Pulling up in the middle of a set when score is tied

To refer to Rob as a "hustler" carrying some sort of negative connotation is rather disingenuous, I think. Or profoundly so.

I will say that the V-A-S-T majority of members here on az have, were at some point, are, or want to be, hustlers, themselves. Say what you want but it's true.

To point a finger at him like you're outing some bad guy, a hustler, a con man...try to remain mindful of this:

The man let a champion who made a bad game off the hook for real cheap.

Most guys I know would have taken the g-note, told Dennis to kiss their ass, and they would have been right.

best,
brian kc
 
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Come on someone, show a cartoon showing Dennis with the balloon over his head saying, I'm the best money player in the world and have robbed almost everyone, but this guy took advantage of me, and since I'm the best, I want my money back!!!
 
Guess I am the only one stuck on this. Isn't Dennis 34ish with more money playing experience than most people will ever have?

jay helfert said:
Dennis is a great guy and a terrific player and gambler, but he's still young and may make a mistake once in a while. So please cut him some slack. Thanks
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I don't think Robs example has "sprung a leak". The point is orcullo has no problem getting paid when he is in a game stealing. In a game where his opponent has the nuts he's pulling moves like what he did to Rob.
 
uwate said:
I don't think Robs example has "sprung a leak". The point is orcullo has no problem getting paid when he is in a game stealing. In a game where his opponent has the nuts he's pulling moves like what he did to Rob.
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I think that there is a difference. Willingly donating to pro players is a lot different than pro players making lock games.

The example of Chris dumping off 200 to hang out with Dennis for a while is not relevant and not needed in this thread.

That said let's chalk all this up to a brain fart. Who among us has NEVER been on tilt and made a bad move.

seriously Dennis has provided us with mountains of pool playing excellence. The guy came from abject poverty to become one of the world's top players. Every person should get a few brain farts in their life without being crucified. Trust me with his fellow pros there to witness it Dennis will have to live with it for a long time.

Lastly, chill out on Jay. Jay is one of pool's remaing bright stars. Let him be biased towards his friends. He said Dennis was flat out wrong but the more he is pressed the more defensive he will be.

I am SURE that Dennis has learned the lesson even if he won't come out and say it. So now that just about every angle has been discussed let it sit in the books as a warning to all those who play pool for money to take your licks and move on.
 
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uwate said:
I don't think Robs example has "sprung a leak". The point is orcullo has no problem getting paid when he is in a game stealing. In a game where his opponent has the nuts he's pulling moves like what he did to Rob.
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The point I was addressing uwate, maybe I didn't address it well, was - Does DO pull a move on occasion or is this an isolated example with extenuating (excuses) circumstances?

Because the "Chris" example, per your trusted accounting of it IMO, wasn't a move at all.

It's @ universally apparent DO screwed the pooch with Rob, whom Kickin' rightfully pointed out let DO off the hook on scene (but not so much after, lol).
 
Well SVB took him off for 1k earlier tonight and got paid. I wonder if Jay staked that game?

Whatever the case it is hard to believe Jay could find any legitimate excuse in this situation. I stayed out of this thread for a couple days and then started reading it earlier and have to admit was a bit shocked. Jay knows better.

Here is the only thing I can think of. Dennis was going off in the casino and busted. Maybe borrowed money from people who the hell knows. Perhaps he was so desperate to make money that he stooped to this ultimate desperate move. This is the downside of pool at casinos. It sounds like he was well on the "plus" side of things as far as pool playing was concerned. Now this may be an assumption but I thought I read somewhere that he was going off at casino. :confused:
 
CreeDo said:
Not much of a gambler but my understanding has always been, if you quit before the set is done,
that's a forfeit. Even if you're on the hill and the other guy has zero.

The other guy can usually be convinced to let it slide if it's an emergency, but not liking the game
or being bored or deciding you have other priorities... no way.
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Yup, the way it should be :thumbup2:
 
Bigtruck said:
Here is a 15min clip of the how it unfolded live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykM-2QLqCwQ&feature=youtu.be

When I posted this it said it would be finished loading about 6:30am cst.

Ray
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Thanks for the video, Ray. Wow! Only in America do we get a recap! :grin-square:

It's a little hard to hear because of the music, but it looked like one of those normal squabbles that happens in the pool room. I don't think anybody got out of hand.

Dennis thought he could pull up, without a problem, but I guess he soon realized this is not a "given." It is a compromise that must be reached by both parties. His approaching it should have been private, not in front of the crowd. He should have pulled Rob aside and discussed it privately. Maybe this whole mess would not have occurred. I don't know.
 
JAM said:
Thanks for the video, Ray. Wow! Only in America do we get a recap! :grin-square:

It's a little hard to hear because of the music, but it looked like one of those normal squabbles that happens in the pool room. I don't think anybody got out of hand.

Dennis thought he could pull up, without a problem, but I guess he soon realized this is not a "given." It is a compromise that must be reached by both parties. His approaching it should have been private, not in front of the crowd. He should have pulled Rob aside and discussed it privately. Maybe this whole mess would not have occurred. I don't know.
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The kid from detroit come into the picture and then gets in my backers Gary face just out of screen on the left. They were literally screaming toe to toe. I thought they were about 10 seconds from coming to blows. The audio is bad because of the music in the background and we are playing like 30 ft from the camera. As you can see when I took the money down only one person came into the picture everyone else thought he forfeited and had zero problem with it. Also what you cant see is after Dennis broke his cue down he went over to stand next to one of the other Philipinos by th next table. When the money came down he put his cue back together so fast it was a joke. He was just pulling a total shark move.
 
Dennis was wrong but...

Yes, it's clear that Dennis is wrong...he wanted out...he should of played the set till the end...i thimk most agree on that here...but..

to thebighurt:

Dennis wanted out...you settled for 150 $...you made that deal...what do you want now?...

you want Dennis' money now? c'mon...

you want honour?...Jay clearly admitted Dennis was in the wrong here...why are you repeating yourself this much?

What exactly are you trying to accomplish here, other than getting your name heard, and trying to pull Dennis' and Jay's name in the mud...

You made the deal for 150$, deal with it like a man...as much as this has made Dennis look bad, it makes you look bad too, wrong or right, no class in either of you...
 
okrad1337 said:
Yes, it's clear that Dennis is wrong...he wanted out...he should of played the set till the end...i thimk most agree on that here...but..

to thebighurt:

Dennis wanted out...you settled for 150 $...you made that deal...what do you want now?...

you want Dennis' money now? c'mon...

you want honour?...Jay clearly admitted Dennis was in the wrong here...why are you repeating yourself this much?

What exactly are you trying to accomplish here, other than getting your name heard, and trying to pull Dennis' and Jay's name in the mud...

You made the deal for 150$, deal with it like a man...as much as this has made Dennis look bad, it makes you look bad too, wrong or right, no class in either of you...
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I didn't want or ask for anything. I came on here to let everyone know exactly what happened. Jay offered the extra buyout which I had asked Dennis for and he said no. Dennis forfeited plain and simple. Like I said if Dennis wanted to give the money than I would take it, I wasn't taking Jays. I wanted Dennis to admit he was wrong, to this point he hasn't. So he will have no problem doing it again obviously.
 
thebighurt said:
The kid from detroit come into the picture and then gets in my backers Gary face just out of screen on the left. They were literally screaming toe to toe. I thought they were about 10 seconds from coming to blows. The audio is bad because of the music in the background and we are playing like 30 ft from the camera. As you can see when I took the money down only one person came into the picture everyone else thought he forfeited and had zero problem with it. Also what you cant see is after Dennis broke his cue down he went over to stand next to one of the other Philipinos by th next table. When the money came down he put his cue back together so fast it was a joke. He was just pulling a total shark move.
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I wasn't there, of course, but I don't know if he was sharking as much as truly trying to get out of a bad bet, thinking you'd go for it. Maybe he didn't realize this wasn't your first rodeo. :wink:

If I was in Dennis' shoes and you pulled down the money, I'd screw my stick back together too. I'd rather play for it than lose it like that. At least by playing for it, he has another shot at winning rather than losing all of it like that.

Again, me not being there, just reading what others on site have written, Dennis sounds to me like he was experiencing gambling fatigue. In other words, he lost so much in the casino that he couldn't see straight.

The problem with these male pros out there is they don't have a good woman standing by their side. Dennis is his own man, but I'll bet if his lady was with him, he'd think twice before blowing his cheese in the casino. :wink:

I've seen Jose Parica do it many times, and he'd have to call home and explain to his wife why he was broke after winning a tournament. She sticks by him, still loves him, but they've had their battles about his gambling. Jose doens't have to worry about his future because he has a wife that works her butt off and makes good money. Hopefully, today Jose knows when to fold 'em and knows when to walk away. :grin-square:

Dennis shouldn't gamble in anything other than pool, but that could be said about most pro players today. At least with pool, Dennis will have better odds than he will playing against the house at a casino. :embarrassed2:
 
SakuJack said:
Looks more like a misunderstanding (albeit one where Dennis was in the wrong) than any kind of shark move to me.
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How is it a misunderstanding when your told 3 times if you break your stick down and dont finish you forfeit. What is their to misunderstand about that? Why did he put his cue back together in 3 seconds once the money came down ready to play. If it was a misunderstanding and not a move why not leave your cue put away and come over and talk?
 
Wow. Rob, I'm coming down to play you. If I lose, I want my money back. I'll even beg a little.:thumbup: You're too kind. He would have had to pry it out of my hands.

Not to pile on, but everyone agrees he's in the wrong. He should ask Jay to post an apology to you and pay the $350. I think this hurts his image for sure and that's too bad. He truly is one of the greats. There's still time to make this right. That $500 is going to cost him a lot down the road if people won't match up with him.
 
Woof Biscuit said:
Wow. Rob, I'm coming down to play you. If I lose, I want my money back. I'll even beg a little.:thumbup: You're too kind. He would have had to pry it out of my hands.

Not to pile on, but everyone agrees he's in the wrong. He should ask Jay to post an apology to you and pay the $350. I think this hurts his image for sure and that's too bad. He truly is one of the greats. There's still time to make this right. That $500 is going to cost him a lot down the road if people won't match up with him.
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Good thought for sure.

But I think at this stage, the damage is done. Feelings have been rubbed raw, and the topic has been beaten to death. In the process, three good pool peeps -- Jay Helfert, Rob Melrose, and Dennis Orcollo -- have been flamed on this thread. That was *not* the intention of this thread whatsoever, though it has ended up this way.

Rob doesn't need to defend his actions, and Jay doesn't need to take the heat for what Dennis Orcollo did. If Dennis was my friend, I would be on this thread trying to do *exactly* what Jay did.

One trait of a forum like AzBilliards is that a person's words as dissected so many different ways that they sometimes end up meaning the complete opposite of what was originally intended, and then everybody piles on with their thoughts. By the end of the thread, if it isn't deleted or closed, it's not even on point of the original topic.

The incident happened, and nothing is going to change it. Time to move on. There's not much more that can be said about this one. :embarrassed2:
 
Good post and I agree for the most part, but it's never too late to make things right.

JAM said:
Good thought for sure.

But I think at this stage, the damage is done. Feelings have been rubbed raw, and the topic has been beaten to death. In the process, three good pool peeps -- Jay Helfert, Rob Melrose, and Dennis Orcollo -- have been flamed on this thread. That was *not* the intention of this thread whatsoever, though it has ended up this way.

Rob doesn't need to defend his actions, and Jay doesn't need to take the heat for what Dennis Orcollo did. If Dennis was my friend, I would be on this thread trying to do *exactly* what Jay did.

One trait of a forum like AzBilliards is that a person's words as dissected so many different ways that they sometimes end up meaning the complete opposite of what was originally intended, and then everybody piles on with their thoughts. By the end of the thread, if it isn't deleted or closed, it's not even on point of the original topic.

The incident happened, and nothing is going to change it. Time to move on. There's not much more that can be said about this one. :embarrassed2:
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