Pro One vs TOI

[Mikjary]

Thanks, Mike! I knew what you meant. I do appreciate your clarification, though. It took a lot of work to get it all figured out. I am excited to be able to share all of my unravellings in the near future.

Stan Shuffett

Stan Shuffett

Is your next Pro One instructional video going to be available for download as well as on DVD?

Best,
Mike

 

[stan shuffett]

Is your next Pro One instructional video going to be available for download as well as on DVD?

Best,
Mike

Mike, No plans for download availability at this time.

Stan Shuffett

 

[CJ Wiley]

Everyone has their personal idiosyncrasies it seems, and this makes it even more.....

Here are my current thoughts on CJ’s Touch of Inside.

[Caveat – I have not yet viewed CJ’s TOI video. But he has discussed TOI at length on AzB.]

I feel that CJ has actually been talking about two different methods, or two versions of the method, both of which he has called TOI. (This may have caused some confusion.) I’ll call them TOI1 and TOI2.

There's only ONE TOI, the challenge I faced was introducing it to players that had no "referential index," (prior experience) - as you probably know by now TOI is a playing system unlike anything the general public had ever seen. This was never revealed to regular players in my days on the road.

This system is for intermediate to advanced players, and if there is no background in other games like golf it's difficult to understand "zones" and how they apply to margin of error.

If you still don't understand how I align, compared to how I hit the center of the pocket it will be useful to read this again more carefully. The "shot line" is to the inside of the pocket, but the deflection forces the object ball to the center. The Body/Visual Alignment is either center/center or center/edge, and this is the reference that you use to create all other angles. When I start getting more advanced in my TOI description you will have to know these basics or the rest will make less sense.

Read This Post For More Explanation:

I really want to communicate what everyone needs to understand the TOI Playing System, and it's challenging without seeing how an individual plays and addresses the cue ball. Everyone has their personal idiosyncrasies it seems, and this makes it even more important to explain in different ways.

One thing I notice often is a slight pivot to the inside, rather than a parallel shift. This will cause you to undercut the object ball unless you're trying to hit a "contact point" (from past habit), and in this case you are likely to over cut shots. I'm experienced from judging players levels for so many years {to figure out how much I could "spot them"} I can see these subtle shifts.

No matter if you use TOI or not there's certain tip movements that are just made to correct a deeper flaw. I know these players will crumble under pressure, because they're using "feel," but in a way to overcompensate for an alignment issue (in many cases). What many players will discover is they were using a variation of TOI and compensating for it, just not in a way that gave them an advantage. Often, if what you thing is happening with the cue ball and what is actually happening are two separate things.

One thing using the TOI makes you do is understand how the cue ball is moving after contact, you are forcing it to move a particular way.....for sure!!! Sometimes if you are trying to hit center you may be deflecting the ball a consistent way and not "real eyes" it and compensating really well "most of the time," and then having times where you completely fall apart.

The reason I hesitate to get too technical about the "shot lines," and how they relate to the Center/Center, or Center/Edge is because of the deflection. Personally I think more in "sight lines," than "cue lines," in other words I want my eyes parallel to the center (or edge) of the Object ball, and as long as my pivot is parallel I know I'm veering the cue ball OUTSIDE my visual line and over cutting the ball slightly more than how I"m aligned.

This is how I incorporate the '3 Part Pocket System', I'm aligning to the center of the pocket, and because the cue ball is deflecting slightly when I hit the center I know my "shot line" is aligned to the inside of the pocket. Think about it for a minute, if I'm hitting the center, and deflecting the ball, then I'm not "aiming" (unconsciously) at the center, It must be at the inside of the pocket.

When I force the cue ball too much outside the "shot line" I'll hit the OUTSIDE of the pocket. So, in effect there must be two lines when you're using deflection, one line reflects how you are set up, and the other is the line your cue ball course actually takes as it's deflecting away (outside) of the shot line.

So another way of looking at it is my visual shot line isn't straight, it veers outside of the cue line. Because there's feel involved in this I would suggest shooting balls for a solid hour (at least) and make sure you align your tip very square to the Touch of Inside point and accelerate on each shot. You should feel (it's too fast to see) the cue ball veering slightly outside the straight line of your cue (the cue must straight).

Calibrate the shot to hit the center of the pocket and if it doesn't, set it up and shoot it again. FEEL THE SHOT OVER CUTTING your "Cue Line" and you will start to experience the 3 Part Pocket System and the pockets will start "opening up". Of course the pockets don't get bigger, however, you will feel like they do as you maximize your margin of error by forcing the ball to cut into the center.

I am confident most people can utilize this system, it just takes concentrated practice for an hour or two a day (for app. 3 weeks). Working one on one I can teach this technique in 15 hours, and I will assure the TOI has lasting effects and lays a solid foundation for years to come. I am putting together a TOI Program now that will have a money back guarantee if not satisfied the TOI it will benefit your game positively.

 

[AtLarge]

There's only ONE TOI, ...

Sorry, but your many (hundreds?) of TOI posts over many months up until January were about the technique I called TOI1 in post #31. Then you began talking about what I called TOI2. They are different. Perhaps, to you, TOI1 was sort of :"TOI with training wheels", as you didn't feel we could handle the real thing.

But you certainly gave the impression that TOI1 was the secret method you and other road players used 20 to 30 years ago to beat anyone playing the conventional way. And you had (still have) quite a few readers here experimenting with, or even trying to adopt, TOI1.

Now it appears that TOI2 is the "real" TOI. And I guess we haven't heard the whole secret yet ("When I start getting more advanced in my TOI description ...").

Obviously, you are free to present anything any way you wish (including not at all). But I'm feeling that this subject has been handled a little strangely, to put it mildly. That said -- as someone who enjoys trying all sorts of different techniques in pool, I'll continue to follow your writings.

 

[AlexandruM]

AtLarge, thak you for your post. I like your observations and the idea with TOI1 and TOI2.
I can say that I started to discover the TOI system with TOI1, and now I'm using the TOI2 (however i think that TOI1 was for me a little more efficient, maybe it was just the placebo effect).
Tonight I'll try both concepts separately.

For me TOI1 was easy to use, because I aimed like in past using ghostball, I aimed at the corner of the pocket, find the contact point on the object ball, put the touch of inside on the cueball and shoot.

After I saw the CJ videos I start using TOI2. Now I just see the line of the shot, align center to center or center to edge, put the TOI on cueball and shoot.

My main problem now is to adjust TOI on a slick fast cloth and rails, if I use my usually TOI speed the shot is to hard, if i decrease the speed, sometimes I don't deflect the cueball enough.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I can argue that the description of an orange is actually a tangerine

Sorry, but your many (hundreds?) of TOI posts over many months up until January were about the technique I called TOI1 in post #31. Then you began talking about what I called TOI2. They are different. Perhaps, to you, TOI1 was sort of :"TOI with training wheels", as you didn't feel we could handle the real thing.

But you certainly gave the impression that TOI1 was the secret method you and other road players used 20 to 30 years ago to beat anyone playing the conventional way. And you had (still have) quite a few readers here experimenting with, or even trying to adopt, TOI1.

Now it appears that TOI2 is the "real" TOI. And I guess we haven't heard the whole secret yet ("When I start getting more advanced in my TOI description ...").

Obviously, you are free to present anything any way you wish (including not at all). But I'm feeling that this subject has been handled a little strangely, to put it mildly. That said -- as someone who enjoys trying all sorts of different techniques in pool, I'll continue to follow your writings.

After reading your "TOI2" description there are several things you are unclear on. The "sight line" is not to the center of the pocket, it's to the inside, you calibrate to the center by deflecting the ball. I'm NOT spinning the cue ball using TOI (I've said this many, many times) and the most I cue the ball inside is still a very small margin. The issue is how pure someone can hit the inside with a perfectly parallel cue and this ranges, and therefore the amount of TOI will range as well. There's no "cookie cutter" description to how low one player hits to draw a foot, and that also applies to TOI.

The only thing that applies is the result of the shot and that result is where the object ball contacts the pocket. If you contact the center that means you were aligned to the inside of the pocket. There's no other way to tell, no one can tell exactly where they are set up to hit until they actually complete the shot. The reason is all the factors involved, like speed, deflection, spin, and the angle/elevation of the cue at contact. There's no possible way anyone can calculate all these factor consciously, that's why the highest levels of pool must be done on a sub conscious level, a level many people call "the zone," or in pool lingo "dead stroke".

I'm sure you could get many TOI's out of my posts if you look hard enough. There's levels to pool that are difficult to explain in writing, especially when everyone interprets the way they can from prior experience. That's why the DVD was important so I could demonstrate the techniques and explain more clearly. Even with 11 hours condensed to a 90 minute video there's a level that I couldn't communicate.

In the TOI technique you align your body/sight lines C/C and C/E, you calibrate the shot to the center of the pocket and to do this you must "aim" (although I think aim is miss leading) to the inside of the pocket. Obviously if you are deflecting the cue ball you are not hitting the inside, but the center, and the outside {of the pocket} if you deflect it too much.

I'm sure we can all spit hairs with the english language and how advanced pool techniques are described, and that may help someone understand at a higher level. I know there's things about the TOI System that I'm anxious to share, I'd say on a scale of 1 to 7 we are on level 3 at this point on this forum and 5 on the Video. It's much easier for me to talk and demonstrate things on a pool table that unfamiliar to the audience. I'm not sure there's anyone that's a exception to these limitations.

I am working on some graphics that will make the foundation of TOI more clear, most of us are visual and writing has limitations because it's more auditory. Attempting to describe techniques that someone hasn't experienced is like trying to describe food someone has never tasted. I can argue that the description of an orange is actually a tangerine, but that would be ingeniousness and rude if the person is sincerely trying.

'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

I can be reached at the following email if you have a pool related question.

AtLarge, thak you for your post. I like your observations and the idea with TOI1 and TOI2.
I can say that I started to discover the TOI system with TOI1, and now I'm using the TOI2 (however i think that TOI1 was for me a little more efficient, maybe it was just the placebo effect).
Tonight I'll try both concepts separately.

For me TOI1 was easy to use, because I aimed like in past using ghostball, I aimed at the corner of the pocket, find the contact point on the object ball, put the touch of inside on the cueball and shoot.

After I saw the CJ videos I start using TOI2. Now I just see the line of the shot, align center to center or center to edge, put the TOI on cueball and shoot.

My main problem now is to adjust TOI on a slick fast cloth and rails, if I use my usually TOI speed the shot is to hard, if i decrease the speed, sometimes I don't deflect the cueball enough.

On faster cloth I would recommend choking up an inch or two with your right hand, and still stand the same relative distance from the cue ball. This would mean you're going to stand one, to 2 inches closer and your bridge will be slightly shorter as a result. This will allow you to still accelerate like usual, and the shorter bridge will also shorten the distance the cue ball will travel.

I do this quite a bit and I show this system on my 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' by keeping my right hand connected to my hip as a reference point. That way, if I choke up slightly on my grip, it will also influence automatically how far I'm standing from the cue ball. This, in turn shortens my bridge as I described above in a systematic way.

This is like carrying 14 clubs in my bag like in golf and the general rule is I shorten up relative to the distance from the cue ball to the object ball. This is a powerful system and one that I recommend you experiment with when you get some time.

I can answer any questions that come up, and I'm sure someone will try to pick apart my description, so you can send me a private email if you'd rather ask me in private. That goes for anyone, I can be reached at the following email if you have a pool related question.

thegameistheteacher@gmail.com

 

[AlexandruM]

Thank you again Mr. Wiley. Your explanation make sense, I'll try it, and let you know the results.



P.S. TOI1 and TOI2 I think there are the natural evolution of the same unique TOI system. There are normal steps for a person who just start use TOI and want to develop it.

 

[CJ Wiley]

'Live and Let Die TOI'

Thank you again Mr. Wiley. Your explanation make sense, I'll try it, and let you know the results.



P.S. TOI1 and TOI2 I think there are the natural evolution of the same unique TOI system. There are normal steps for a person who just start use TOI and want to develop it.

Yes, you kind of "stole my thunder," just wait until I tell you how "TOI7" works. It's like the "James Bond" of playing systems, but you can only use it if you're betting over 007 thousand a game. It will get your opponent "shaken," not "stirred". 'Live and Let Die TOI'

 

[Mikjary]

CJ,

I'm ready for "TOI 3". I can see the progression.

I showed a pro friend of mine "TOI 1" several months ago. He practiced with it and put it in his tool box. After I showed him the CTC and CTE alignments he said that it was correct. He told me Dave Yeager showed him something similar years ago. We realized Dave just never gave up the inside part!

Best,
Mike

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick:

I can tell you that I don't align CTC/CTE...since the very beginning, I've aligned my way, using back of the ball aiming (like I have for 25 years), but aimed slightly thick, at the near side of the pocket. After a while, it looks like I'm aiming at the same place on the OB that I always did before, but it's all "recalibrated" to account for the delfection and thick hit aim. Now I see the angle, connecting the dots between the pocket/OB/CB and just drop down into the TOI alignment. CJ is describing HIS perception of the connection/angle, as he perceives a difference between his eye line and the stick line (as I understand it, anyway). I was messing around with that the other day and I could see what he was describing, but it still "looked wrong" to me. When I'm down lined up correctly, I can visualize the CTC or CTE line, but I choose my own perception alignment, which works perfectly for me. As we've all said, TOI isn't an aiming system...it's an alignment/address system that "anchors" your stickline to the CB in an absolutely predictable and repeatable place, with all of any potential stroke/deflection error directed in one direction--toward the center of the pocket. And it's a brilliant way to control the cueball without as little spin as possible while putting collision induced spin on the OB that makes it hug rails and avoid rattling. It's also very hard to scratch with this method, as the CB post collision path is so easy to see.

I also use a light touch as well as firm touch as you see in this video...acceleration straight through the CB is the key, not necessarily a hard hit. As long as the cue is not slowing down during the stroke, the deflection will take and the TOI will work. A firmer hit needs a little thicker aim and vice versa, that takes some time to dial in. I use the L drill (15 balls lined up in a box around the corner pocket, two diamonds out, start at one end and put them all in the corner pocket in a row, without touching a ball) to test this out. It's a nightmare, but it proves TOI works with finesse as well as muscle. You have to use BHE from the TOI alignment a lot more, though, which is fine and will prove to you that you can still spin the CB if you have to off the TOI alignment and still drill the pocket.

Thanks. I understand & agree with what you say. I'd like to say that I have never 'worked' so hard at playing pool before. I just played...& learned. TOI has caused me to 'work' but I do see that it has some benefits.

Yesterday I spent 2.5 hours with TOI with a pair of regular non LD shafts on a 9' Diamond table with older 760 Simonis cloth. I started out with my aiming method first & when I started over cutting some shots, I tried the CTC & CTE alignments. Obviously it is easier to use CTC & CTE & get enough deflection with the non LD shafts. Doing it with just these two(2) alignments involves much more feel & faith than with a more normal 'aiming method'. I found myself aligning to the CTC or CTE & wanting to go to my way to the 'correct aim point'. If I tried to do that while still keeping the tip to the inside, it did not 'look' right & would require resetting the bridge hand. So I stayed with the CTC & CTE.

When done 'correctly' the results are great but the misses can be bad as well. I'm sure I would get more consistent with this method if I were to stick with it but my faith in it is a bit lacking. However I do enjoy the free feeling & excitement of the creation aspect. One does loose defined sight of the OB & 'sees the shot in the minds eye' as one 'feels' the shot & tries to create it. It is similiar to using all levels of english/spin. That being said when I got down on the next shot after a mis I 'real eyesed' that for now I can pocket balls, especially long cut shots with more assuredness with spin than with the CTC/CTE TOI. In other words I have more faith in Spin & TOI-1 than I do in TOI-2.

I 'real eyesed' that I was getting past the point of benefit so I decided to take a break & take a ride & have lunch. When I went back a couple of hours later I got on a Centenial table with newer 860 Simonis with a bit larger pockets. I used my lighter cue with my OB Classic shaft. I mostly used 'my aim' & TOI & things went very well. I also used the pivot form TOI for spin off the rail when needed & it went well too. I even think that that method works better with the red circle ball, which I hate, than my normal method of spining the ball. Maybe 'better' is not the correct word. maybe it is because the stroke is more consistent with the the 'squirt'/deflection stroke. I'd like to also point out that when the shot is truely at or near the CTE it is a better visual connection to shoot that shot with TOI than it is to use outside english/spin. I can certainly 'real eyes' what CJ says about a player a player maybe wearing down over time shooting those shats as I have been doing vs. shooting them with TOI.

In conclusion, at least for now, I think I would choose to play with the TOI-1 way with the LD shafts. That way seems to be easier with better results as the deflection needed is more consistent. It is always just a touch or just a bit of inside to get just a bit of CB 'squirt'. Also there is less to worry about went doing the pivot for spin with the LD shafts. The TOI-2 way requires more calculations of 'feel' for the correct amount of deflection. For now I have a much better feel for shooting with english/spin than with so much 'squirt' off of the CTC & CTE.

I can see where playing the TOI-1 way could be better than playing my old way with spin as there is less actual 'feel' required. However it does not allow as much creativity as with english, at least not in my opinion.

That being said, does want to be creative or does want to be more simple with a more consistant method & shot type? Personally I think a blend would be best & I think that can be done with TOI-1. I think it would be more difficult to blend playing with creative spin & TOI-2. Like I think CJ has said that might drive some to the 'funny farm'.

Anyway, that is my take from my 1st. nearly 3 hour session with CTC/CTE TOI-2.

One more thing. IMO shooting with 'squirt'/deflection seems to be more effective & consistent with a firmer grip & wrist than with my normally loose connection to the cue & with the wrist action I normally use when playing with english.

Sorry for the ranting style but I just let my thoughts sort of spill out.

Best Regards,

 

[CJ Wiley]

Pool is an enjoyable game if you allow this to happen

Thanks. I understand & agree with what you say. I'd like to say that I have never 'worked' so hard at playing pool before. I just played...& learned. TOI has caused me to 'work' but I do see that it has some benefits.

Yesterday I spent 2.5 hours with TOI with a pair of regular non LD shafts on a 9' Diamond table with older 760 Simonis cloth. I started out with my aiming method first & when I started over cutting some shots, I tried the CTC & CTE alignments. Obviously it is easier to use CTC & CTE & get enough deflection with the non LD shafts. Doing it with just these two(2) alignments involves much more feel & faith than with a more normal 'aiming method'. I found myself aligning to the CTC or CTE & wanting to go to my way to the 'correct aim point'. If I tried to do that while still keeping the tip to the inside, it did not 'look' right & would require resetting the bridge hand. So I stayed with the CTC & CTE.

When done 'correctly' the results are great but the misses can be bad as well. I'm sure I would get more consistent with this method if I were to stick with it but my faith in it is a bit lacking. However I do enjoy the free feeling & excitement of the creation aspect. One does loose defined sight of the OB & 'sees the shot in the minds eye' as one 'feels' the shot & tries to create it. It is similiar to using all levels of english/spin. That being said when I got down on the next shot after a mis I 'real eyesed' that for now I can pocket balls, especially long cut shots with more assuredness with spin than with the CTC/CTE TOI. In other words I have more faith in Spin & TOI-1 than I do in TOI-2.

I 'real eyesed' that I was getting past the point of benefit so I decided to take a break & take a ride & have lunch. When I went back a couple of hours later I got on a Centenial table with newer 860 Simonis with a bit larger pockets. I used my lighter cue with my OB Classic shaft. I mostly used 'my aim' & TOI & things went very well. I also used the pivot form TOI for spin off the rail when needed & it went well too. I even think that that method works better with the red circle ball, which I hate, than my normal method of spining the ball. Maybe 'better' is not the correct word. maybe it is because the stroke is more consistent with the the 'squirt'/deflection stroke. I'd like to also point out that when the shot is truely at or near the CTE it is a better visual connection to shoot that shot with TOI than it is to use outside english/spin. I can certainly 'real eyes' what CJ says about a player a player maybe wearing down over time shooting those shats as I have been doing vs. shooting them with TOI.

In conclusion, at least for now, I think I would choose to play with the TOI-1 way with the LD shafts. That way seems to be easier with better results as the deflection needed is more consistent. It is always just a touch or just a bit of inside to get just a bit of CB 'squirt'. Also there is less to worry about went doing the pivot for spin with the LD shafts. The TOI-2 way requires more calculations of 'feel' for the correct amount of deflection. For now I have a much better feel for shooting with english/spin than with so much 'squirt' off of the CTC & CTE.

I can see where playing the TOI-1 way could be better than playing my old way with spin as there is less actual 'feel' required. However it does not allow as much creativity as with english, at least not in my opinion.

That being said, does want to be creative or does want to be more simple with a more consistent method & shot type? Personally I think a blend would be best & I think that can be done with TOI-1. I think it would be more difficult to blend playing with creative spin & TOI-2. Like I think CJ has said that might drive some to the 'funny farm'.

Anyway, that is my take from my 1st. nearly 3 hour session with CTC/CTE TOI-2.

One more thing. IMO shooting with 'squirt'/deflection seems to be more effective & consistent with a firmer grip & wrist than with my normally loose connection to the cue & with the wrist action I normally use when playing with english.

Sorry for the ranting style but I just let my thoughts sort of spill out.

Best Regards,

It still appears like you're fighting your game and thinking too much. Over analyzing the TOI is a mistake in my opinion. When you are in this "mental state" it doesn't free you to CREATE the angles and let the Game flow. Pool is an enjoyable game if you allow this to happen and a difficult, frustrating Game if you don't.

At least take some of your practice time and try not to think, but to create and just enjoy hitting the cue ball. The entire game is based on contacting the cue ball, no matter what "technique or system" you choose, so don't go against the grain, it can only hinder your performance.

Using TOI requires very little thought and you usually have one choice on position so it frees your mind. Thinking in terms of several different "TOI'S" is very damaging. I don't think that was the intent, and there are different levels to development in pool, however getting energy and satisfaction from hitting the cue ball purely will do wonders for your attitude and confidence.

Pool is a "feel and touch" game, and much like an artist or musician, it's not positive to get caught up "paining by numbers," or "reading music"......I feel like I'm "expressing myself through the game," and I suggest this is the mental state you strive for. There's the "physical side" and there's the "mental/spiritual" side of pool too, and it's the side that's the most rewarding.

When I was developing as a young pool player my favorite mental image was to "become the cue ball," and everything seemed to take it's place and it stimulated my creativity and imagination. It is written in the older manuscripts to "become like a child," and this, to me is to enjoy life as a game and your game like it has life.

Play Well, and Enjoy Your Game

 

[CJ Wiley]

for me I learned a lot about patience, empathy and tolerance in rebuilding my game

CJ,

I'm ready for "TOI 3". I can see the progression.

I showed a pro friend of mine "TOI 1" several months ago. He practiced with it and put it in his tool box. After I showed him the CTC and CTE alignments he said that it was correct. He told me Dave Yeager showed him something similar years ago. We realized Dave just never gave up the inside part!

Best,
Mike

Dave Yeager certainly knew how this was done. He, like many others chose not to get into the task of explaining this simple concept. I found some of my old notes to myself from many years ago and it simple said "make sure to target the cue ball with the touch of inside".

That's how simple it really is, and I know you understand this, and Dave Y. certainly did. It's an interesting study in human nature to see how complicated we can make even the most simple things in pool. I do understand, and for me I learned a lot about patience, empathy and tolerance in rebuilding my own game, not in others, in myself. After all, it's "just" a Game.
Note to Self: "make sure you become the cue ball with the "touch" {and feel} of inside"

 

[8pack]

CJ

According to you there's 2places on the ob.(center and edge)
How would you go about addressing each on of these shots.
Trying to get a better understanding of what your doing.

Anthony

 

[One Pocket John]

Rick,

I know you have been playing a loonngg time.

What might help to cut down on the learning curve is to make sure that you are just using the shoulder of the tip and coming just off center of the QB.

Wait until you start trying playing position. What I have found is to play TOI position on the next shot you have to force the QB where you want it to go and not depend on spin. If you have to use spin use it to get your QB back into TOI position.

Don't try to put the QB on an exact spot, just play the shot zone on the next shot.

Hang in there, it does take a while to feel comfortable using TOI.

John

 

[ENGLISH!]

It still appears like you're fighting your game and thinking too much. Over analyzing the TOI is a mistake in my opinion. When you are in this "mental state" it doesn't free you to CREATE the angles and let the Game flow. Pool is an enjoyable game if you allow this to happen and a difficult, frustrating Game if you don't.

At least take some of your practice time and try not to think, but to create and just enjoy hitting the cue ball. The entire game is based on contacting the cue ball, no matter what "technique or system" you choose, so don't go against the grain, it can only hinder your performance.

Using TOI requires very little thought and you usually have one choice on position so it frees your mind. Thinking in terms of several different "TOI'S" is very damaging. I don't think that was the intent, and there are different levels to development in pool, however getting energy and satisfaction from hitting the cue ball purely will do wonders for your attitude and confidence.

Pool is a "feel and touch" game, and much like an artist or musician, it's not positive to get caught up "paining by numbers," or "reading music"......I feel like I'm "expressing myself through the game," and I suggest this is the mental state you strive for. There's the "physical side" and there's the "mental/spiritual" side of pool too, and it's the side that's the most rewarding.

When I was developing as a young pool player my favorite mental image was to "become the cue ball," and everything seemed to take it's place and it stimulated my creativity and imagination. It is written in the older manuscripts to "become like a child," and this, to me is to enjoy life as a game and your game like it has life.

Play Well, and Enjoy Your Game

Thanks CJ,

Believe me I'm not thinking hardly at all when I'm shooting. That rant was just thinking back about yesterday.

I'm a bit of a 'perfectionist' or at least I use to be when I was much younger. The misses just stand out more in my mind than the makes even though the makes are so way much more than the misses.

The TOI is fine when I use my equal fractional overlap 'aiming' perception to the full hit side. I just can't seem to consistently dial up the correct amounts of 'squirt'/deflection when working from just the two(2) CTC & CTE lines. It's like knowing that that's wrong & then trying to force it to be right. I've created a problem & now I have to do something to make it work. I have to make the CB squirt a certain amount in that direction.

When the shots are truely near a full & 1/2 ball hit it's easy. But when they are not close it's kind of like shooting a bow well beyond it's 'straight line' capabilities. How much elevation do I give it to hit the target? It becomes more of a hit or mis. I have to build confidence in it & right now that is lacking with the CTC & CTE.

As I said when the shots are near CTC & near CTE it's easy to just dial up a bit of squirt. But I have not developed a feel for the 80 something other amounts off those two over all the different distances.

You make it look & sound easy. To me it is harder than shooting with english. If I had to shoot with english based off of just two(2) alignments that would be difficult as well. I can percieve a line out from the pocket or part of the pocket through the OB. That seem's like a better focus than the center or edge of the ball that I know is wrong.

The TOI with my 'aiming' perception is well rooted & I am better for it.

The CTC & CTE are seeds on the ground that need some water & time. I may get it & I may not.

I have not given up on it. It's just not flowing out of me yet.

 

[AtLarge]

CJ

According to you there's 2places on the ob.(center and edge)
How would you go about addressing each on of these shots.
Trying to get a better understanding of what your doing.

Anthony

I imagine CJ will give a more esoteric answer. Here's my simple view of it.

The first 5 shots look to be under 30-degree cuts. So: (1) align center CB to center OB; (2) offset the stick to the inside (left) of center CB parallel to the initial alignment; and (3) shoot. If you undercut it, you didn't go far enough inside; if you overcut it, you went too far inside.

The second 5 shots look to be more than 30-degree cuts. So: (1) align center CB to outside (right) edge of OB. Then do as above for the first 5 shots.

Edit: This is for TOI2.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick,

I know you have been playing a loonngg time.

What might help to cut down on the learning curve is to make sure that you are just using the shoulder of the tip and coming just off center of the QB.

Wait until you start trying playing position. What I have found is to play TOI position on the next shot you have to force the QB where you want it to go and not depend on spin. If you have to use spin use it to get your QB back into TOI position.

Don't try to put the QB on an exact spot, just play the shot zone on the next shot.

Hang in there, it does take a while to feel comfortable using TOI.

John

Thanks John,

As you know I have been playing with english spin since I was 13. I always use the shoulder edge of the tip. I like a very flat shaped tip with the edges just rounded. I like it that way because it's easier to tell just how far off from center the contact will be made.

I have been playing position for 8 ball with TOI & I am fairly comfortable with TOI based on my frational overlap aiming perception & position control is getting better all of the time & I understand what you mean by forcing the cue ball. The problem is that I force it too far most of the time since it usually comes up short if not forced.

I just have not been able to get consistent with it from the CTC & CTE base unless the shots are relatively close to that as their true line. I guess I just don't feel that much squirt/deflection since my focus has always been on the spin/swerve factor for so long while shooting with spin. Maybe it is also because I rarely shot & still do not shoot very near the equator of the ball.

I think that will be my next experiment. Just shooting at the equator to maybe get a better feel for the squirt where I don't have to worry about swerve bringing it back. To do that I will probably have to give no thought to postion so I don't go up or down on the ball. I'll just take what it does & shoot the next shot. That won't be easy for me to do.

Thanks again for the encouragement.

 

[Mikjary]

Thanks John,

As you know I have been playing with english spin since I was 13. I always use the shoulder edge of the tip. I like a very flat shaped tip with the edges just rounded. I like it that way because it's easier to tell just how far off from center the contact willl be made.

I have been playing position for 8 ball with TOI & I am fairly comfortable with TOI based on my frational overlap aiming perception & position control is getting better all of the time & I understand what you mean by forcing the cue ball. The problem is that I force it too far most of the time since it usually comes up short if not forced.

I just have not been able to get consistent with it from the CTC & CTE base unless the shots are relatively close to that as their true line. I guess I just don't feel that much squirt/deflection since my focus has always been on the spin/swerve factor for so long while shooting with spin. Maybe it is also because I rarely shot & still do not shoot very near the equator of the ball.

I think that will be my next experiment. Just shooting at the equator to maybe get a better feel for the squirt where I don't have to worry about swerve bringing it back. To do that I will probably have to give no thought to postion so I don't go up or down on the ball. I'll just take what it does & shoot the next shot. That won't be easy for me to do.

Thanks again for the encouragement.

Hey Rick,

Thanks for posting your session results. Sounds like you were hard at it.

Just a couple of thoughts I've found to be happening with the TOI and my game...Hitting the cue ball harder when the balls are less than a couple of diamonds apart won't make the cue ball deflect more. You wont create a bigger angle with speed unless you're a little distance away from the object ball.

You can hold balls better with a tighter grip. I kill balls with a firm grip and shorter stroke. When I need to create an angle, a fairly loose grip works best.

As far as TOI 2 goes, I wouldn't mess with it until your brain lets TOI 1 sink in. Too much info too soon, I think. I played with TOI1 for several months before I experimented with TOI 2. The ideas you put into play with the CTC and CTE alignments won't work without trust and a solid connection to the pocket. Until you have a handle on the deflection, your mind will be trying too hard to figure it out and you'll actually be sabotaging your progress.

CJ has said the two alignments are advanced techniques that require a solid foundation and should be learned after the other stuff becomes ingrained. You don't necessarily need TOI to utilize the two alignments, but you do need an uncluttered mind.

Best,
Mike

 

[LAMas]

I imagine CJ will give a more esoteric answer. Here's my simple view of it.

The first 5 shots look to be under 30-degree cuts. So: (1) align center CB to center OB; (2) offset the stick to the inside (left) of center CB parallel to the initial alignment; and (3) shoot. If you undercut it, you didn't go far enough inside; if you overcut it, you went too far inside.

The second 5 shots look to be more than 30-degree cuts. So: (1) align center CB to outside (right) edge of OB. Then do as above for the first 5 shots.

Edit: This is for TOI2.

Will the amount of TOI change if the distance between the OB and CB is different like greater or lesser?