American Rotation race to 100 via Accu Stats

Joe T

New member
Jason Shaw vs Phil Burford race to 100 points.

Thanks to everyone involved in putting on this demonstration.

Didn't get to see much of the miss and shoot again stuff here, these guys played jam up on the 10ftr. And Phil, shots around the 38 & 44 min mark, lil sick bud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU5Lpgbmll4
 
It looks a more aggressive game that I had anticipated.
Burford can play :smile: I would like to see him in a TAR match. Reminds me a little of Feijen.
 
Was fun to watch and seems like a good game. I think I like the ball in hand after break rule, really makes it about the game and position/pocketing skills. I also like how easy it is to handicap the game if 2 people of unequal skills are playing.

I almost think the scoring would be easier at home than in that streaming environment. The commentators and score keepers were hardly in sync and it was almost funny watching the score keeper adjusting the on screen score up and down.

Also, the alternating break rule needs to be explained a bit better in my opinion. The commentator kept talking about how important it was to make the last few balls on the table so that the person could get the break ... which isn't the case.

For any new game it will take a bit to get everyone used to the rules and scoring, so that is all understandable. I wish you the best of luck in this new venture and think it has a good chance to catch on.
 
It looks a more aggressive game that I had anticipated...

I think that, since it was an exhibition, they were more offensive minded than they normally would be. There were some "wow" shots and some "wow" positional shots that may not have been attempted in an actual competitive match due to their being "low percentage".

Of course when they do pull off shots like those, we all get to see an incredible feat and be in awe of it, so I'm glad I watched it.

Fatz
 
This is an interesting game, but pros make it look too easy.

Almost too easy for my liking in that match but I still look forwar to some top players trading runouts. As reflag say a lil free wheeling. Once we learn the price of our mistakes as we already know in other games the pressure will take hold throughout the entire match.
 
It looks a more aggressive game that I had anticipated.
Burford can play :smile: I would like to see him in a TAR match. Reminds me a little of Feijen.

It will be a little tighter game on a 9ft or especially a 7ft, more clusters but that doesn't mean, safety after safety because what happens is the safeties are usually so tight that a lot of ball in hands are rewarded which in turn speeds it up.
You can watch the Max Eberle Ronnie Alcano match here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFisdhw3dpg that was played on a very tight 9 ft table, good match even though nobody on site was familiar with the game at all, they did a good job to pull it off.
 
Hey Joe (where you goin' with that gun in your hand?)...

But seriously, why is the first break different than the rest? Why not just let the winner of the lag break the first rack and start with ball in hand just like all the subsequent racks? Seems like if you are playing alternating breaks, that should take care of any concerns. Seems like my way would make it easier to learn and thus easier to become accepted by the general masses.

thanks
Fatz
 
Cool; thanks for posting. Kind of funny you have two guys from UK demonstrating american rotation, lol
 
Hey Joe (where you goin' with that gun in your hand?)...

But seriously, why is the first break different than the rest? Why not just let the winner of the lag break the first rack and start with ball in hand just like all the subsequent racks? Seems like if you are playing alternating breaks, that should take care of any concerns. Seems like my way would make it easier to learn and thus easier to become accepted by the general masses.

thanks
Fatz

I think you may be right and in more ways than just those you mentioned. I have been thinking about it and in general the player that makes the last ball of the first rack usually has the lead and THEN letting them start the BBIH process adds to it. Originally I had wanted to give the person who didn't make the last ball the break but then had images of nobody wanting to pocket the last ball, lol.

I think alternating the BBIH from the get go might be th eright way to go. The league is starting between today and July 15th so I won't be making any rule changes for this first 7 week season but I will strongly consider it and ask others what they think over the next 8 weeks. Maybe we can play our finals like that and everyone will be on track for season 2? Thanks for the advice.
 
I think you may be right and in more ways than just those you mentioned. I have been thinking about it and in general the player that makes the last ball of the first rack usually has the lead and THEN letting them start the BBIH process adds to it. Originally I had wanted to give the person who didn't make the last ball the break but then had images of nobody wanting to pocket the last ball, lol.

I think alternating the BBIH from the get go might be th eright way to go. The league is starting between today and July 15th so I won't be making any rule changes for this first 7 week season but I will strongly consider it and ask others what they think over the next 8 weeks. Maybe we can play our finals like that and everyone will be on track for season 2? Thanks for the advice.

:thumbup2:

OK Joe, here's another suggestion. It's probably too major and you probably wouldn't want to do this. But if you are going to change anything this major, now (meaning this early) is the time to consider it (for season two anyway)...

You are still going through the rack in numerical order, BUT make the solids worth 3 points, the 8-ball worth 2 points and the stripes worth 1 point. This is a total of 30 points per rack. I suggest this because...

1. The earlier balls should be worth more - in my opinion - because it is harder to get shape around the table (I realize that something similar has been suggested before).

2. Each group of balls has it's own unique "scoring component". That's just the OCD in me, but it makes sense and it makes it feel less arbitrary.

30 points per rack is a nice, round number and multiple of ten, and easy to work with, so I hope that makes it attractive. Pros and other high skill level players could play matches to 300. Or a shorter game to 150 could be played for other situations.

Just a thought.

Fatz (wannabe game designer - see my sig below )
 
Last edited:
This game will be a success. Thanks for the demo.

One thing though, it might have more international appeal if it was called Canadian rotation. I have noticed that Canada and Candians are very popular on this AZ site since BB came out and one could leverage on that popularity.
 
:thumbup2:

OK Joe, here's another suggestion. It's probably too major and you probably wouldn't want to do this. But if you are going to change anything this major, now (meaning this early) is the time to consider it (for season two anyway)...

You are still going through the rack in numerical order, BUT make the solids worth 3 points, the 8-ball worth 2 points and the stripes worth 1 point. This is a total of 30 points per rack. I suggest this because...

1. The earlier balls should be worth more - in my opinion - because it is harder to get shape around the table (I realize that something similar has been suggested before).

2. Each group of balls has it's own unique "scoring component". That's just the OCD in me, but it makes sense and it makes it feel less arbitrary.

30 points per rack is a nice, round number and multiple of ten, and easy to work with, so I hope that makes it attractive. Pros and other high skill level players could play matches to 300. Or a shorter game to 150 could be played for other situations.

Just a thought.

Fatz (wannabe game designer - see my sig below )

Not bad, not bad, the 9 10 are stripes worth 1 and some times cause confusion? I like the end balls being worth more, adds to the drama plus ball in hand at the beginning give easy acces to at least a few early balls. Will consider the 3,2,1 option for 30 though.
 
More Suggestions

Hey Joe,

I just read the American Rotation rules in their entirety. I have a couple more suggestions. Basically these are suggestions just to make the game easier to learn. They would change rules that don't really seem to be necessary. The easier the game is to learn, implement, and enforce, the better it will catch hold. It would also be an advantage if the commentators didn't have to struggle with it. It'll keep the viewer's interest better that way. And I don't think any of the suggestions I'm about to make change any important strategies or nuances as you intended them to exist.

So take these suggestions as constructive. I like the game and I like the idea of the new ABC League and I hope they both succeed.

1. If you scratch on the break, the other player gets the points and gets the table and gets ball in hand. (Did I miss something? Were the players in the 100 point match playing by the same rules that I just read on your website?) It just will seem very foreign to people to scratch on the break and get to keep shooting. And scratching on the break is still showing a lack of skill or lack of control (for that moment anyway). So why shouldn't the offender be "punished"?

2. Same idea with jumping balls off the table when breaking. It's a foul any other time. Why make exceptions for this? Leave the ball or balls down, the other player gets the points, and the other player comes to the table with ball in hand.

3. After missing a called shot with an inadvertent ball being pocketed or a called safety with a ball being pocketed: I think I like that the incoming player has choice (I wouldn't suggest you change it even if I didn't like it - that's a major thing and is "designer's prerogative"). BUT I think the "non-offending player" should get the points regardless of whether or not he chooses to give the shot back to the "offending player". The reason I suggest this...

What if the offending player is on 149 points and the position is lock-up? The "non-offending" player has to take the shot or he gives the game to the player on 149. But by being forced to take the shot that is lock-up, the wrong person is getting punished for the "error".

The first three, I suggest strongly. They make the rules cleaner - more consistent in implementation throughout the contest, and therefore easier to absorb for people playing the game. And again, I don't think they change any important strategies or nuances as you intended them to exist.

The next suggestion I feel less strongly about, but the existing three-foul rule does repeat the element of being inconsistent with the way the rest of pool games are played, therefore making it harder to learn, implement, and enforce.

4. If a player commits three consecutive fouls, subtract x points from his score. Re-rack the balls with the non-offending player having the break (regardless of previous alternating break sequence) with the usual ball in hand after the break. The alternating break sequence would begin anew with the offending player getting the subsequent break.

I don't dislike the rule. I think it is a kinda interesting way to solve the problem of a locked up table. But it is an anomaly in pool, so if you do leave the three-foul rule as it is, it needs to be explained more clearly than in either of the two matches I've seen on You Tube so far. Their saying "it's just like the free shot in snooker" didn't help. How many people who play pool in this country also play snooker? I wouldn't know what that meant.

I think people need to have it explained VERY CLEARLY that the *free shot* consists of being allowed to shoot ANY ball, that a ball does NOT have to be pocketed to continue, and that it is THEN FOLLOWED by ball in hand for the same player.

Actually, the more I think about it, I feel kinda strongly about this rule too. It's just really inconsistent with normal pool rules.

That's all
thanks
Fatz
 
Back
Top