American Rotation race to 100 via Accu Stats

The game is a bugle call for good players

This game will be a success. Thanks for the demo.

One thing though, it might have more international appeal if it was called Canadian rotation. I have noticed that Canada and Candians are very popular on this AZ site since BB came out and one could leverage on that popularity.

Not bad, not bad, the 9 10 are stripes worth 1 and some times cause confusion? I like the end balls being worth more, adds to the drama plus ball in hand at the beginning give easy acces to at least a few early balls. Will consider the 3,2,1 option for 30 though.

I always loved rotation. Once players ( B speed and better), begin to recognize the talent requirement needed to play, more will rise to the challenge.

The English have Snooker, and Asians like Rotation. Why shouldn't North Americans have Bonus Ball and American Rotation ?? :)
 
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Not bad, not bad, the 9 10 are stripes worth 1 and some times cause confusion?

Not really confusing, no.

plus ball in hand at the beginning give easy acces to at least a few early balls.

A few, yes, but it starts getting tougher after three or four balls (depending on the layout anyway) and that should be rewarded. I look at the automatic ball in hand part as a simple necessity, that's all. If you are going to play to 150, you're going to be there all day without starting this way.

I like the end balls being worth more, adds to the drama

I'll disagree with the drama part. When you get down to 5 balls and the table is wide open by that point, then I kinda feel like it's routine - worse - like it's paying too much for being routine. So that's not drama to me. That's more like it's indignant.

Compare it to 9-ball. the table is wide open, you have four balls left. You would think that it would get more dramatic as you get closer to the 9-ball right? Not really. If the last four balls is a routine run-out, then it's not really very dramatic at all (UNLESS if and when someone misses a run out they should have had, but that's a different issue).

I do realize this suggestion is a pretty major change, so take it for what it's worth. All my other suggestions are minor and just meant to clean up the rules and make it easier to learn, watch, commentate, and enforce. This was a big one because I felt the earlier balls should be worth more. Then I thought if I'm going to suggest that, what should the point values actually be? What would be clean math and easy to remember? So the stripes/solids 3/2/1 just came from that.

Like I said, it might not be worth your while to make such a major change, but I just wanted to put it out there.

thanks
Fatz
 
On the Other Hand...

Just had another thought from the opposite point of view. In "Asian Rotation" the earlier balls are worth less. But making them does allow you to continue. So maybe it's not as "wrong" as I thought it was.

Fatz
 
Just had another thought from the opposite point of view. In "Asian Rotation" the earlier balls are worth less. But making them does allow you to continue. So maybe it's not as "wrong" as I thought it was.

Fatz

Thanks for all the thought and tips, I do listen and am not too? stubborn. Soon as you feel the pain of missing the 9, 10 or 11 ball you'll feel the drama. I had tried it all points being the same which would be th easiest scoring but the 2 for the last 5 feels better.
I know when the wife and I play 35-100 I DO NOT LIKE missing the 11, lol
 
[/QUOTE]
.

So take these suggestions as constructive. I like the game and I like the idea of the new ABC League and I hope they both succeed.

1. If you scratch on the break, the other player gets the points and gets the table and gets ball in hand. (Did I miss something?
Scratch on the break doesn't give the table away, just points to opponent for balls pocketed.


PHP:
Were the players in the 100 point match playing by the same rules that I just read on your website?) It just will seem very foreign to people to scratch on the break and get to keep shooting.
Same rules, definitely foreign

PHP:
And scratching on the break is still showing a lack of skill or lack of control (for that moment anyway). So why shouldn't the offender be "punished"?
Not lack of skill all the time, quite often just dumb luck.

PHP:
2. Same idea with jumping balls off the table when breaking. It's a foul any other time. Why make exceptions for this? Leave the ball or balls down, the other player gets the points, and the other player comes to the table with ball in hand.
I think ob off the table on the break is a dumb rule but I do like your idea of ball staying down and opponent gets it.

PHP:
3. After missing a called shot with an inadvertent ball being pocketed or a called safety with a ball being pocketed: I think I like that the incoming player has choice (I wouldn't suggest you change it even if I didn't like it - that's a major thing and is "designer's prerogative"). BUT I think the "non-offending player" should get the points regardless of whether or not he chooses to give the shot back to the "offending player". The reason I suggest this...
Don't really like actually punishing the player cuz they lucked a ball in.

PHP:
What if the offending player is on 149 points and the position is lock-up? The "non-offending" player has to take the shot or he gives the game to the player on 149. But by being forced to take the shot that is lock-up, the wrong person is getting punished for the "error".
Could happen but could happen the other way too, player lucks in a ball and puts his opponent out.

PHP:
The first three, I suggest strongly. They make the rules cleaner - more consistent in implementation throughout the contest, and therefore easier to absorb for people playing the game. And again, I don't think they change any important strategies or nuances as you intended them to exist.

The next suggestion I feel less strongly about, but the existing three-foul rule does repeat the element of being inconsistent with the way the rest of pool games are played, therefore making it harder to learn, implement, and enforce.

4. If a player commits three consecutive fouls, subtract x points from his score. Re-rack the balls with the non-offending player having the break (regardless of previous alternating break sequence) with the usual ball in hand after the break. The alternating break sequence would begin anew with the offending player getting the subsequent break.
No like, think players would go for 3 fouls more often and while it is different we're only trying to teach 8 players at a time for now.



PHP:
I think people need to have it explained VERY CLEARLY that the *free shot* consists of being allowed to shoot ANY ball, that a ball does NOT have to be pocketed to continue, and that it is THEN FOLLOWED by ball in hand for the same player.
Yes is does need to be explained clearly

Actually, the more I think about it, I feel kinda strongly about this rule too. It's just really inconsistent with normal pool rules.

That's all
thanks
Fatz

Thanks Fatz
 
IDK what happened there and it won't let me edit! Improper quoting technique by Joe Tucker, Ball in hand!
 
Phil breaks and scratches then gets back to the table with ball in hand??? :confused:

Yup, that shocks everyone. I'm not going to give the other player ball in hand cuz that penalty is just too big and I understand that's the way it's been and the shock factor. am considering making it a -5 point penaly though. I know we all GASP with the scratch on the break but quite often its dumb luck.

I had one once hill hill at Turning Stone with Thurston to be in final 4 undefeated, read the rack, 9 on th eleft was looking good but corner ball on right was to and I was playing good so I said just play the corner ball and if the 9 goes so be it. Break perfect from the box, cb to rail slowly and to center table, corner ball in, ohh crowd goes wild 9 ball in!!! Then ohhhhs goes to noooo's ball cuts the cb and it trickles back down straight into my face at 1 mph :) Had to share that one but that's not the reason I chose to go this way, it just makes sense to me even though that's not the way it's been,

ps I believe Thurston won the tournament from there, not sure though?
 
IDK what happened there and it won't let me edit! Improper quoting technique by Joe Tucker, Ball in hand!

Yeah, that was weird.


With regard to scratching on the break...
Not lack of skill all the time, quite often just dumb luck.

Good point. I realized that later.

I think ob off the table on the break is a dumb rule but I do like your idea of ball staying down and opponent gets it.

Cool.

3. After missing a called shot with an inadvertent ball being pocketed or a called safety with a ball being pocketed: I think I like that the incoming player has choice (I wouldn't suggest you change it even if I didn't like it - that's a major thing and is "designer's prerogative"). BUT I think the "non-offending player" should get the points regardless of whether or not he chooses to give the shot back to the "offending player". The reason I suggest this...

What if the offending player is on 149 points and the position is lock-up? The "non-offending" player has to take the shot or he gives the game to the player on 149. But by being forced to take the shot that is lock-up, the wrong person is getting punished for the "error".

Don't really like actually punishing the player cuz they lucked a ball in.

Could happen but could happen the other way too, player lucks in a ball and puts his opponent out.

Yes, but then the right person is getting "punished", right?

Maybe this situation calls for the ball being spotted and no points awarded to either side.

Anyway, Joe, cool game. Don't let my fiddly little rules tweaks annoy you. Thanks for reading and considering the suggestions. Use them as you may.

Fatz
 
So how does the free shot work?

Let's see if I have it right. Offending player commits third foul. Then the other player...

1. Comes to the table with ball in hand.
2. May shoot ANY ball on the table.
3. Regardless of whether a ball was made or not, he then takes ball in hand again.
4. He shoots again (or calls safe), this time contacting the lowest numbered ball.
5. At this point the game continues as usual.

Is this right?

Is the player allowed to carry over the free shot to a later shot or a later inning? I'm supposing the answer is "no". But when you say "free shot", people will easily assume this means you keep it in your back pocket until you miss, then you get to shoot again.

EDIT: Assuming I am understanding this correctly, I would not call this reward a "free shot". I would give it a name that does not have the built in connotation that it can carry forward. You could say, "the incoming player is awarded a "penalty shot" which is to be used in the turn immediately after the third foul", then go on to describe how the penalty shot works, then go on to say that the player continues the game as normal from there with ball in hand again, then go on to say that ends the penalty shot sequence.

Fatz
 
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Let's see if I have it right. Offending player commits third foul. Then the other player...

1. Comes to the table with ball in hand.
2. May shoot ANY ball on the table.
3. Regardless of whether a ball was made or not, he then takes ball in hand again.
4. He shoots again (or calls safe), this time contacting the lowest numbered ball.
5. At this point the game continues as usual.

Is this right?

Is the player allowed to carry over the free shot to a later shot or a later inning? I'm supposing the answer is "no". But when you say "free shot", people will easily assume this means you keep it in your back pocket until you miss, then you get to shoot again.

EDIT: Assuming I am understanding this correctly, I would not call this reward a "free shot". I would give it a name that does not have the built in connotation that it can carry forward. You could say, "the incoming player is awarded a "penalty shot" which is to be used in the turn immediately after the third foul", then go on to describe how the penalty shot works, then go on to say that the player continues the game as normal from there with ball in hand again, then go on to say that ends the penalty shot sequence.

Fatz

Penalty shot is a goood way to phrase it. I will add that. And yes you are correct, you cannot carry it over. Player is rewarde with a penalty shot, then play continues as normal with ball in hand immediately after the penalty shot.

For your above post, not annoying at all, helpful and I appreciate it. Lil bad timing for me as I'm all over the place right now but not annoying, thanks.
 
For your above post, not annoying at all, helpful and I appreciate it. Lil bad timing for me as I'm all over the place right now but not annoying, thanks.

thanks Joe. I can just imagine you driving all over the country recruiting pool halls, driving and talking, talking and driving. I'm guessing your participating list of pool rooms would end up being a great list of the best rooms in the country to visit on a road trip.

And I just wanted to make sure you saw this...

As for after missing a called shot with an inadvertent ball being pocketed or a called safety with a ball being pocketed, the incoming player has choice to take the table.

You might consider spotting the ball and awarding no points to either player.

Fatz
 
thanks Joe. I can just imagine you driving all over the country recruiting pool halls, driving and talking, talking and driving. I'm guessing your participating list of pool rooms would end up being a great list of the best rooms in the country to visit on a road trip.

And I just wanted to make sure you saw this...

As for after missing a called shot with an inadvertent ball being pocketed or a called safety with a ball being pocketed, the incoming player has choice to take the table.

You might consider spotting the ball and awarding no points to either player.

Fatz

The rooms are great, I am still mad I didn't have more time to spend around each one. I had 1-8hrs at most of them and 2-3 days would have been awesome.

Don't really like the spotting option because right now the game works real good on bar tables.
 
Was fun to watch and seems like a good game. I think I like the ball in hand after break rule, really makes it about the game and position/pocketing skills. I also like how easy it is to handicap the game if 2 people of unequal skills are playing.

I almost think the scoring would be easier at home than in that streaming environment. The commentators and score keepers were hardly in sync and it was almost funny watching the score keeper adjusting the on screen score up and down.

Also, the alternating break rule needs to be explained a bit better in my opinion. The commentator kept talking about how important it was to make the last few balls on the table so that the person could get the break ... which isn't the case.

For any new game it will take a bit to get everyone used to the rules and scoring, so that is all understandable. I wish you the best of luck in this new venture and think it has a good chance to catch on.

I will own up to the blue part... It was a little difficult scoring it for me but the good news is that there is an app for that!!!! With running the scoring and trying to come up with instant replays and getting them ready there were several times where I scored the 10 as a 2 pointer... Sorry bout that Joe......

Scoring I would likely change... 1 point for all of the solids since you have ball in hand... 2 pts for the 9-14 and 5points for the 15 that way you have 8 pts of solids 12pts of stripes and 5 points for the highest number ball in the rotation that way you still have the rotation feel of a money ball and people will look for combos and caroms on it often.... With 25points someone will have WON every rack which I like since right now you can split a rack 10 to 10.......

Gonna try playing it tomorrow if I make it to the pool room... Just wish there was going to be a room closer than Chattanooga or Bristol that was involved in the league....

Chris
 
The rooms are great, I am still mad I didn't have more time to spend around each one. I had 1-8hrs at most of them and 2-3 days would have been awesome.

Don't really like the spotting option because right now the game works real good on bar tables.

Got it. The game works good on bar tables?! That surprises me. It seems it would be so congested. I'll have to try that some time. thanks Joe

Fatz
 
I will own up to the blue part... It was a little difficult scoring it for me but the good news is that there is an app for that!!!! With running the scoring and trying to come up with instant replays and getting them ready there were several times where I scored the 10 as a 2 pointer... Sorry bout that Joe......

Scoring I would likely change... 1 point for all of the solids since you have ball in hand... 2 pts for the 9-14 and 5points for the 15 that way you have 8 pts of solids 12pts of stripes and 5 points for the highest number ball in the rotation that way you still have the rotation feel of a money ball and people will look for combos and caroms on it often.... With 25points someone will have WON every rack which I like since right now you can split a rack 10 to 10.......

Gonna try playing it tomorrow if I make it to the pool room... Just wish there was going to be a room closer than Chattanooga or Bristol that was involved in the league....

Chris
Not gonna lie, kind of liking that 1pt solids 2pts stripes and 5pts for the 15. That way I could look at the table and numbers almost don't matter, it would be more like leaving the table during straight pool.
GREAT WORK CHRIS!! DAMMIT, Just in time for our APPS RELEASE, lol

https://play.google.com/store/apps/...vbHZlLmFtZXJpY2Fucm90YXRpb25zY29yZWtlZXBlciJd
 
DAMMIT ME??? I just went to get the app and it won't work on my "ye olden Blackberry" LOL

Guess maybe I'll have to get a Droid :yikes:

Maybe the new scoring will be in use by the time I can talk myself into letting the blackberry go :D

Chris
 
Watching the match at 15:00. Jason breaks up a cluster. I'm trying to figure out if he did it on purpose. He could see the cue ball would glance off the eight and go forward more or less, and he did use high. If he directed it right at the cluster like that though, mighty impressive. Opinions?

Fatz
 
Great game

I really like this game! As well as it being a fun game in it's own right, I can see how it would improve your straight pool and 8/9/10 ball game, as it is all about playing precision position.
Thank you Joe, I hope your new league is a success.
 
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