At least once a week I get someone with a Beautiful cue , and a Basterd thread , wanting j/ps . All I can tell them is to go back to the cue maker , and I get answered back , " the cue make don't want to build J/ps " I was talking to a very high end cue maker last week , he informed me he would build j/ps but the price would be $5000. per set . I think if they want to use a Basterd thread , they ought to service the needs and wants of the buyers . But they don't care . Jim
What pin is this?
- Thread starter lenoxmjs
- Start date
Maybe your missing out . Quote the customer . Include the cost of the tooling for his bastard pin . Get enough of a deposit to cover your out of pocket expense if he stiffs you.
Then it's all up to the customer. Where else is he gonna get them made?
If he decidedes to have them made it's a win win all around.
1. You make a sale that nobody else could.
2. You have the tooling now and it didn't cost you anything
3. The customers happy because he got his JP'S that nobody else could provide.
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Maybe I've already said enough in this thread but it's a topic that's always worth discussing.
Continuing with the OP's permission of course.
The last time I priced that tap it was $249 and that was many yrs. ago.
I've found them for somewhat less in the tool catalogs but of a design that would prohibit their use for cues.
It was a 'step-tap' of considerable length. That's a fat thread and would be difficult to tap all in one pass otherwise.
How these guys are cutting this thread, I have no first hand knowledge so I can't say.
But if I were doing it, I'd be looking at some custom live-tooling. That may be pricey also.
Right there is the 'rub', the associated costs and it's not like you're using this tooling everyday or even every week.
I stated that I did one maybe 10 yrs. ago. I may have seen one other since.
I think it would be pretty tough for a repairman or a j/p-maker to justify adding that cost to his tool inventory.
This is by no means a common pin. When things are common they are competitively priced.
There are costs associated with an uncommon pin, both monetary and of convenience.
I better quit before people get the impression that I'm not a fan of uncommon pin types.
Please understand, I'm not knocking the cue. It's a lovely cue and Mr. Kikel does masterful work.
I've had several of his cues in my shop though the one in most recent memory didn't have that pin.
This particular pin type is not alone in causing issues for the C-Tec and/or the owner, there are many others.
I guess you could say that about any pin that you don't have the tooling for.
Can you justify the cost?
To the OP, I hope that both you and your new cue live forever and that you enjoy the cue for every second.
Respectfully, KJ
Continuing with the OP's permission of course.
The last time I priced that tap it was $249 and that was many yrs. ago.
I've found them for somewhat less in the tool catalogs but of a design that would prohibit their use for cues.
It was a 'step-tap' of considerable length. That's a fat thread and would be difficult to tap all in one pass otherwise.
How these guys are cutting this thread, I have no first hand knowledge so I can't say.
But if I were doing it, I'd be looking at some custom live-tooling. That may be pricey also.
Right there is the 'rub', the associated costs and it's not like you're using this tooling everyday or even every week.
I stated that I did one maybe 10 yrs. ago. I may have seen one other since.
I think it would be pretty tough for a repairman or a j/p-maker to justify adding that cost to his tool inventory.
This is by no means a common pin. When things are common they are competitively priced.
There are costs associated with an uncommon pin, both monetary and of convenience.
I better quit before people get the impression that I'm not a fan of uncommon pin types.
Please understand, I'm not knocking the cue. It's a lovely cue and Mr. Kikel does masterful work.
I've had several of his cues in my shop though the one in most recent memory didn't have that pin.
This particular pin type is not alone in causing issues for the C-Tec and/or the owner, there are many others.
I guess you could say that about any pin that you don't have the tooling for.
Can you justify the cost?
To the OP, I hope that both you and your new cue live forever and that you enjoy the cue for every second.
Respectfully, KJ
No worries here. I don't believe Dave uses the pin on a regular basis . Until I got this one I never knew the pin existed. I've probably owned over twenty Kikels and this is a first. Next time I have Dave on the phone I'll try and get his thoughts ond reasoning on the pin.
I agree with pretty much everything you have said. I also didn't realize the tap was that pricey. I was thinking 100 tops
My bad . Carry on
I've only seen pics of it,but Kikel also had another "bastard" pin,called the MAXX Radial. It was 5/16-10 or something like that.
When I was in machine shop school,I TRIED making a pin something like the Acme we're discussing. It was a complete pain in the ASS.
By the time you grind a 29 degree included angle on a HSS blank and get the width of the flat tip just right,you'll wonder WTF am I doing
like I did.
By the way,whatever that pin in the original post is,I'm guessing it's not over 10 TPI.
The reason I say that is because the finest pitch on a Acme thread gauge is 10,go beyond that and you'll have to do the math,or wind up with a crazy thread form. Tommy D.
When I was in machine shop school,I TRIED making a pin something like the Acme we're discussing. It was a complete pain in the ASS.
By the time you grind a 29 degree included angle on a HSS blank and get the width of the flat tip just right,you'll wonder WTF am I doing
like I did.By the way,whatever that pin in the original post is,I'm guessing it's not over 10 TPI.
The reason I say that is because the finest pitch on a Acme thread gauge is 10,go beyond that and you'll have to do the math,or wind up with a crazy thread form. Tommy D.
Quite a few thread forms like the one the OP has shown are often made with what is called a Coventry die set .But being US made, most likely would be a Landis Die head. A similar thing. Really neat and I like them.
The thread cutting cutters,come in a set usually of 4. Really neat piece of kit and makes very nice threads.The expense is buying the cutter sets, or the time and equipment to make your own.
Neil
