APA Corruption..?

Rio,

Just for your information, I saw ChrisBanks yesterday. He's doing just fine. Really misses conversing with the folks at AZ. Won't change his mind about anything though. Think his ban will be permanent.

Lyn
 
Rio,

Just for your information, I saw ChrisBanks yesterday. He's doing just fine. Really misses conversing with the folks at AZ. Won't change his mind about anything though. Think his ban will be permanent.

Lyn

Man that sucks. I dont think he did anything so bad to get a permanent ban. I actually miss the guy..
 
Is this normal LO behavior? Is this the way that the APA wants their loyal paying players treated? The APA markets itself as fair unbias league but if the LO is allowed to do as she or he pleases with no one to answer to the that marketing ploy is nothing more than a delusion of granger. And every member is being lied to.

What IS normal behavior for an APA League Operator? They can run the gamut of being the "best thing since sliced bread" to the biggest a$$holes on the planet. You obviously have one that is closer to the latter description. I played under one like that for several years until I moved on to a different league area. You have choices, but like many others in your situation, most of them are not going to make life any easier on you. You can:

1.) Find a different league/league area to play in.

2.) Quit league altogether.

3.) Start a league of your own.

4.) Come to the realization that your LO is a bona fide turdbucket that is always going to have the league in turmoil while utilizing gestapo-like tactics with smugness, and arrogance and learn to fade all the bullsh*t and just go and do the best you can with what you've got to work with. (whew...that was a mouthful :D)

Good luck with your choices. I know how frustrating it can get (especially if you and your teammates are all honest, hard-trying players). Been there, done that.

The only APA league I will ever play in again is Masters League.

Maniac (done with handicapping BS)
 
A bca handicap league is starting here in a few months. I was at my wifes apa match last night. It's an in house league so there were quite a few teams there and I was stunned at how many teams were either making the change to bca definitely or considering it. A lot of people are playing apa here because as far as handicap leagues in york it was your only choice. I think the apa ops are stunned because they think no one will leave them. There seems to be a lot of people tired of seeing there team screwed because they can't make that magical 23 number. They want to get better but can't afford to if they want to stay competitive and not have to go on the new player search. The bca handycaps your final score based on who you play so having low numbers isn't a must.

I think a lot of people were disgruntled over the teams that won ltc's. The two team were the same people except for one player so they got 10 grand for each team. So essentially they're getting 20 grand for one hell of a trip to vegas. I say good for them ...have fun but others thought it was unfair and apparently there was a huge fight at the end between the lo and the losing team. lol of course I hear it was about handy caps magically going up. I don't know though if that is true or just sour grapes. Maybe a little of both lol
 
A bca handicap league is starting here in a few months. BCA does indeed have a better handicapping system.

There seems to be a lot of people tired of seeing there team screwed because they can't make that magical 23 number. This is the downfall of the league, especially in 9-ball where the skill levels go all the way up to a 9.

The BCA league I played in did not handicap the players, but rather the team as a whole, and it worked very good (at least in OUR league it did).

The 23-rule is the root of all evil in the APA.

Maniac
 
The BCA league I played in did not handicap the players, but rather the team as a whole, and it worked very good (at least in OUR league it did).

The 23-rule is the root of all evil in the APA.

Maniac

Exactly. What I enjoy about leagues is hanging out with my friends and the camaraderie and because of the apa 23 rules it just hard to keep a team together.
 
Exactly. What I enjoy about leagues is hanging out with my friends and the camaraderie and because of the apa 23 rules it just hard to keep a team together.

Just curious about the 23 rule. If the HC system is correct, and everyone is on the up and up, what difference does it make if you have a full team of 6's ??

I mean, you still have to spot a team of 4's two games every match.... should not this be an even match ? If not, why not ?
 
Just curious about the 23 rule. If the HC system is correct, and everyone is on the up and up, what difference does it make if you have a full team of 6's ??

I mean, you still have to spot a team of 4's two games every match.... should not this be an even match ? If not, why not ?

You still have to be able to play 5 matches and stay at 23 or under, so you need those lower s/l's, and in 9 ball you can only play 2 senior level players, senior level players are s/l's 6, 7, 8, 9. If you can't meet the 23 rule due to s/l issues you can play 4 players at up to 19 s/l points or 3 at ( I think, please correct me if I am wrong), 3 players at up to 17 s/l points. So to meet the 23 rule you really need a couple of lower s/l players
 
A bca handicap league is starting here in a few months. I was at my wifes apa match last night. It's an in house league so there were quite a few teams there and I was stunned at how many teams were either making the change to bca definitely or considering it. A lot of people are playing apa here because as far as handicap leagues in york it was your only choice. I think the apa ops are stunned because they think no one will leave them. There seems to be a lot of people tired of seeing there team screwed because they can't make that magical 23 number. They want to get better but can't afford to if they want to stay competitive and not have to go on the new player search. The bca handycaps your final score based on who you play so having low numbers isn't a must.

I think a lot of people were disgruntled over the teams that won ltc's. The two team were the same people except for one player so they got 10 grand for each team. So essentially they're getting 20 grand for one hell of a trip to vegas. I say good for them ...have fun but others thought it was unfair and apparently there was a huge fight at the end between the lo and the losing team. lol of course I hear it was about handy caps magically going up. I don't know though if that is true or just sour grapes. Maybe a little of both lol

:)


There was some talk about shooting TAP League out of Finley's. I think it was 3 or 4 teams out of Finley's. With TAP, you can have up to 25 instead of 23.

With TAP, most all male players can start out at a 4 and women a 2 or 3.

I think it would work better than APA.


:yes:
 
I'd give it a go. Rich nace is there lo and he claims to steal a ton of Apa teams with out really trying. They come to him.


:)


There was some talk about shooting TAP League out of Finley's. I think it was 3 or 4 teams out of Finley's. With TAP, you can have up to 25 instead of 23.

With TAP, most all male players can start out at a 4 and women a 2 or 3.

I think it would work better than APA.


:yes:
 
Just curious about the 23 rule. If the HC system is correct, and everyone is on the up and up, what difference does it make if you have a full team of 6's ??

I mean, you still have to spot a team of 4's two games every match.... should not this be an even match ? If not, why not ?

This is the grand argument, and here is my take on it.

The handicap seems to give the lesser player a chance to beat the better player, if the lesser players plays at or above his normal ability. And the better player plays at or below his usual game....

Note I said "a chance." I am a 5, which means I have to win three games before an SL7 wins five games, in 8-ball. We have about seven or eight of those level players here actively, and I realistically have a chance against one or two of them in that race.

Why? Because they are better. Simple. They shoot better, get position better, and most importantly they manage the game better. That's why they are better players. Simple.

I don't have an issue with it. I play with most of these guys on a regular basis, so I know the gap in ability. I think the spot is fair enough. I have to play a really good match and hope they dont play their best to win, which seems about right, to me.

Opposite scenario, last night I play a SL3. I have to win four before he wins two. I didn't play very well, but beat him because I played a smarter game. But if he played above his game for even a short while, he could have won.

Is it perfect, no. Is it completely "equal", no. But it works reasonably well most of the time, when people dont screw with the system.
 
I'd give it a go. Rich nace is there lo and he claims to steal a ton of Apa teams with out really trying. They come to him.

in our tap league you will typically be 1 or 2 skill levels below your apa sl in 8 ball and maybe as much as 4 below in 9 ball
 
in our tap league you will typically be 1 or 2 skill levels below your apa sl in 8 ball and maybe as much as 4 below in 9 ball

:thumbup:


Very true! In TAP League every shot is recorded. Should be a separate place for a scratch and ball in hand...just my opinion.

One thing I noticed with APA, the local league where a friend of mine shot, there were no really strong players. So the player that was one of the best in the league shot as a 6 or 7 because it went by the skill level in the overall league.

Now that 6 or 7 from that league goes to a national event, he or she doesn't have a chance.

At least in TAP League, it is a little better but it is really tough and a lot of matches can go either way. Most of the 7's in TAP league are true 7's or close to being PRO.

:smile:
 
I meant in the context of submitting written inquires and getting a reply. Sorry, I should have been clearer in my OP. Was not meaning to imply that the subject of this thread falls under the umbrella of disciplinary action. More like an administration question.

Sorry. My mistake.
 
Sounds like a crappy situation. I just joined an BCA league this spring. I didn't want to join the APA simply because many of the APA league shooters I know ALWAYS talk about laying down or sandbagging. I joined the BCA league because every BCA player I've talked to (I know far more APA players than BCA players) seems to want play to get better, no laying down, go hard or go home. I like it like that.

I pretty much took sandbagging as in integral part of the APA, seriously. And I think that might be the problem here. For example, and I could be completely wrong, but sandbagging seems to be such a big thing with the APA that maybe the LO thought your team mate was sandbagging. If he wasn't, maybe he should have and this thread wouldn't exist. I'm just saying.

From what I've read I believe your team mate was playing the best he could 100% of the time. Maybe he should look into another league that's composed of better players and players who want to win the right way.

I'm not sure how this BCA league is going to shake out but if I think I'm being cheated,my next step would be a TAP league or I would just get more involved in the local open tournaments being held at the bars and pool halls. Their is always a chance of winning one for the C+ to B players so it keeps me interested.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts and since I'm a baby in the pool league world, I could be totally wrong.
 
So much gets attributed to sandbagging and i'm sure there is a little of that there is some, but a lot of it has to do with what the players are used to. If you are used to playing on tight pocket 9 foot tables then go to bar boxes with buckets you should play a skill level or more higher. My band r percentages are much higher on bar boxes simply because there are more cluster breaking opportunities on the small box,
 
I have a few questions for you apa operator.

1. I know you cant divulge how the handicap formula works but can you answer how much safties factor into a persons handicap ?

No. I tell my players that probably 95% of the time the defensive shots won't change the score you get for your match, but if you don't mark them all, 5% of the players you play will be underrated. I'm just guessing at the numbers, but the point is valid whatever the real numbers are.


2. is it true that a person would never be lowered 2 handicap levels ? example : a person has been a 5 for a year, goes to a 6 for 1 session, falls back to a 5 the next session. stays a 5 for 3 sessions then falls to a 25% win record . is it true he will never be lowered to a 4 no matter what his record becomes simply because he reached a 6 for 1 session?

3. can a person petition to have a handicap level lowered due to a disability ? for example an injury to your shooting hand that symptoms worsen as you age ?

.4. I know you their is such a thing as having your handicap locked in at the national level. would your local handicap level be locked in at the level you qualified for a regional tournament also ? example : a person qualifies for a singles regional as a 3. is it true she could never be lowered to a 2 at the local level just because she qualified at the regionals as a 3 and went 0-2.

All three of these questions are addressed on page 37 of the current Team Manual, under "Lowest Attainable Rule" and "National Lowest Attainable Rule". Not everyone who participates at the national level will receive a National Lowest Attainable (NLA). I don't think anyone gets an NLA from participation at the regional level, but I could be wrong.
 
There are other options out there.

I might suggest the BCAPL - which is a round robin format with no national handicapp system - with the Nationals played by division.

Or the USAPL - which is a match play format.
It has a 'better' handicap system than the APA - and I think you will find fewer problems like those you described.

Either way, if your report is accurate, something needs to change.

Mark Griffin

BTE - you do NOT have to win a division etc to go to our nationals. All you have to do is be a member and play enough weeks. I think that alone makes it less incentive to 'manuever' your way to the top. Pool is supposed to be fun!

BCAPL is not squeaky clean either! There is corruption amongst your league operators as well! I've experienced it first hand!! But then again you get your $15.00 a head so we will brush it under the rug!!
 
BCAPL is not squeaky clean either! There is corruption amongst your league operators as well! I've experienced it first hand!! But then again you get your $15.00 a head so we will brush it under the rug!!

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