I guess I don't get it.

N

nrhoades

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been thinking about this for a while. There’s been a lot of talk and opinions about what needs to happen in pool for it to become something greater than it is now. I'm trying to take a step back and understand the motivations behind what players want the pool industry to be, and I can't definitively say what exactly that is.

I think the three major camps are 120degrees separated: one would like to see pool become a national entertainment event and fit into the professional athletic game mold, similar to how England views their cue sport. The second wants the game structured to support the domination of other players (and maybe androcentricity?) and probably verification of their own self-worth, and the third wishes to commit themselves to the technical challenge and pursuit of pocket billiards excellence independent of the popularity of the game. There’s a mix on where one falls on the triangle.

I find myself in the third camp, where I consider the game a practice in meditation and peacefulness. I like playing the game by myself and I only have a fierce competitive spirit against myself, and not towards other players. In fact I am starting to feel that I don’t even like other pool players. I think I play simply because it helps me relax.

Maybe from my perspective I am having trouble understanding the feeling of urgency for an industrial push that is taking place in the pool world. Is it really all based on money? Is money what is needed to satisfy the investment made in developing a skill in a game?

I wonder if chess players expect an eventual payout? I wonder if they even label themselves as chess players the same way pool players label themselves.
I don’t know. Maybe I don’t understand people that well. :)

Help me understand.
 
The only thing you need to know about people is that they need to eat and pay the rent.

It sounds like you really love the game (I do too), but do you play 12 hours a day like SVB? Unless you're retired or independently wealthy, probably not.

Pool and chess are in very much the same predicament: Only the top 10-20 players in the world can make a living at it. So it remains a hobby for thousands of players who "coulda been a contenda..."
 
bdorman said:
The only thing you need to know about people is that they need to eat and pay the rent.

It sounds like you really love the game (I do too), but do you play 12 hours a day like SVB? Unless you're retired or independently wealthy, probably not.

Pool and chess are in very much the same predicament: Only the top 10-20 players in the world can make a living at it. So it remains a hobby for thousands of players who "coulda been a contenda..."
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This is where this thread needs to end! ;)

Well stated...VERY well stated!
 
You are looking at it & rightly so in a major sense from your own point of veiw & interest.

However, the game 'needs' & should be viable for all aspects, from your personal meditation relaxation aspect, hobby, occassional player, league player, & to the professional level.

Pool Halls are closing right & left. Where will one that can not afford or does not have room for their own table go to enjoy what you do when all of the halls have been closed?

The Game needs to be viable from the top down so the bottom up can have availability to enjoy it as well.

I hope you see my point.

Regards,
 
nrhoades said:
In fact I am starting to feel that I don’t even like other pool players.
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grumpy-cat-part1-1-01-092020192.png
 
I think pool players maybe don't see that pool at the professional level it moves into the realm of entertainment and is no longer a hobby.
This is where market forces take over and determine your worth.
There is nothing wrong with the game however for now it's time has passed.
 
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DoubleD said:
nrhoades,

Well stated.

I agree with you completely. I basically only play with about four people. I find the meditation and relaxation through application of my concentration to be very rewarding.

I don't care a bit whether anyone makes a living playing pool. Why would I lament someone's poor life choice? If SVB plays 12hrs of pool a day, good for him, I hope he enjoys it. If SVB is playing 12hrs of pool a day and starving because of it...why should I care?

I am not saying that I want to see people starving. I'm simply saying that I don't care if there are professional pool players...at all.

A friend of mine told me a story about his father. His dad was an amateur astronomer who was building his own telescope. He kept his project around for years, through several moves. This guy was grinding his own lenses, much the same way that Galileo did. There was never going to be money in it for him, he could have easily bought a better telescope, he wasn't going to win any accolades for doing it. Those things were never the point. He did it to satisfy himself.

I often think that pool would actually be more honorable, that I would like it and other players more, if there was absolutely no money in pool. Destroy the entire concept of making a living playing pool, let it become pure again.

dld
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Whats funny is I see so many who claim not to care what the pro's do have strong outspoken opinions about them.

The internet is such a funny place.
 
DoubleD said:
I'm simply saying that I don't care if there are professional pool players...at all.
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You know what, is that I never really even think about someone choosing to be a professional pool player with no backup plan. I never assumed anyone would base their income off of pool unless they were already an established professional, especially in today's age. If they are scrounging for food and rent money, no wonder they are so ornery! I agree its a poor life choice.

OK, I get that part now, thank you.
 
the pros

I know that, if pool as a way to make a living never becomes viable, it will not affect me. However, I would like to see it happen. I wish somebody who has a lot of money would start a Pro pool tour again. Maybe somebody who wins the lottery and is a great fan of pool. (LOL) If I won the Powerball lottery, I think I would want to do something like that. I enjoy watching excellence, and talented people doing what they do best. The most enjoyment I had from being a spectator and a fan of pool (aside from gambling matches) was during the time there was a Camel ProTour. It was fun to watch excellent pool being played, and I tried to attend every tournament when it came around close to my area. Lots of people have opinions about why pool can't make it as a professional sport, and I have to agree with some of them. It just doesn't seem to pan out as an attractive spectator sport, so not enough people watch it for it to have feasibility or profitablility sufficiently to provide a livelihood for professionals.
 
I wouldn't recommend to anybody to become a professional pool player and nothing else...

I can't believe this mentality is real. I thought it was just a spoof in movies.
 
I play for a variety of reason, but mostly cause I'm good it, I find pool challenging, no two matches are the same. I like getting into the details and making them my own to the point that they are a part of me.

I like to test my skill against other players. This gives me a sense of satisfaction when a play well and when I don't play well, I just get more motivated to improve my consistency. The thing is, this attitude bleeds over to my everyday life. To do my best, to improve on what went before, and never to stop going forward in life.

I'll be honest and when other players just give that "How the hell you make that shot" or see their face when they play a safe and the realize they left me a bank and I'm deadly at banks. So, yeah there is a little bit of ego that is going on there. Bit of showing off if you will, but it takes a bit of ego to play well. The trick is keeping it check and to know when you are being schooled and just sit back and learn.

For me, the ROI, return on investment, in trying to play in the current pro circuit just isn't big enough for me. There is still too much of the Color of Money attitude going on for my likes. I never was into the road scene or the hustler and I really don't won't to be associate with a sport that still has that imagine.

Money is not the reason I play. I have had matches that were hard fought as if the pay off was 50k when it was only 40- 50 bucks.

It is gratifying seeing the outcome of all the hard practice I do come into play during a match. Yep, I'm semi retired and do put in the practice time.

I just wish the local tourney weren't so focused on 9 ball, 10 ball, and one pocket and more non handicap tourney's, more 14.1 and call 8 ball, run what ya brung type thingie. Some of the rules I see used, just make me sick to see those in a pool game. Mostly those are to give the weaker players a chance to win. Kinda like in school where ever one is a winner and gets a trophy no matter how bad you sucked.

Just one bangers view as seen from the west coast.
 
Androcentricity?

nrhoades said:
I've been thinking about this for a while. There’s been a lot of talk and opinions about what needs to happen in pool for it to become something greater than it is now. I'm trying to take a step back and understand the motivations behind what players want the pool industry to be, and I can't definitively say what exactly that is.

I think the three major camps are 120degrees separated: one would like to see pool become a national entertainment event and fit into the professional athletic game mold, similar to how England views their cue sport. The second wants the game structured to support the domination of other players (and maybe androcentricity?) and probably verification of their own self-worth, and the third wishes to commit themselves to the technical challenge and pursuit of pocket billiards excellence independent of the popularity of the game. There’s a mix on where one falls on the triangle.

I find myself in the third camp, where I consider the game a practice in meditation and peacefulness. I like playing the game by myself and I only have a fierce competitive spirit against myself, and not towards other players. In fact I am starting to feel that I don’t even like other pool players. I think I play simply because it helps me relax.

Maybe from my perspective I am having trouble understanding the feeling of urgency for an industrial push that is taking place in the pool world. Is it really all based on money? Is money what is needed to satisfy the investment made in developing a skill in a game?

I wonder if chess players expect an eventual payout? I wonder if they even label themselves as chess players the same way pool players label themselves.
I don’t know. Maybe I don’t understand people that well. :)

Help me understand.
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I'm confused by your use of the word, "androcentricity". I don't find the word in any of my dictionaries. If you take the root word, "andro" or "android", which means a hermaphrodite or any person exhibiting both male and female traits, and add the "centricity" you get an interesting definition. Just as "anthrocentricity" means "regarding humankind as the center of existence", "androcentricity" would mean a belief that hermaphroditism is the center of existence.

Sorry, as a teacher/writer I'm a little obsessed with the proper use of words...especially in a world where communication is such an obvious problem.

To answer your question, pool needs people who put the game before profits. I've maintained since the days of Eisenhower that if you run a business ethically, profits will follow. I see too many people in the business who don't even play pool, and see only $$$.
 
DoubleD said:
I often think that pool would actually be more honorable, that I would like it and other players more, if there was absolutely no money in pool. Destroy the entire concept of making a living playing pool, let it become pure again.

dld
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When was that???...pure???, Pool got its name because pocket pool became a way to "pool $$ for gambling reasons", I cant play if I dont have $ in action, i get board(with the rare exception with a few friends i dont bet), if its worth doing its worth doing for $$$ "The game is the $$$"

respectfully Eric:smile:
 
DoubleD said:
Funny thing about your premise is that I live in a city with a few places that have over a dozen 9-ft tables. The one actual pool hall is the one doing the least amount of business. It is the one where all the 'real' pool players go. The place I usually go basically has a license to print money...because actual people go there and actually pay for pool.

Pool doesn't need the top to support the pool halls. The pool halls need the general population. The general population annoys the hell out of pool players...they come in, they don't respect the normal decorum while playing, they are loud and obnoxious. But the general population doesn't expect free pool, or complain about the cost for a night out. It is only the pool players who do either of those things.

There will always be pool halls or places to play.

dld
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I hear what you are saying. Yes, many 'pool halls' need to & better morph into what can keep the doors open. Even back in the day in the New Orleans area there were a couple of rooms that had seperation. One had a seperate room for couples only. Another had an additional bar room seperated by glass for the loud music, dancing, food etc. That was in the late 60's & early 70's. In the 80's, there were several discos that had seperate rooms with 4 to 6 tables.

There is another thread discussing the club atmosphere rooms.

I'm not saying the game 'needs' a viable professional level to survive. A grass roots clientele is more 'needed'. I am just saying that it would be better if ALL aspects would thrive so they could 'feed off of each other & push each to higher heights, so to speak.

Regards,
 
As much as I love pool, I am seeing a major social disconnect between the business of pool halls and, I guess you would call it, "public acceptance".

I think this can be fixed IF the local sports news venues include pool and billiards (however limited the details or small the space) results - at the least, a weekly section in the sports section of the newspaper about the latest league standings and tournament winners. On TV, a simple 2 or 3 minute segment of winners, with some pictures.

Is there anywhere in the pool playing world where this is being done? And, if so, are there fewer or more pool halls?
 
Fatboy said:
When was that???...pure???, Pool got its name because pocket pool became a way to "pool $$ for gambling reasons"
Click to expand...

Yes, this is absolutely correct.

if its worth doing its worth doing for $$$ "The game is the $$$"
Click to expand...

There's a few people I know who won't play unless they have money on the line. They are all ego-maniacs and I never play them, or even try to talk to them.
 
nrhoades said:
Yes, this is absolutely correct.



There's a few people I know who won't play unless they have money on the line. They are all ego-maniacs and I never play them, or even try to talk to them.
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I used to & still do get approached by guys asking to play for money. I guess they think everyone plays at their top speed all of the time.

Why would I want to play a total stranger for money when he has obviously watched me play & I have no idea what his speed is?

And then there are the guys I am beating on a coin table who throw up if I would like to play for money as if that is going to make a difference. When I say, how about a hundred a game, they usually just look at me funny & walk away. If I am in the mood I will many times say no, but I'll play you for a beer. Usually they owe me several beers when they leave without actually paying up.

I just wanted you to know that you are not alone in not wanting to deal with 'those' guys.

Regards,
 
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It's really a lot simpler than all that.
People feel pool is damaged or screwed up because it used to be popular enough
to be on TV in the USA (and also in movies, beer commercials, etc.)

Now it's not.

Some argue that pool itself is as popular as ever, if you definite this by warm bodies
in the pool hall... and its absence from TV is unrelated. This seems unlikely to me.
There are other signs - decreased numbers in APA, pool halls closing, fewer high level pros, etc.

So, people are sad to think their favorite game is decreasing in popularity.
"What's wrong with you guys, don't you see how amazing this game is?
Why won't you play it? Why won't you watch it, even for free??!"
Nobody likes to think their favorite thing is declining and may even become extinct.

I think 99% of the "let's save pool" posts come from the fact it's on TV less often.
And 99% of the solutions are either "let's get it on TV and the other stuff will fall into place!"
or else "let's get this other stuff in place, and then it will return to TV!"
 
For those who don't like pool players, just stay in your holes without poking your heads up and complaining.
When I bought a fast car people started trying to get me to run them at the stoplights. Sometimes i was in the mood for a race, sometimes not. When i was itching to do some racing I'd go to the strip on a test and tune night.
There are "those" guys in most everything. Most human being like a challenge and like to be challenged. That's why there are euchre, pool, chess, scrabble, etc. tournaments out there.
My only complaint about the dying off of pool is the halls closing. Now I have fewer opportunities to play in tourneys, gamble, or test myseld. It's cool if you enjoy playing by yourself or do it for therapeutic reasons. You are still keeping the game alive by buying the products.
Personally, I play because I enjoy the challenge and competition. If I was so good no one could come close to competing with me I'd quit.
The most enjoyable time I ever had playing this game was breaking even with a strong road player who passed through town one night. I don't know if I've played two stronger sets in my life. Sure the money matters but not as much as standing up to a road player while representing my local hall.
 
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