Billiard University (BU) playing-ability-exam scores and ratings

Below are my scores for the 10 ball portion. I have to say, I hate playing the 10 ball ghost on a very tight bar table where you can't cheat the pockets. And, why is it that if balls are going to tie up bad, it's always got to be an early ball that you have to break out AND get a shot on somewhere? Why isn't it ever a higher ball that you can just break out??

1.- 4, 5, 4, 10, 2, 5, 10, 3, 4, 5. = 52
2.-10, 5, 1, 10, 10, 10, 6, 4, 6, 0. = 62
3. 10, 4, 10, 1, 1, 2, 2, 10, 10, 10.= 60
 
Eric. said:
You've bastardized the JT 10 Ball drill. Instead of playing 10 sets, and getting 10 scores, you changed it to "play 3 sets and take the median score".
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By 3 sets, I actually meant 3 sets of the "JT 10-racks of 10 ball" (30 10-ball racks total). I wasn't changing the drill at all. I was just suggesting that it be done multiple times.

Eric. said:
I'm thinking that if you are gonna alter the drill, maybe do something like- play 10 sets, throw out the highest and lowest scores, then use the *mean* calculation of the remaining 8 scores. I feel that mean is a better reflection than median.
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That's a good idea, especially if you do it multiple times. Or, keep track of all of your 10-ball rack scores (e.g., 30 if doing the drill 3 times) and throw out the bottom 5 and top 5, and average (or use the median of) the rest ... or something like that.

Eric. said:
as mentioned in our PM's, I will try to find time to at least read through the whole BU program, this weekend. I am interested in these types of drills because they can quantify one's playing skill nicely. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to dedicate towards this, since I first got involved, way back in...Tuesday of this week.
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I understand. I look forward to seeing your scores (and videos) when you can find some time.

Eric. said:
I already know my JT 10 Ball averages, since I do it often. I'll do your BU thing, recording the very first, unpracticed score, then I'll fiddle with the drills that i score poorly on and retake it after I'm real familiar with the BU drill.
Click to expand...
Sounds good.

Eric. said:
I expect to see a big gap between first and last scores.
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I expect the same thing. That's why a "well-practiced" BU score should be used as the basis for rating ... for consistency among participants. I suspect a statistically-valid JT-10-ball-ghost rating will be in the same ball park. If not, I will probably do some more correlation and tweaking.

Catch you later,
Dave
 
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Neil said:
Below are my scores for the 10 ball portion. I have to say, I hate playing the 10 ball ghost on a very tight bar table where you can't cheat the pockets. And, why is it that if balls are going to tie up bad, it's always got to be an early ball that you have to break out AND get a shot on somewhere? Why isn't it ever a higher ball that you can just break out??

1.- 4, 5, 4, 10, 2, 5, 10, 3, 4, 5. = 52
2.-10, 5, 1, 10, 10, 10, 6, 4, 6, 0. = 62
3. 10, 4, 10, 1, 1, 2, 2, 10, 10, 10.= 60
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Using the simple median (middle value) method, with no calculations required, I'll call that a 60 (which we can update in the future if you get more data).

Here's what we have so far:

List of AZB'ers who have taken the BU playing-ability exams so far (in ranked order):

BU score, Username, BU Rating, 10-ball ghost rating, Video links (if available):

160, Gerry Williams, semi-pro (A++/AAA), no 10-ball ghost score yet, Table Setup, Exam I (part 1, part 2), Exam II
149, scottjen26, adv-3 (A+/AA), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)
141, 12squared (Dave Gross), adv-3 (A+/AA), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)
141, Neil, adv-3 (A+/AA), 60 (A), Exam (part 1, part 2), Exam II (part 1, part 2, part 3)
135, dr_dave, adv-2 (A/A-), 54 (B+), Exam I, Exam II
132, Gerry Williams, adv-2 (A/A-), no 10-ball ghost score yet, Table Setup, Exam I, Exam II (part 1, part 2)
132, BRussell, adv-2 (A/A-), no 10-ball ghost score yet, Exam I, Exam II
125, TheOneGnat, adv-2 (A/A-), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)
124, JC, adv-1 (B+/B), 42 (C+), Table Specs, Exam 1, Exam 2
117, RobMan, adv-1 (B+/B), 46 (B), no videos (see AZB post)
112, RobMan, adv-1 (B+/B), 46 (B), no videos (see AZB post)
87, iusedtoberich, int-2 (C+), 38 (C), Table Specs, Exam I, Exam II
78, iusedtoberich, int-2 (C+), 38 (C), Table Specs, Exam I, Exam II
77, SeanChamp, int-2 (C+), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)

Here are the details and scores for all official BU graduates.

To everybody: Keep the BU scores, videos, and 10-ball-ghost scores coming.

Thanks,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Neil said:
Below are my scores for the 10 ball portion. I have to say, I hate playing the 10 ball ghost on a very tight bar table where you can't cheat the pockets. And, why is it that if balls are going to tie up bad, it's always got to be an early ball that you have to break out AND get a shot on somewhere? Why isn't it ever a higher ball that you can just break out??

1.- 4, 5, 4, 10, 2, 5, 10, 3, 4, 5. = 52
2.-10, 5, 1, 10, 10, 10, 6, 4, 6, 0. = 62
3. 10, 4, 10, 1, 1, 2, 2, 10, 10, 10.= 60
Click to expand...

Using the simple median (middle value) method, with no calculations required, I'll call that a 60 (which we can update in the future if you get more data).
Click to expand...
The JT 10-ball ghost rating system rates a 60 as an "A" player. I would have expected you to be a bit higher ... maybe A+. But maybe the pockets (and your rotten luck) have something to do with it. Do you think you could do better on a different table with good play and not as much rotten luck? Let us know if you do more trials.

Thanks again for posting,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
The JT 10-ball ghost rating system rates a 60 as an "A" player. I would have expected you to be a bit higher ... maybe A+. But maybe the pockets (and your rotten luck) have something to do with it. Do you think you could do better on a different table with good play and not as much rotten luck? Let us know if you do more trials.

Thanks again for posting,
Dave
Click to expand...

If I just had a decent break I would have done better. I never play ten ball, so the break was a trial and error thing as I went along. Way too many times I was stuck only making one or two balls, that pretty much kills the score. "Real life", I could easily have played safe, can't do that in this drill, though.

Which goes along with what I stated earlier- it's too dependent on one shot- the break.

As far as rotten luck, I am rather known for that. :( Wish I had just a dollar for every time someone stated how amazed they are at how rotten my luck is. )Here's an example that I remember because it just baffles my mind (this really happened to me)- Playing 9 ball, 7 and 8 are tied up where neither goes. Three times I tried to break them out. All three times I hit the 8 too full and it double kissed the cb and stayed right there! Finally I'm down to the 6 ball. Take a tougher cut on it than I had to so I could get the breakout again on the 7/8. I nail it. Great shape on the 7 too! Wait! Here comes the 8 ball off three rails and stops dead between the 7 and the cb! Sometimes this game makes a grown man just want to cry.....
 
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dr_dave said:
The JT 10-ball ghost rating system rates a 60 as an "A" player. I would have expected you to be a bit higher ... maybe A+. But maybe the pockets (and your rotten luck) have something to do with it. Do you think you could do better on a different table with good play and not as much rotten luck? Let us know if you do more trials.

Thanks again for posting,
Dave
Click to expand...

FWIW, I've mentioned previously taht I feel the BU ratings are about a level too high. Statistically speaking, of the ppl that have done both the BU drills and the JT 10 Ball drill, it seems to support my observation.

I typically score in the 61-64 range on the JT 10 drill. excluding the off day and excluding the day when I'm playing unusually well. I play it several times a week, so those scores are a good, reliable avg. I'm curiuos to see how that lines up with the BU drills.


Eric
 
I got a 51 in 10 ball just now. I felt that it was terrible while I was doing it - I only got to the 10ball once and I had several 1s and 2s - but apparently that's a B+? I'm going to try it two more times. Maybe I'll even go best 3 out of 5 if I don't do any better my second try. :D
 
Dr. Dave...

As I mentioned in our PM's a couple days ago, I started to do the exam again and got frustrated, so I stopped. (For everyone else, I didn't wanna throw my fragile game off too far trying stuff right before my state tourneys...told Dave that I would get back to it once that is done).

So I've been thinking about it a little, and here's part of what was frustrating me. The second drill, the stop shot drill. I can usually stop the ball reasonably well at medium distances, shooting straight in, but for some reason, shooting that shot down the rail has me buffaloed. Same distances compared to across the table, or diagonally, but far worse results. It really got under my skin.

Any thoughts on why this might be?
 
justadub said:
Dr. Dave...

As I mentioned in our PM's a couple days ago, I started to do the exam again and got frustrated, so I stopped. (For everyone else, I didn't wanna throw my fragile game off too far trying stuff right before my state tourneys...told Dave that I would get back to it once that is done).

So I've been thinking about it a little, and here's part of what was frustrating me. The second drill, the stop shot drill. I can usually stop the ball reasonably well at medium distances, shooting straight in, but for some reason, shooting that shot down the rail has me buffaloed. Same distances compared to across the table, or diagonally, but far worse results. It really got under my skin.

Any thoughts on why this might be?
Click to expand...

If you have the cb and the ob the same distance off the rail, they aren't straight in to the center of the pocket. Place your ob, then use your cue to make a straight line to the cb from the center of the pocket opening. That might be your problem.??
 
Neil said:
If you have the cb and the ob the same distance off the rail, they aren't straight in to the center of the pocket. Place your ob, then use your cue to make a straight line to the cb from the center of the pocket opening. That might be your problem.??
Click to expand...

Perhaps, and maybe I didn't understand the setup properly, but at some point, say position 6 or 7, you can't put the cue ball far enough out into the middle of the table to do that, right? Not supposed to go more than 1 diamond towards the center of the table, if I recall (and am too lazy to check).

Probably just a mental thing, for which I am woefully underqualified :p
 
justadub said:
Perhaps, and maybe I didn't understand the setup properly, but at some point, say position 6 or 7, you can't put the cue ball far enough out into the middle of the table to do that, right? Not supposed to go more than 1 diamond towards the center of the table, if I recall (and am too lazy to check).

Probably just a mental thing, for which I am woefully underqualified :p
Click to expand...

You can still get it straight staying withing the parameters of the shot.
 
Neil said:
You can still get it straight staying withing the parameters of the shot.
Click to expand...

I'll try again, hopefully next week. Still, I think its the open pocket from across the table, vs the smaller opening down the rail, the more I think about it. Just gotta get a better handle on it.
 
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Eric. said:
FWIW, I've mentioned previously taht I feel the BU ratings are about a level too high. Statistically speaking, of the ppl that have done both the BU drills and the JT 10 Ball drill, it seems to support my observation.
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Here's the data so far:

List of AZB'ers who have taken the BU playing-ability exams so far (in ranked order):

BU score, Username, BU Rating, 10-ball ghost rating, Video links (if available):

160, Gerry Williams, semi-pro (A++/AAA), no 10-ball ghost score yet, Table Setup, Exam I (part 1, part 2), Exam II
149, scottjen26, adv-3 (A+/AA), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)
141, 12squared (Dave Gross), adv-3 (A+/AA), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)
141, Neil, adv-3 (A+/AA), 60 (A), Exam (part 1, part 2), Exam II (part 1, part 2, part 3)
135, dr_dave, adv-2 (A/A-), 54 (B+), Exam I, Exam II
132, Gerry Williams, adv-2 (A/A-), no 10-ball ghost score yet, Table Setup, Exam I, Exam II (part 1, part 2)
132, BRussell, adv-2 (A/A-), 51 (B+), Exam I, Exam II
125, TheOneGnat, adv-2 (A/A-), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)
124, JC, adv-1 (B+/B), 42 (C+), Table Specs, Exam 1, Exam 2
117, RobMan, adv-1 (B+/B), 46 (B), no videos (see AZB post)
112, RobMan, adv-1 (B+/B), 46 (B), no videos (see AZB post)
87, iusedtoberich, int-2 (C+), 38 (C), Table Specs, Exam I, Exam II
78, iusedtoberich, int-2 (C+), 38 (C), Table Specs, Exam I, Exam II
77, SeanChamp, int-2 (C+), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)

Here are the details and scores for all official BU graduates.

I would agree with you that so far the BU ratings seem about a half (+/-) or full level higher than the JT 10-ball ghost ratings. But both systems seem to be separating people according to their playing ability is a similar way (i.e., the trends are the same).

Eric. said:
I typically score in the 61-64 range on the JT 10 drill. excluding the off day and excluding the day when I'm playing unusually well. I play it several times a week, so those scores are a good, reliable avg. I'm curiuos to see how that lines up with the BU drills.
Click to expand...
Please post this info again when you share your BU score and videos (if available) so we will have it all in one place.

Thanks,
Dave
 
BRussell said:
I got a 51 in 10 ball just now. I felt that it was terrible while I was doing it - I only got to the 10ball once and I had several 1s and 2s - but apparently that's a B+? I'm going to try it two more times. Maybe I'll even go best 3 out of 5 if I don't do any better my second try. :D
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I've added this to the list, but please let us know if you do more trials.

Thanks,
Dave
 
... bumped to encourage others to post their BU score (and videos if available).

Also for those on the list below who haven't done the 10-ball-ghost drill, please consider doing this and post your score and rating.

Thanks,
Dave

dr_dave said:
I am very happy to announce the release of the Billiard University (BU) website: BilliardUniversity.org

I've been working on this project for about two years, and my efforts have been supported by a "dream team" of top instructors (the "founding professors" of the BU): Jerry Briesath, Mark Finkelstein, Randy Goettlicher, Bob Jewett, Mike Page, Tom Simpson, Mark Wilson, David Alciatore, and Randy Russell.

Please check out the website and videos and let us know what you think. Also, please let us know if you have any suggestions or recommendations.

Also, try the free BU playing-ability exams to assess your game and monitor improvement over time. Your BU score gives you a player rating and can qualify you to earn a diploma (Bachelors, Masters, or Doctorate of Pool). All of the exam documents (with well-illustrated shot diagrams) and score sheets needed to take the exams and track your progress are available on the BU Exam Resources Page.

The following videos provide complete demonstrations of all exam drills, along with how to score them:
BU Exam I Overview - demonstrations and scoring of the Fundamentals Exam
BU Exam II Overview - demonstrations and scoring of the Skills Exam

Please post your score after you take the exams so I can add your results to the list below. Also, if you have a video camera, please film and post videos for your exams. Instructions on how to do this can be found in the BU Exam Instructions document, and the following videos demonstrate each step in the process:
Video Recording - recording official exam runs for on-line submittal
Video Submittal - uploading videos and applying for a diploma
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

List of AZB'ers who have taken the BU playing-ability exams so far (in ranked order):

BU score, Username, BU Rating, 10-ball ghost rating, Video links (if available):

160, Gerry Williams, semi-pro (A++/AAA), no 10-ball ghost score yet, Table Setup, Exam I (part 1, part 2), Exam II
149, scottjen26, adv-3 (A+/AA), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)
141, 12squared (Dave Gross), adv-3 (A+/AA), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)
141, Neil, adv-3 (A+/AA), 60 (A), Exam (part 1, part 2), Exam II (part 1, part 2, part 3)
135, dr_dave, adv-2 (A/A-), 54 (B+), Exam I, Exam II
132, Gerry Williams, adv-2 (A/A-), no 10-ball ghost score yet, Table Setup, Exam I, Exam II (part 1, part 2)
132, BRussell, adv-2 (A/A-), 51 (B+), Exam I, Exam II
125, TheOneGnat, adv-2 (A/A-), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)
124, JC, adv-1 (B+/B), 42 (C+), Table Specs, Exam 1, Exam 2
117, RobMan, adv-1 (B+/B), 46 (B), no videos (see AZB post)
112, RobMan, adv-1 (B+/B), 46 (B), no videos (see AZB post)
87, iusedtoberich, int-2 (C+), 38 (C), Table Specs, Exam I, Exam II
78, iusedtoberich, int-2 (C+), 38 (C), Table Specs, Exam I, Exam II
77, SeanChamp, int-2 (C+), no 10-ball ghost score yet, no videos (see AZB post)

Here are the details and scores for all official BU graduates.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

if you decide to post your score, please also try the 10-ball "playing the ghost" drill so we can see how well a practiced BU score compares to an average "playing the ghost" score. I recommend doing the ghost drill 3 or more times (10 racks of 10-ball each) and using the middle (median) value of the 10-rack scores to help deal with the inherent (and sometimes extreme) variability. I will continue to add these scores and ratings to the BU rating list above for comparison and correlation purposes.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
 
Billiard University submission:

The table:
4 ½ X 9 ft Lehmacher Atlantis /Simonis 760 / pocket mouth 4 ½” / pocket Throat 4” / Shelf 1 ½” (I am uncertain about this measurement).
table setup: http://youtu.be/xeHsDjU3QJE


The results:
BU Exam 1:
F1: 8
F2: 6
F3: 8
F4: 2
F5: 6:
F6: 7
F7: 8
F8: 14
TTL: 59
Exam1_01 http://youtu.be/MEQmbAcfg94
Exam1_02 http://youtu.be/CKkiwbPOdZ4
Exam1_03 http://youtu.be/07HSidxTjS8


BU Exam 2:
S1: 7
S2:11
S3: 2
S4:10
S5: 3
S6: 2
S7: 2
S8: 3
S9: 4
S10: 5
TTL: 49

Combined 108

Exam2_01 http://youtu.be/C_JnX04k_Vg
Exam2_02 http://youtu.be/nHXMlg-cu1k
Exam2_03 http://youtu.be/OtY4WGrceEM

There is good reason for me to be disappointed in my exam 2 performance, but given the poor quality of music selection by some of the earlier posters my soundtrack (Bob Seger / Willie Nelson) is clearly superior.

Regards
Bert
 
row21097 said:
Billiard University submission:
The table:
4 ½ X 9 ft Lehmacher Atlantis /Simonis 760 / pocket mouth 4 ½” / pocket Throat 4” / Shelf 1 ½” (I am uncertain about this measurement).
table setup: http://youtu.be/xeHsDjU3QJE

Exam1_01 http://youtu.be/MEQmbAcfg94
Exam1_02 http://youtu.be/CKkiwbPOdZ4
Exam1_03 http://youtu.be/07HSidxTjS8

Combined 108

Exam2_01 http://youtu.be/C_JnX04k_Vg
Exam2_02 http://youtu.be/nHXMlg-cu1k
Exam2_03 http://youtu.be/OtY4WGrceEM
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting your scores and videos. FYI, I've added you to the list (see below). Please also consider posting a 10-ball ghost score and rating also.

NOTE - If you are on the list below and have "no throat yet" listed, please measure the "pocket throat size" (see below) and report it in the thread so I can add it to the list.

table_pocket_measurements.jpg

List of AZB'ers who have taken the BU playing-ability exams so far (in ranked order):

BU score -- Username -- BU Rating, 10-ball ghost rating -- table: size, corner pocket mouth, throat, shelf -- Video links (if available):

160 -- Gerry Williams -- semi-pro (A++/AAA), no 10-ball ghost score yet -- table: 9', 4 1/2", no throat yet, 1 7/8" -- Table Setup, Exam I (part 1, part 2), Exam II
149 -- scottjen26 -- adv-3 (A+/AA), no 10-ball ghost score yet -- table 9', 4 1/2", no throat yet, 1 1/2" -- no videos (see AZB post)
141 -- 12squared (Dave Gross) -- adv-3 (A+/AA); no 10-ball ghost score yet -- table: 9', 4 7/8", 4 1/8", 1 1/2" -- no videos (see AZB post)
141 -- Neil -- adv-3 (A+/AA); 60 (A) -- table: 7', 4 1/8", 3 1/2", 1 3/8" -- Exam (part 1, part 2), Exam II (part 1, part 2, part 3)
135 -- dr_dave -- adv-2 (A/A-), 54 (B+) -- table: 8', 4 3/4", 4 1/4", 1 1/4" -- Exam I, Exam II
132 -- Gerry Williams -- adv-2 (A/A-), no 10-ball ghost score yet -- table: 9', 4 1/2", no throat yet, 1 7/8" -- Table Setup, Exam I, Exam II (part 1, part 2)
132 -- BRussell -- adv-2 (A/A-), 51 (B+) -- table: 8', 5", 4 1/4", 1 1/2" -- Exam I, Exam II
125 -- TheOneGnat -- adv-2 (A/A-), no 10-ball ghost score yet -- table: 8', 4 1/2 in, 4 in, 1 5/8 in -- no videos (see AZB post)
124 -- JC -- adv-1 (B+/B), 42 (C+) -- table: 9', 4 7/16", no throat yet, 1 3/8" -- Table Specs, Exam 1, Exam 2
117 -- RobMan -- adv-1 (B+/B), 46 (B) -- table: 9', 5", no throat yet, 1" -- no videos (see AZB post)
112 -- RobMan -- adv-1 (B+/B), 46 (B) -- table: 9', 5", no throat yet, 1" -- no videos (see AZB post)
108 -- row21097 -- int-3 (B-/C+), no 10-ball ghost score yet -- table: 9', 4 1/2”, 4”, 1 1/2” -- Table Setup, Exam I (part 1, part 2, part 3), Exam II (part 1, part 2, part 3)
87 -- iusedtoberich -- int-2 (C+), 38 (C) -- table: 9', 5 1/8", not throat yet, 1 1/2" -- Table Specs, Exam I, Exam II
78 -- iusedtoberich -- int-2 (C+), 38 (C) -- table: 9', 5 1/8", not throat yet, 1 1/2" -- Table Specs, Exam I, Exam II
77 -- SeanChamp -- int-2 (C+), no 10-ball ghost score yet -- table: 8, 4 1/2", no throat yet, 1" -- no videos (see AZB post)

Here are the details and scores for all official BU graduates.

Regards,
Dave
 
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Gerry Williams said:
10 Ball ghost rating - scored 72 and 74, didn't do a third set as the median wouldn't change much…73.

I should average higher - haven't played in 10 days so rusty.

Uploading videos now.

Beat the ghost 11-9 over the 2 sets.
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That's strong ... like your BU score! I look forward to seeing your video.

FYI, I've added the info to the list.

Please also post your pocket throat size measurement per the drawing below, so I can add it to both the AZB list and the BU website:

table_pocket_measurements.jpg

Thanks,
Dave
 
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