clue what we were doing. We unpacked the video gear from B&H on site. First time ever using it. To my knowledge it was the first live tournament pool stream on Ustream. It was completely free. We were like kids at Christmas we were so excited just to be there. I sold a $1500 personal camera lens to pay my way there. Nasty and I shared a room for the first and only time. He snored at a decibel level equal to that of a Boeing 737 at take off.

One player in the field adamantly refused to play on the free stream unless he was paid upfront. If everyone would of taken that attitude we probably would have packed it in right there but only one guy did. Since then we have paid players well over $100K in fees for playing in PPV matches after we built our skills and a following through the free streaming.

We will pay out probably another $50,000 this year alone. After you figure in all the hotel rooms we pay for this year that means we will be close to what CSI, Diamond and Turning Stone add. The only difference is a player is 100% guaranteed to cash in a TAR event. Because some guys in the beginning gave us a chance to get started.

Do you remember who the guy was who refused to play on the free stream? I do.

We managed to survive without you when we needed help. Now that we don't I see no reason to give you a platform for an infomercial. The game is the teacher.

Epic Burn!...lol

 

[JAM]

That's what I mean. If you're calling a pro player just someone who only plays pool.....how many people really do that in the country without relying on a real job, part time job, poker, etc?

Maybe 20 people in the country?

Definitely agree there. :smile:

 

[vapoolplayer]

Definitely agree there. :smile:

I used to define a "Pro Player" as someone who played pool solely for their income. This was 5-10 years ago.

Sadly, now I think its more appropriate to consider a "Pro Player" as someone who plays at an Open/Pro speed, as the American Professional Pool Player is on the endangered species list.

 

[Celtic]

This is interesting info.....

No doubt, sometimes "life is the teacher". Being a cool guy and helping some people one day might come around and benefit you in the future when they have found success and can then reciprocate the favor you gave them. Karma works both ways in things like this.