Rule Question

OverCutAnything

OverCutAnything

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rule question. I understand that there are different rules for different tournaments, league etc; but I have yet to find an answer to the following situation under any of them. (Maybe I missed it)
Any help/suggestions/opinions would be nice to read. Thanks.
I have used this move in 8, 9 & 10 ball and I can see it being used in other games also
.
When playing on a table with drop pockets, I often see players picking balls out of a pocket so that the ball they are shooting won’t bounce out of the pocket and back onto the playing surface. So I thought why not use this same move to help me from scratching. I’ve either left balls in a full pocket or moved balls to fill up a pocket to prevent me from scratching. I’ve only done this on the $$$$ ball and not on many shots. Actually only used this move a couple of times.
Now I know this may be a sneaky, poor sportsmanship move and I have only done it a few times when playing a person that I don’t really like; but with that stated, is it against the rules, foul, etc?
Again, does anyone have any knowledge of rules on this?
 
OverCutAnything said:
Rule question. I understand that there are different rules for different tournaments, league etc; but I have yet to find an answer to the following situation under any of them. (Maybe I missed it)
Any help/suggestions/opinions would be nice to read. Thanks.
I have used this move in 8, 9 & 10 ball and I can see it being used in other games also
.
When playing on a table with drop pockets, I often see players picking balls out of a pocket so that the ball they are shooting won’t bounce out of the pocket and back onto the playing surface. So I thought why not use this same move to help me from scratching. I’ve either left balls in a full pocket or moved balls to fill up a pocket to prevent me from scratching. I’ve only done this on the $$$$ ball and not on many shots. Actually only used this move a couple of times.
Now I know this may be a sneaky, poor sportsmanship move and I have only done it a few times when playing a person that I don’t really like; but with that stated, is it against the rules, foul, etc?
Again, does anyone have any knowledge of rules on this?
Click to expand...


When the guy breaks your face, will it matter what the rulebook says? As a rule, you should try to live life with as little friction as possible. Eventually, stuff like this will only catch-up with you. Yes, you can't use equipment this way. Yes, you can't move balls from pocket to pocket without your opponent's permission. Yes, it's just wrong and you don't need a rule saying it's wrong.
 
Wow. You dont need to be a jerk about it. It was a simple question. And for you to state such things without knowing me is wrong. I play by the rules and those that know me would tell you im one of the most honest guys around. Yea.. I used it a few times agains people that dont know what a double hit is and some other things... & i should have stated that i dont believe it is "right" but if it is not a foul then why not. Again please show me a rule. That was the question. Additionally, when i used it the opponent thought it was kind of a smart move. And it comes as no surprise that someone from brooklyn would want to smash a face over a game. How sad
 
If you got away with this in a game, you took advantage of an ignorant opponent. I agree with Jude...you cannot deliberately fill up a pocket with the intent of avoiding a scratch.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
OverCutAnything said:
Wow. You dont need to be a jerk about it. It was a simple question. And for you to state such things without knowing me is wrong. I play by the rules and those that know me would tell you im one of the most honest guys around. Yea.. I used it a few times agains people that dont know what a double hit is and some other things... & i should have stated that i dont believe it is "right" but if it is not a foul then why not. Again please show me a rule. That was the question. Additionally, when i used it the opponent thought it was kind of a smart move. And it comes as no surprise that someone from brooklyn would want to smash a face over a game. How sad
Click to expand...

Then you won't mind paying up when you're told that you lost.
 
OverCutAnything said:
Rule question. I understand that there are different rules for different tournaments, league etc; but I have yet to find an answer to the following situation under any of them. (Maybe I missed it)
Any help/suggestions/opinions would be nice to read. Thanks.
I have used this move in 8, 9 & 10 ball and I can see it being used in other games also
.
When playing on a table with drop pockets, I often see players picking balls out of a pocket so that the ball they are shooting won’t bounce out of the pocket and back onto the playing surface. So I thought why not use this same move to help me from scratching. I’ve either left balls in a full pocket or moved balls to fill up a pocket to prevent me from scratching. I’ve only done this on the $$$$ ball and not on many shots. Actually only used this move a couple of times.
Now I know this may be a sneaky, poor sportsmanship move and I have only done it a few times when playing a person that I don’t really like; but with that stated, is it against the rules, foul, etc?
Again, does anyone have any knowledge of rules on this?
Click to expand...

If the cueball hits a filled pocket, it counts as a scratch. Although I don't think I have ever seen either happen in a real game. And I've sure as hell have never see anyone moving balls to fill a pocket on purpose before. Only time I have seen this is when someone is practacing and did not bother to clear the pocket, usually it's very young kids or total newbies to pool.

I don't know if this specific example is in a rule book, I know that if an object ball happens to hit a ball and bounce out it does not count as pocketed, but we have to think of what judgement a ref would use if this was done during a real match like in the US Open. I am 99% sure that a ref could call a scratch in this case, and if you moved balls around to fill a pocket you'd get a warning at least for conduct.
 
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OverCutAnything said:
Wow. You dont need to be a jerk about it. It was a simple question. And for you to state such things without knowing me is wrong. I play by the rules and those that know me would tell you im one of the most honest guys around. Yea.. I used it a few times agains people that dont know what a double hit is and some other things... & i should have stated that i dont believe it is "right" but if it is not a foul then why not. Again please show me a rule. That was the question. Additionally, when i used it the opponent thought it was kind of a smart move. And it comes as no surprise that someone from brooklyn would want to smash a face over a game. How sad
Click to expand...

Okay, let's be clear. I have zero interest in smashing your face although I'm now curious as to what my place of residence has to do with that. My post was simply about *avoiding* getting punched. When you're gambling, I think it's important to be honorable because your opponent doesn't have a referee to go to. This is obviously cheating and you don't need to see if there's a rule supporting the claim. This isn't a rule inquiry like, "Can I shoot at a ball on the line or does it have to be over the line?" This is blatant-obvious-can't-see-it-any-other-way cheating where if you get called out for it, you're liable to incite your opponent faster than a midnight Lexington Avenue Express.

Like I said, I think it's important to try and avoid friction as much as possible in life. You can think what you want with that.
 
OverCutAnything said:
- snip - I play by the rules and those that know me would tell you im one of the most honest guys around. Yea.. I used it a few times agains people that dont know what a double hit is and some other things... & i should have stated that i dont believe it is "right" but if it is not a foul then why not. - snip -
Click to expand...

So you are saying it's OK to cheat the rules as long as people don't know you are doing it?

The thing to do in this case is to explain why it's a foul, and clean up the cueball as you are handing it over to them.

Similar to the many times I called a "push" in a game against newer players and they assumed I just fouled and grabbed the cueball. I just told them, that is a push, explained the rule and put the cueball where it was before they picked it up and told them to shoot or pass it. And yes, I've done that in tournaments where was some money on the line, not that it really mattered as a person who does not now what a push out is probably has little chance of beating me/you.
 
Again, it was a rule question & not opinions. Was not looking for opinions or arguments, just if anyone can show a rule either way. Its just a strange sceniaro that thought would make people think.... I see it has.
Again, just looking for specific written rule.
 
Stacking balls in a pocket to avoid a scratch is a violation of Rule 1.3 Player's Use of Equipment, resulting in Unsportsmanlike Conduct (...use in any way other than intended purpose...)

If you did it in any organized tournament you'd be laughed out of the room.

If you did it in a gambling match (in Brooklyn or anywhere else) you'd regret it.

I guess you can do it with your friends since they don't seem to mind. Although I think a more certain way would be to jam 5 or 6 house cues into the pocket butt-first, then fill any remaining spaces with house cues placed in shaft-first.
 
bdorman said:
Stacking balls in a pocket to avoid a scratch is a violation of Rule 1.3 Player's Use of Equipment, resulting in Unsportsmanlike Conduct (...use in any way other than intended purpose...)

If you did it in any organized tournament you'd be laughed out of the room.

If you did it in a gambling match (in Brooklyn or anywhere else) you'd regret it.

I guess you can do it with your friends since they don't seem to mind. Although I think a more certain way would be to jam 5 or 6 house cues into the pocket butt-first, then fill any remaining spaces with house cues placed in shaft-first.
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What he said.

It's unsportsmanlike, plain and simple.
 
It was bound to happen..

Somebody found ChrisBank's booklet of unasked questions and scenarios. :speechless:
 
Brorman... Thanks for showing the rule. But come on guys... The unnecessary comments are uncalled for. Those statements are a big reason why this game we love isn't main stream.
Again thanks for the rule!
BTW - so if you leave a poket that is already filled then by rule it's ok??? Just not to fill it.
So by rule there's nothing that states you can or cannot empty a filled pocket?

Clarification - i know the spirit of the rules & duhhh... I'd never do in a tourney & yes only playing people i know locally it was done.

It was just a strange thing that came up playing and thought it was interesting for an actual official rule question. B/c we asked around and got no answer so i thought id post here.
Thx again
 
bdorman said:
Stacking balls in a pocket to avoid a scratch is a violation of Rule 1.3 Player's Use of Equipment, resulting in Unsportsmanlike Conduct (...use in any way other than intended purpose...)

If you did it in any organized tournament you'd be laughed out of the room.

If you did it in a gambling match (in Brooklyn or anywhere else) you'd regret it.

I guess you can do it with your friends since they don't seem to mind. Although I think a more certain way would be to jam 5 or 6 house cues into the pocket butt-first, then fill any remaining spaces with house cues placed in shaft-first.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sticking-up for Brooklyn. For the record, my perfect record for never getting into a physical altercation over a pool match remains intact in spite of the bar brawl I narrowly escaped from last month.
 
OverCutAnything said:
Brorman... Thanks for showing the rule. But come on guys... The unnecessary comments are uncalled for. Those statements are a big reason why this game we love isn't main stream.
Again thanks for the rule!
BTW - so if you leave a poket that is already filled then by rule it's ok??? Just not to fill it.
So by rule there's nothing that states you can or cannot empty a filled pocket?

Clarification - i know the spirit of the rules & duhhh... I'd never do in a tourney & yes only playing people i know locally it was done.

It was just a strange thing that came up playing and thought it was interesting for an actual official rule question. B/c we asked around and got no answer so i thought id post here.
Thx again
Click to expand...

Seriously? You actually said/typed that? On purpose?

The statements are the problem, but not some jackass move of trying to stack balls in a pocket to prevent a scratch? Surrre.. it's all the game's fault and the people that make your feelings hurt when you do shady stuff.

You play 8, 9 and 10, but don't know how to look up rules? Also.. this gem of a statement: "I’ve only done this on the $$$$ ball and not on many shots." I'm with Jude.. I can't believe somebody hasn't just beat some sense into you.
 
OverCutAnything said:
Again, it was a rule question & not opinions. Was not looking for opinions or arguments, just if anyone can show a rule either way. Its just a strange sceniaro that thought would make people think.... I see it has.
Again, just looking for specific written rule.
Click to expand...

Look if you come on a message board basically trying to get the go ahead to cheat, then people are going to give you crap.
 
m79a said:
Look if you come on a message board basically trying to get the go ahead to cheat, then people are going to give you crap.
Click to expand...

What's the problem? After all, he says himself that he only does it on the money ball.. :rolleyes:

I think he's full of it.
 
Try this one...

8.5 Driven off the Table
A ball is considered driven off the table if it comes to rest other than on the playing surface but is not pocketed. A ball is also considered driven off the table if it would have been driven off the table except for striking an object such as a light fixture, piece of chalk or a player which causes it to return to the table.
A ball that contacts the top of the rail is not considered to have been driven off the table if it returns to the playing surface or enters a pocket.

Pay attention to the second paragraph. I believe the cue ball would have been considered 'driven off the table' by falling into the pocket (had you not filled it with balls). Since the cue ball did make contact with another object...one of the balls you stuffed into the pocket...it would be called 'driven off the table' by means of hitting another object that was already 'off the table'. There is a rule for you to use.

I must say that I argee with everyone else on this thread...to even think of something as low as this tells huge amounts about your personality and integrity.

Wanna play...no thanks!!!

L8R...Ken
 
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