Request for CJ Wiley

[CJ Wiley]

We played every day and never rested until the road trip was over

Funny that you wouldn't think that psychological or financial damage is not long lasting. Did you ever wear a wig?

No wigs, just fake glasses, different hair styles and colors, and dressed to fit in with the locals in whatever part of the US I was in. And the psychological/financial damage was different back then (in the 80's). Players were much tougher because we gambled ten times more than in this day and age. There were MANY pool players running around gambling for a living and some of us made a lucrative time of it.

It's a sign of the times more than anything, remember this story is based on how pool gambling was in the 80s. If you lost a match there was always somewhere you could go to win your money back plus a lot more in some cases. Every bar you went to they were playing for $10.-$20 a game and many "challenge table" bar tables had $50. games going on all the time.

Most of the trips I went on with other top notch road players we averaged winning $800, and sometimes $1000. a day (this was average). Sometimes we would hit a big score for 15k-20k and really boost our daily average up. We played every day and never rested until the road trip was over, then my partner would go back home to rest and I'd get another partner and keep going. I kept this pace up for many years, and covered the country many times in the places that pool gambling was prevalent.

I would sometimes play/gamble every day for months at a time in those days. One stretch I went three straight years without losing and won over a million dollars (I had partners so about 60% was my end).

This doesn't exist anymore, there's not even close to as much action today as there was in the 80s. Also, the information travels faster and camera phones can get you seriously hurt if you're out "hustling". Many times I played guys that thought I was "CJ," but I would deny it until I won all the money, then escape before they could ever prove who I really was.

This is difficult to imagine now, but it was like this all over the country, especially in Texas, OK, Tenn., Kentucky, Al., Carolina s, etc.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I noticed you would like to hear about the top players I've played

CJ first off I want to thank you for adding so much useful content to this site. I wish more pro players took an interest in growing the sport and helping others improve as you have. Now for my request. I know you we're one of the top players for years, but more importantly you always seemed to be in action. You went after all the top players. Would you please relay some of your top gambling stories. I as well as the whole forum would love to hear how you played these guys and some of your big scores. I believe I also heard you say that there were only four players that you would not play, who were they.
Please share the wealth with us action junkies!
Thanks

I told a few hustling stories, and I noticed you would like to hear about the top players I've played. There is a long list so maybe you could pick some favorites? I'll give you some choices like Efren, "Country Calvin", Reid Pierce, Johnny Archer, Kim Davenport, David Matlock, Rafael Martinez, Shane V., Jimmy Wetch, Johnny Morro, TopWater, Roger Griffis, St. Louie Louie, Jack Cooney, Billy I., Amarillo Slim, Shannon Dalton, Rodney Morris, Vernon Elliot, Doug Smith, Mario Cruz, Billy Ray Sudan, Eugene Browning, Bobby Stovall, Little Sergio, Robert L, Lizard, Bustamente.......that should be enough choices.

I stated that I would not play three players, and one was Buddy Hall, one of the others was Allen Hopkins, he was a very tough player to beat gambling at any game. I may have had an edge at some point because of my break playing 9 or 10 Ball, but I never had any desire to test it. Playing straight pool and one pocket he was always one of the best in the world.

Allen could do some amazing things on the pool table and I grew up admiring him on Wide World of Sports and his one pocket game was as good as anyone's. He may not have been able to beat Efren, but Efren would have known he was in a game if he would have went to Jersey and mixed it up. IMHO 'His Game Taught Many Players'

 

[JesseBfan]

Continued????

Since you like stories of the "Road Playing Days" here's one I wrote about a road trip, of course the names have been changed to protect the innocent. This is PART I - I'll post the rest later tonight:


I sat in the backseat, thumping through my partners roadmap. Each state had
many towns circled with names, numbers and descriptions beside them. I knew
if I wanted more detail they also had a "spot book" that would have every
player in each town with a description of them and an order in which we
would ideally "take the town off".

You see we weren't interested in just
beating someone playing pool, we were out to beat the whole town out of as
much as possible. Most little towns had their "champion" that everybody
would bet on and usually we would have to play him to win a big score, but
not always. I have been a part of huge scores where we were playing someone
that couldn't hit the ocean if they were standing on the beach. I wasn't
the one that was usually playing the pigeons. That was usually done by my
partner that looked more like a football player than a pool player, but
don't ever let looks deceive you, he could play right under championship
speed, especially on the bar size tables.

Sometimes it was difficult to even know what state we were in when we
finally got a hotel at the end of the night, but I didn't even care. I just
needed to find my next opponent like a junkie needs that next fix. I loved
the action, but more importantly I loved to win the money. There are many
people that think they are "pool hustlers" but there are several levels that
most are unaware of.

First you have the scuffler. He is the bottom feeder
and constantly moves around to different bars looking for someone that is
either drunk or simply can't play. This type guy wouldn't bet two big dogs
could whip a little dog and usually won't even put up $100 unless he sees
buzzards flying over the poor victim. Next you have the typical hustler.
This guy usually plays better than he looks and knows a thousand and one
proposition games that look to good to be true and definitely are.


We like some of these guys, but they don't really get any true respect from my
group. Then there are the "players". These guys play like burning hell as
long as they can't lose any of there own money. They usually have a
"stake-horse" that puts up the money and they play their hearts out.
Unfortunately their hearts aren't that resilient and even though they play
well and run balls properly, when they get up against the elite group
they know their place and usually bow out peacefully once they know
they are in a bad game.

The next group are the ones that we get
involved with and it is purely business. I know they will get the money and
we don't have to worry about gambling, but strategically milk the room for the
maximum amount. We are called the "road warriors". We stay on the road
because once people know who we are and how we play they would rather gargle
razor blades than play us for any amount of money. Not only will they lose
their precious to us, chances are they will lose their self esteem (temporarily) as
well. we relish the thought of not only beating another player, but enjoy sending to a shrink for a month or two. The beauty is
there's no physical harm, unlike a boxer that can cause brain damage
physically, we just wanted to cause damage mentally and financially.

"We have arrived! You better write down your names so you don't forget this
time".

I reached into the front seat and was handed the "spot book". I thumbed
through until I found the town that we were in and started to study the
information. Looks like there is one main pool room and two bars that
everybody gambles in.

The pool room had a player with a seven beside his
name and description of what he played, how much he would bet and how he had
lost the most money in the past. The other bars had a couple of scufflers
that fed off two of the regulars. One owned a car dealership and the other
was a bookmaker that took sports bets and used one of the bars as an
"office".

I immediately knew that he would be my target. The main goal
would be to go to the bar and mix with the crowd for awhile. We would get
on the pool table and bet a few dollars, but we would be more interested on
meeting the key people and putting something in their head that would elicit
greed. You can't con an honest man, right? We basically wanted everyone to
know that we had a lot of money and not much sense.

We pulled over at a little country cafe and went in to get some good food
before we were subjected to the bar scene, where pork rines were considered
a delicacy. We would also use this time to get a plan together and decide
who would play and in what order and if we would split up and cover the pool
room and the bars. I enjoyed this as much as actually playing sometimes.
Like I said before it is not the winning that was important to a road
player, but winning the maximum amount that made the difference.


I would run in to other road players that were unfortunate enough to get behind us
on a road trip. They would come in to town a day or two after we had left.
I always got a good laugh when they would comment that we would leave
nothing but tombstones in these poor pool rooms and bars. Some of the towns
wouldn't take kindly to someone asking to play for money soon after we had
tortured them. They weren't in the best of moods about gambling at pool
after we had drained them.

CONTINUED LATER TODAY: 'The Road was the Teacher'

don't make us beg!

 

[CJ Wiley]

PART II - Road Player Stories from the 80s

don't make us beg!

I almost forgot. PART II

After we ate we started chit chatting with our waitress and started dropping a few names that were our targets. She immediately knew one of them and started to give us personal information about him. He will never know that he was “set up” by a friend of his without her even knowing it.

It is amazing how often someone we would meet would actually know one of the names on our list and unknowingly give us detailed information on where to find them and how to approach them.
Sometimes our spot book wasn't up to date and there would be another place to play in town or another player that we could key on. It didn't matter, once we were in town for a few hours we knew we would have all the info we would need to take off a score.

This was our business and we knew it very, very well. We got directions to where we needed to go and we headed for the car. As I stepped out the door I could feel the flakes of snow falling and got an instant adrenaline rush. I knew tonight everyone would be inside, out of the weather and doing what they enjoyed most, gambling at pool.

Little did any of them know who had just come into their little town and what was in store for the ones that would play a stranger a game of pool. I got into the backseat of the car and started to rehearse my lines and fantasize about winning my biggest score as we prepared to go to the nights “office” and see what our “bosses” were willing to pay us at the chance of beating us out of our money that would be the day!

“ What are we going to say we’re doing in this redneck megalopolis”?

“ Stop at this gas station and I’ll get a newspaper. There’s got to be something going on around here. Maybe a goat roping or a gay rights parade.” We laughed at the ludicrousness of the comment, although aware there were some equally strange things going on in these small towns.

We pulled in and I got out to get a paper. This was a standard routine before taking off a town. We would definitely get the third degree at some point during the night and preparation was very important. If we didn't have a purpose for being in the town it would make the locals very suspicious, but on the other hand if we convinced them that we were there for a legitimate reason (other than to hustle them out of their money) they would be easier to entice into a “friendly” game of pool. We wanted our “marks” to think that we had plenty of money and not much sense so that their greed would get the better of them.

I brought back the paper and started thumbing through it to find some reason that would explain our presence.

“Here we go. There’s a big farm sale at the livestock market tomorrow and I’m sure we can get a great deal on a John Deer tractor. We can tell them that our crop just came in and we are looking to expand our production next year. They will think we’re growing pot anyway when we flash this wad of cash”.

This was always one of our favorite ploys. We would tell people that we were there for a certain reason, but in a way that if they didn't believe us they would jump to the conclusion that we were really there to pick up or deliver some drugs. If they were clever enough to figure this out it was perfect because then they would be on a mission to beat us out of our money before someone else did. Reverse psychology was nothing compared to what we were fixing to put in these poor peoples minds.

“What about the tags?”

“Yeah, I don’t think they’ll believe we drove 1000 miles to get a good deal on a tractor. Pull over at that hotel and I’ll “borrow” some for the night.”

Almost routinely once everyone knew that we wanted to gamble someone would go out and check out our car to see if we had out of state tags. We would sometimes go to a hotel and get one of the plates off a car, glue magnets to it and stick it on over our plates then we could park in plain sight of the front door of the place without worrying about spooking our potential customers.

After we were done we would return the plate to the car and everyone would be happy and if the car was gone before we returned at least they would have one of their plates (we would pick cars that had a front and back tag). We weren't “stealing anything”, just borrowing for a little while. We knew the owners would approve. Right?

We decided to split up and hit the bars and the pool room at the same time. We dropped Bill off at the pool room and Mike and I went to the first bar. Bill’s forte was to go to a pool room, get a game with the first guy that had any jewelry on and precede to lose every game for ten dollars a game.

This was called “laying down a lemon” and was like planting seeds to Bill. He knew that he didn't look like a pool player and took full advantage of it. What would usually happen is Mike and I would end up beating all the players and then they would all want to play Bill because they knew that he had lost earlier and was definitely a weak player. Bill would then refuse to play any of the players, but would match up a game with the guys that put the money up for the players.

The players would encourage their backers to play hoping that they would win and then give them another chance to play. That parade was soon rained on because despite looking like a linebacker, Bill was just a notch under a top road player. By the time he started playing we were usually big winner and the opponent would have his “nose open” and ready to “go off like a rocket”.
The only time this ever backfired on us is when someone jarred Bill’s drink and we just about had to knock him out to get him to stop playing and get him out of the place. “Jar” is a drug that someone can put in your drink that will put you in la la land and you will think that your playing like a world champion and will lose every game until you either run out of money or someone makes you quit. I have had this happen three times that I know of and it is no fun. I think it is used to put women in a euphoric state during labor or something funky like that.

All I know is, you can’t quit and you “think” you’re playing well. We never did this to anyone, even pool hustlers have a morals and ethics about how they operate. We were clean.

I liked traveling with Bill because it was so easy for him to get a game. He played the big, dumb guy routine so well that I would even start to believe it, even though I knew he was sharp as a tack. I remember one time we were hustling down in Florida and every night we would end up going to a late night club for after hours action.

This place had three bars in one, but the bathrooms were back by the pool tables and Bill would ask everyone that looked like they had money to play one game for a hundred and it was amazing how many people would take him up on it. That would never work for me because I looked like I might be a player, but Bill looked more like a lumberjack.

This trip was very profitable because I flew in after Bill had already won some pretty big money and shown his true playing speed. No one knew that we were together so I played Bill in front of everyone. The first night and lost $2800. , then quit and got drunk and started telling the “house detective” (the one that wants to be a big shot and tell everyone how smart he is) that I was down to make a “buy”, letting him jump to the conclusion that I was buying something very expensive and very illegal.

I came in the next night and the house detective had already told everybody in town that I was a big drug dealing sucker and everyone started asking me to play pool. I told them that I just wanted to play the big guy that I played last night. Just then Bill came in the door and we matched up again, but Bill spotted me the eight ball as a handicap and beat me out of another $4200.00, I quit and had some more drinks telling the house detective how upset I was because it looked like I was going to have to spend a few more days there. I also told him that I was looking at a new corvette that I was probably going to buy the next day to give to my girlfriend.

From that point on it was like shooting ducks out of a barrel. I had people calling me to make appointments to play and of course I knew exactly how everyone played. Bill disappeared for a week and I beat the area out of about thirty thousand in the next five days. They had never experienced anything like that and I heard that after we left they wouldn't play any strangers a game of pool for about six months.

One thing that we always did when we went to a new area was to beat the small towns first before moving into the bigger cities. Many times through this process we would become friends with one of the guys in a small town and talk him into “putting on a show” at one of the pool rooms in a big city.

Putting on a show was what I had done with Bill, where you play someone just so other people can see how bad you play. Most times you know the person that you are doing this with because if you don’t it is more like laying down a lemon. This was especially easy to do if the guy had been hustled by one of the big city players. They would get there rocks off pulling off a score with us because they loved being part of hustling the big city “smart guys”.

I even had a guy refuse to take his end because he said he had so much fun doing it that he felt like he should be paying us. We felt like we did our good deed for the day. Making friends and influencing people was our job. Oh, yeah, and relieving of the burden of money in their pocket. It makes them play better if they’re a little lighter….LOL

 

[JesseBfan]

Thanks CJ

that was well worth the wait!

 

[usendme]

Hi CJ

Great stories. Would love to hear your encounter with Jack Cooney.

Thx

 

[hang-the-9]

Pretty blond, more on the dark side, but I do get some help occasionally. I had many disguises at one time in my life Here's a picture of my younger years, you can be the judge.

You have your fingers really tight together, look almost off balance. You shoot that way now also? No issues with the bridge hand moving on a shot? Looks like the opposite of what Deuel does, he splays his fingers out almost on every shot.

 

[catpool9]

No wigs, just fake glasses, different hair styles and colors, and dressed to fit in with the locals in whatever part of the US I was in. And the psychological/financial damage was different back then (in the 80's). Players were much tougher because we gambled ten times more than in this day and age. There were MANY pool players running around gambling for a living and some of us made a lucrative time of it.

It's a sign of the times more than anything, remember this story is based on how pool gambling was in the 80s. If you lost a match there was always somewhere you could go to win your money back plus a lot more in some cases. Every bar you went to they were playing for $10.-$20 a game and many "challenge table" bar tables had $50. games going on all the time.

Most of the trips I went on with other top notch road players we averaged winning $800, and sometimes $1000. a day (this was average). Sometimes we would hit a big score for 15k-20k and really boost our daily average up. We played every day and never rested until the road trip was over, then my partner would go back home to rest and I'd get another partner and keep going. I kept this pace up for many years, and covered the country many times in the places that pool gambling was prevalent.

I would sometimes play/gamble every day for months at a time in those days. One stretch I went three straight years without losing and won over a million dollars (I had partners so about 60% was my end).

This doesn't exist anymore, there's not even close to as much action today as there was in the 80s. Also, the information travels faster and camera phones can get you seriously hurt if you're out "hustling". Many times I played guys that thought I was "CJ," but I would deny it until I won all the money, then escape before they could ever prove who I really was.

This is difficult to imagine now, but it was like this all over the country, especially in Texas, OK, Tenn., Kentucky, Al., Carolina s, etc.

CJ,

thats some good stuff, I remember it all well.

I remember the "golden age years" for hustlin' around from town to town very well , Calvin and I had those little black books too, and sometimes having met people over the years we had places to stay in most all areas of the country which helped cover the "Nut" you know, I hope that oneday the good years for pool will return in some way.

The casino's, cell phones, poker, ect.... all but dried up the easy money on pool tables, it was amazing all the action that was going on in every single town across the good Ole USA, but in the Southern States it was at it's best!

There's good action now in certain places but it's a different ball game in the pool world compaired to yester year.


David Harcrow

 

[Woof Biscuit]

Great stories, CJ!!! I would love to hear your Reid Pierce story. I'm from MS originally and watched him play a whole lot. He quit too soon, in my opinion.

 

[9Ball_JJ]

CJ, you mentioned Little Sergio in an earlier post. Do you mean Sergio Vargas that used to live in Dallas about 10 years ago? Jay has told a few stories about him and it's my understanding that he had a top gear. I would run into Sergio at different tournaments around town and he would tell me stories of playing 1-handed for big money. Did you guys ever match up?

 

[catpool9]

Player Encounters on the tables!

CJ,

you are going to be very busy looks like telling stories about all the players you have encountered, can't wait to hear them all.

I would like to hear about you and David Matlock, whether gambilg or in a tournament, he has the most unique stroke of all the players that I have ever seen, Brian Atchley is the only guy that I can remember having a stroke like his.


David Harcrow

 

[rayjay]

I feel a book coming on.

 

[CJ Wiley]

hand on the table playing 8 Ball and off the table playing 9 Ball

[/IMG]

You have your fingers really tight together, look almost off balance. You shoot that way now also? No issues with the bridge hand moving on a shot? Looks like the opposite of what Deuel does, he splays his fingers out almost on every shot.

No, I don't make that bridge at all anymore, this picture was taken when I was around 14 years old. I like to put my fingers on the table, spread out for balance and stability like most of the other top players.

In this picture I was playing 8 Ball and like Earl Stickland said it's best to keep your hand on the table{more} playing 8 Ball and off the table{more} playing 9 Ball. This has to do with enhancing cue ball mobility as opposed to control.

In 8 Ball the cue ball has the priority and you have to play more precisely, in 9 Ball the object ball as more of a priority because the shots will naturally be more difficult and the cue ball is best positioned through going extra rails and being very conscious of positioning "zones". In other words you always want to be going TOWARDS the correct angle "slot" for the next shot.

 

[Lock N Load]

CJ,

thats some good stuff, I remember it all well.

I remember the "golden age years" for hustlin' around from town to town very well , Calvin and I had those little black books too, and sometimes having met people over the years we had places to stay in most all areas of the country which helped cover the "Nut" you know, I hope that oneday the good years for pool will return in some way.

The casino's, cell phones, poker, ect.... all but dried up the easy money on pool tables, it was amazing all the action that was going on in every single town across the good Ole USA, but in the Southern States it was at it's best!

There's good action now in certain places but it's a different ball game in the pool world compaired to yester year.


David Harcrow

Hey Catman,
It is not over at the worlds pool hall, Buffalo Billiards. Last night when I left there was a set going on, even 9 ball for 3000 Rabbits and a 1000 Rabbits on the side and the next table was another game going on One Pocket 11/5 to one player. For a bunch of Rabbits a game.

There was Benny Conway Jr, Josh Roberts, Richie Richeson, Rerun, West Bank John, West Bank Richie, Big Chris, Electric Mike, Eddie Brown, Jammie Farrell, Buffalo, Casey, Kid Carl, Andy Cap, Ronnie D, all at one time and some of them were in action. Just saying. Now these were small sets too.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[catpool9]

The Worlds Pool Hall, " Buffalo Billiards "

Hey Catman,
It is not over at the worlds pool hall, Buffalo Billiards. Last night when I left there was a set going on, even 9 ball for 3000 Rabbits and a 1000 Rabbits on the side and the next table was another game going on One Pocket 11/5 to one player. For a bunch of Rabbits a game.

There was Benny Conway Jr, Josh Roberts, Richie Richeson, Rerun, West Bank John, West Bank Richie, Big Chris, Electric Mike, Eddie Brown, Jammie Farrell, Buffalo, Casey, Kid Carl, Andy Cap, Ronnie D, all at one time and some of them were in action. Just saying. Now these were small sets too.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

Lock,

sounds like you certainly have it going at The Worlds Pool Hall " Buffalo Billiards"

right now I can't ketch a crippled chicken on a pool table, much less run down a rabbit!......lol:grin:

When Calvin gets all healed up from surgery maybe we can make a trip down and have some fun together!


David

 

[Gilbertfan81]

CJ I would like to hear your Shannon daulton story

 

[Gilbertfan81]

Cj

CJ did you forget about us? U got our mouths watering now u gotta deliver!

 

[hoseboss]

hey cj, any palm beach county fl stories? or south fl.

 

[catpool9]

Steve Hines

CJ,

did you ever play Steve Hines? I think that was his name , I believe he was from somewhere in Texas, may have been a part-time bookie too.

One time at Rusty's Billiards on the Northwest HWY. back in about 1980 Gary "C" Seay was playing Calvin some $1,000 and $2,000 sets of 9-Ball on the bar table, and Steve was in on part of Gary's bet.

Well after 2 1'2 days of playing Calvin, Gary " C " collapsed from exhaustion right there while starting to break the balls, after about 5 minutes he contined to play, after a few more hours he fell out, and this time he crawled under the table they were playing on and passed out, well Calvin wanted the money but Steve Hines said he would finish the set, so they contined the set, 6 hours later Gary " C " woke up, the coin was still in the same spot where it was before Gary's big sleep.


Calvin finally got the $:smile:

That Steve Hines played pretty sporty, not a top shelf player but he hit um pretty good on the bar table.

I wonder what ever happen to him, cause I've never heard a word about him since.


David Harcrow

 

[CJ Wiley]

I knew he was destined for greatness.

CJ did you forget about us? U got our mouths watering now u gotta deliver!

That's funny, I'll answer all the questions, I'm booked up with private lessons the last two days through the weekend, so I'll answer a few more later tonight. I'll tell one of my Shannon Dalton stories about when Jr. Weldon and I made a "house call" to Summerset Kentucky when Shannon was about 13 years old. He was one of the most entertaining 13 year olds in the country, I'll assure you of that. :thumbup: I knew he was destined for greatness.