Cliff Joyner looking for sponsors

Well Tom. Mike was one of my best friends since i was 16yrs old. If I could travel , I would be out looking for this punk. Cliff knew Mike well, and I felt this was a great opportunity to remind everyone that this killer is still out there, and that most people dont know that there is a 10k reward. I'm sure Cliff didn't mind the post.
I wish Cliff all the best. If the post bothered you, well, thats your problem. I would hope that if someone killed your best friend, you would do all you can to catch the coward.
Every post I make has a link to Americas Most Wanted vid and to the Justice for Mike Surber website.

I haven't ran the video on the show in sometime I need to start doing that again.I really can't believe we haven't caught that guy. The last time I ran the video we actually got a lead in Texas. The cops came and didn't find anything. if I could get a copy of the YouTube video from America's Most Wanted I would air that. Let me know what I can air and I will do it.

Ray
 
Bobby D.

Wow , Calling out a guy with a severe shoulder injury. I hope your dad doesn't here about this. Indy has overall been pretty good to me, Thanks Bob and Jeff. Now you were there when this tragic event occurred, You know I would love to come and match up with you. But I would just enjoy watching you play. If my shoulder ever allows me to play again I would love to come and Match Up. Key word, MATCH UP. Just for fun what could a 1 armed guy get ?
If I ever can play again, Im serious. How could we play. Injury was for real, You were there. Tell Sr .hello.
 
Not just about Cliff

I would like to clarify my opinion about this post , I havn't talked to Cliff in about a year. I guess what I see is a player that has paid is dues many times over. This is my view because I have been there as a lot of top players could use a sponsor. Not that I have ever been a top player. I do know that trying to make it in our sport is tough enough without these guys that come on here and bash players.
There is a lot of very capable players that could use a sponsor. I know that most people can not afford this, But for those who can, There are a lot of quality players that are in the position of needing sponsored.
If you ever want pool to become a major venue, Support these men or women and keep your negativity to your self.
Sincerely Yours
Gary Lutman
 
Making it to the finals is rather note-worthy.
Lotta players would like to say they came second to Shane in a world finals.

Couldn't agree more. Sorry if my attempt at humor didn't work well.

It was a good matchup and a pleasure to watch.
 
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"well that's my problem?"

A guy is trying to get some help with a tournament and you reply with there is a 10k reward for mikes killer, are you serious? You think that's an acceptable answer?

God hope you never need money for anything and someone responds to you that you can go hunt down a reward and make money.



Well Tom. Mike was one of my best friends since he was 16yrs old. If I could travel , I would be out looking for this punk. Cliff knew Mike well, and I felt this was a great opportunity to remind everyone that this killer is still out there, and that most people dont know that there is a 10k reward. I'm sure Cliff didn't mind the post.
I wish Cliff all the best. If the post bothered you, well, thats your problem. I would hope that if someone killed your best friend, you would do all you can to catch the coward.
Every post I make has a link to Americas Most Wanted vid and to the Justice for Mike Surber website.
 
"well that's my problem?"

A guy is trying to get some help with a tournament and you reply with there is a 10k reward for mikes killer, are you serious? You think that's an acceptable answer?

God hope you never need money for anything and someone responds to you that you can go hunt down a reward and make money.

Tommy;

I didn't interpret what gunn slinger wrote as disparaging to Cliff.

I read her comment as simply taking an opportunity to place some much needed spotlight on the Mike Surber murder, and why not let everyone you can know there is a $10k reward being offered.

And as you are likely aware, Cliff runs in the area of the country where Mike Surber was killed so you never know whose path he might cross.

I seriously didn't sense any disrespect.

Just my two cents.

best,
brian kc
 
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There are a lot of hit-and-run posts on this forum sometimes, to include cryptic messages intended to slice.

Over the years, I've gotten used to it on AzBilliards. Now I just consider the source and move on.

One thing for sure, pro players will never get any respect on AzBilliards Discussion Forum, and that's okay. Where else can people rip apart the professionals in our industry and have fun doing it? Welcome to AzBilliards Discussion Forum, the place where pro players are regarded as pariahs and no-good bums! :)
 
Foolish???

Do you have any clue what its like going from tournament to tournament trying to make a living at what you are, A world class player ?? I don't think so. I have been there and done that, If you had your comment to me is foolish and near sighted.
Other pro players have sponsors, in pool and other sports. Everyone has their own opinion and I respect that.
I think Cliff is looking for a Sponsor, Stakehorse, or whatever you want to call it, Therefore if he plays well it is a 50-50 split after expenses.
This is not a bite. Playing pool for a living makes tough , thick skinned people who could never be content not following their dream .
Now a description of a bite. A bite is after a player comes and plays the best players in the world and spends 10 days playing hard and unfortunately doesn't cash, But gave it his all. He may at this point need money to get home or to the next tournament. Some may ca,ll this a bite. I have been bit by Cliff and Louis. Playing for a living is brutal. Don't knock it till you try it. Were a different breed.
Cliff Joyner is looking for a sponsor...........
Sincerely,
Gary Lutman

Gary...

I know a few World class players. Each of them at this time don't have 2 nickels to rub together.

While I was working and saving for my retirement and therfore unable to try and acheive my goal to be a world class player these guys were out there living the carefree life of the hustler, tour player or what ever you want to call it.

There is a difference between a Sponsor and a Stakehorse.
No where in his original post does Mr Joyner say he will split and potential winnings 50/50 for 60/40 or any percentage.

Very few and I mean very few players can make a living at this sport.

That is a real shame. But it is reality and until the time comes when a player can make a living I suggest players get a job that allows them to pursue their passion and put food on the table.

There are several players past and present who played real high and now or did bite all the time.

No need to mention names. We know who they are.

Like I said earlier, good luck in your "sponsorship request".
I Just won't be one of them.

Don
 
Billions of dollars are spent to sponsor professional athletes ever year

There are a lot of hit-and-run posts on this forum sometimes, to include cryptic messages intended to slice.

Over the years, I've gotten used to it on AzBilliards. Now I just consider the source and move on.

One thing for sure, pro players will never get any respect on AzBilliards Discussion Forum, and that's okay. Where else can people rip apart the professionals in our industry and have fun doing it? Welcome to AzBilliards Discussion Forum, the place where pro players are regarded as pariahs and no-good bums! :)

I hope you're only joking to make a point, JAM - what you are communicating is not true from my experience....as a matter of fact it's quite the contrary.

From my experience the majority of the forum members are very respectful, good natured, and courteous. I've had close to 500 members email me and/or Private Message me during the last 8 months and only a few negative remarks.

Sure, there's been some constructive criticism, but that's actually a positive thing and welcomed by anyone wanting to better themselves. I'm sure Cliff understands this.

Most professional athletes have sponsors, I'm not sure how sponsorship and "handouts" can even be remotely connected. Billions of dollars are spent to sponsor professional athletes ever year, it's as American as Baseball, Hotdogs, and TOI. ;)
 
Gary...

I know a few World class players. Each of them at this time don't have 2 nickels to rub together.

While I was working and saving for my retirement and therfore unable to try and acheive my goal to be a world class player these guys were out there living the carefree life of the hustler, tour player or what ever you want to call it.

There is a difference between a Sponsor and a Stakehorse.
No where in his original post does Mr Joyner say he will split and potential winnings 50/50 for 60/40 or any percentage.

Very few and I mean very few players can make a living at this sport.

That is a real shame. But it is reality and until the time comes when a player can make a living I suggest players get a job that allows them to pursue their passion and put food on the table.

There are several players past and present who played real high and now or did bite all the time.

No need to mention names. We know who they are.

Like I said earlier, good luck in your "sponsorship request".
I Just won't be one of them.

Don

Don, This isn't about you. your original post you admittedly didn't know Cliff. However you come on this forum and publicly say the best players put bites on people and so on.
I have been around a long time and gambled , played tournament matches against a lot of the best players. I learned a long time ago I needed a income, so I opened a couple of billiard rooms. My game quickly went down.These players trying to make it by just playing pool have my respect.
Like someone else posted if the game was golf, People would be paying huge money for a ticket to watch.
Next someone named Catnip comes on here and just belittles Mr. Joiner. Is this the support our sport needs and deserves ? Regardless of your opinion, Mr. Joiner and players like him work hard, And if you think it is a carefree life, Try it.
If someone doesn't know the difference between sponsor and stakehorse I explained what I thought it meant. My suggestion implied a split. If Cliffs didn't I think he would be pleased with an equal split after expenses, I would.
Good Luck to all the players going to the Southern Classic, More sponsors = More players = Successful tournament. Also Greg may be able to add more events. Or we can sit on our couch with our computer and enjoy (in our mind) bashing the most talented pool players on earth, Because they grew up near a billiard room instead of a golf course.
Good Luck to all, Wish I could make it.
Gary Lutman
 
I hope you're only joking to make a point, JAM - what you are communicating is not true from my experience....as a matter of fact it's quite the contrary.

From my experience the majority of the forum members are very respectful, good natured, and courteous. I've had close to 500 members email me and/or Private Message me during the last 8 months and only a few negative remarks.

Sure, there's been some constructive criticism, but that's actually a positive thing and welcomed by anyone wanting to better themselves. I'm sure Cliff understands this.

Most professional athletes have sponsors, I'm not sure how sponsorship and "handouts" can even be remotely connected. Billions of dollars are spent to sponsor professional athletes ever year, it's as American as Baseball, Hotdogs, and TOI. ;)

I am half joking and half serious, C.J. On the one hand, I am elated that you have found the members of this forum to be welcoming and kind to you personally.

My experience on this forum since I joined in 2004 has tainted my opinion on how so-called "professional pool players" are regarded by the members of this forum. I could elaborate, but I don't want to start a back-and-forth on this topic in this thread.

My opinion is that Cliff Joyner was seeking funds to participate in the tournament, the arrangements of which as far as the chop-chop would be handled in private via e-mail or phone. In so coming on this forum, he has subjected himself to ridicule by the membership here. I'm sure if he would have known that, he would have never agreed to come to this wonderful pool forum to look for a stakehorse, sponsor, backer, whatever you want to call it.

Cliff Joyner is a one-pocket pool phenom. For years and years, I'd venture to even say a decade or more, this man couldn't get played unless he gave out huge spots. The pool aficionados, railbirds, wannabes, and nits would most definitely gather around his table, hoping to catch a glimpse of pool at its finest.

Today, in the autumn of Cliff's life, this one-pocket champion, this American legendary player, is not only passed over to be inducted into the One Pocket Hall of Fame, which I just can't figure out why since it is well known that he is/has been one of the top three one-pocket players in the country, if not the world, but when he comes to this forum in an effort to compete in an upcoming pool tournament, his request is met with mean-spirited comments.

Everyone, of course, as we all know, is entitled to feel the way they want to about Cliff, but I regard him as one of the best American pool players in my lifetime. Maybe when he dies and is buried in the ground, a few kind words can be said about him. Heck, he might even be recognized for his legendary one-pocket strength, which outshines the majority of one-hole players I've seen. The only exceptions I can think of would be Ronnie Allen, Grady Mathews, and Efren Reyes. And if I were to match Cliff's prime to any one of those three in their prime, it would be a "pick 'em" as far as the odds on who would win.

So, until then, I'll just accept the fact that pro pool players are regarded as pariahs and no-good bums, worthy of ridicule and insults on this pool forum, and you, C.J., can accept the fact that pro pool players are welcome and treated with respect on this pool forum. :)
 
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And as is my usual custom on AzBilliards, I must post a picture! :thumbup:

Keith McCready, Ricky B., and Cliff Joyner at the 2006 North American Championship in Las Vegas, NV. :smile:
 

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There have been a couple of comments to the effect of how hard it is "on the road."

Do you know what is really hard? Getting up every morning and going to work year after year and saving and investing for the life you want.

I doubt there is a single individual on this forum who would not rather be playing pool all the time. But, most folks here implicitly understand that that would be a poor life choice. If one day I were to discover that I had a talent for playing tiddlywinks and decided to go on the road and hustle tiddlywinks, match up at tiddlywinks, and play in tiddlywinks tournaments people would know I was nuts. But, for some reason many folks have a different mentality when it comes to pool.

Pool is not golf, or tennis, or like any other sport that lucratively rewards its best players. If you dedicate your life to the game you do so at your own peril.

Lou Figueroa
 
Amen

There have been a couple of comments to the effect of how hard it is "on the road."

Do you know what is really hard? Getting up every morning and going to work year after year and saving and investing for the life you want.

I doubt there is a single individual on this forum who would not rather be playing pool all the time. But, most folks here implicitly understand that that would be a poor life choice. If one day I were to discover that I had a talent for playing tiddlywinks and decided to go on the road and hustle tiddlywinks, match up at tiddlywinks, and play in tiddlywinks tournaments people would know I was nuts. But, for some reason many folks have a different mentality when it comes to pool.

Pool is not golf, or tennis, or like any other sport that lucratively rewards its best players. If you dedicate your life to the game you do so at your own peril.

Lou Figueroa

Lou..

You hit the nail on the head.

Don
 
Lou....Do you mean that nobody went down the "high school" (grammar school for some) graduation line and assigned our vocations (i.e. electrician, fireman, policeman, pool player, serial killer etc..etc..)? OH NO!...You mean I could of chosen "serial killer" instead?....SHIT!
 
Don, This isn't about you. your original post you admittedly didn't know Cliff. However you come on this forum and publicly say the best players put bites on people and so on.
I have been around a long time and gambled , played tournament matches against a lot of the best players. I learned a long time ago I needed a income, so I opened a couple of billiard rooms. My game quickly went down.These players trying to make it by just playing pool have my respect.
Like someone else posted if the game was golf, People would be paying huge money for a ticket to watch.
Next someone named Catnip comes on here and just belittles Mr. Joiner. Is this the support our sport needs and deserves ? Regardless of your opinion, Mr. Joiner and players like him work hard, And if you think it is a carefree life, Try it. If someone doesn't know the difference between sponsor and stakehorse I explained what I thought it meant. My suggestion implied a split. If Cliffs didn't I think he would be pleased with an equal split after expenses, I would.
Good Luck to all the players going to the Southern Classic, More sponsors = More players = Successful tournament. Also Greg may be able to add more events. Or we can sit on our couch with our computer and enjoy (in our mind) bashing the most talented pool players on earth, Because they grew up near a billiard room instead of a golf course.
Good Luck to all, Wish I could make it.
Gary Lutman

Gary.. I am going to take your adivce and work real hard to become a "World Class Player" now that I am retired.

I will need some funding to pay for all the time that I will have to spend at the Pool Hall and maybe a lesson or 2 from a top flite coach to fine tune my game.

Any chance I can count you in on a sponsorship?
 
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