Perception in CTE Pro 1

mohrt said:
So any aiming system that takes you to the shot line (line through the ghostball) puts you in the worst position possible to runout. :confused: That is some great insight there.
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Yes it does ..unless you play on barbox.:)
Them things let you get away with murder.

Get good at aiming SIR or should I say running racks on a big table and you will realize a lot of aiming is done with the thought of aiming outside of the center cb.

It just the way it is.:).
 
8pack said:
Yes it does ..unless you play on barbox.:)
Them things let you get away with murder.

Get good at aiming SIR or should I say running racks on a big table and you will realize a lot of aiming is done with the thought of aiming outside of the center cb.

It just the way it is.:).
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So you are trying to extrapolate some lesson on CIT. Well I hate to break it to you, but this dead horse has been beaten to death. Anyone familiar with pool will know there are always things one must account for through experience. CIT, cling, dirty balls, cloth speed, humidity, cueball speed, cueball spin. Yeah we get it. Nothing new here. An aiming system just gives you something to start with. Center pocket is typically a good place to start. And in case you might not know, CIT is not as big of a deal that some people make it out to be. Just don't stun the ball at a half-ball hit, you'll be fine.
 
mohrt said:
So you are trying to extrapolate some lesson on CIT. Well I hate to break it to you, but this dead horse has been beaten to death. Anyone familiar with pool will know there are always things one must account for through experience. CIT, cling, dirty balls, cloth speed, humidity, cueball speed, cueball spin. Yeah we get it. Nothing new here. An aiming system just gives you something to start with. Center pocket is typically a good place to start. And in case you might not know, CIT is not as big of a deal that some people make it out to be. Just don't stun the ball at a half-ball hit, you'll be fine.
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Has nothing to do with CIT.
As players we dont get the luxury shooting for a ghostball when running a table.(Maybe sometimes )
 
Wait, what??? An aiming system that gets you to the ghost ball is bad? Anyone know of an aiming system that gets me to miss the pocket then?

Very little of my aiming is done with the thought of aiming outside of CCB. And when I do use side spin, I first find the line the CB must take with a CCB strike, then take all other considerations into effect to pocket the ball. You've been watching too many amateurs that over use side spin.

Can't believe how much stick CTE still gets. Its been around for years, and some great players have shown how effective it is even at the highest levels. And yet countless people continue to question and slam it from under their rickety bridge.
 
8pack said:
Has nothing to do with CIT.
As players we dont get the luxury shooting for a ghostball when running a table.(Maybe sometimes )
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Details aside, pool really is outcome based. If the ball is making its way to the pocket consistently, then whatever you are doing is working. When I use CTE, the balls go in the pocket pretty consistently. Even on 9 footers, imagine that. Do I need to worry about where the ghostball line is, or how I must adjust from that? I really don't think about it. I don't usually put outside spin on the shot, unless CB positioning dictates that. Adding a little inside, outside, etc. doesn't really affect where I'm aiming. Again, it's not as much of an issue as some think it is.
 
mohrt said:
Details aside, pool really is outcome based. If the ball is making its way to the pocket consistently, then whatever you are doing is working. When I use CTE, the balls go in the pocket pretty consistently. Even on 9 footers, imagine that. Do I need to worry about where the ghostball line is, or how I must adjust from that? I really don't think about it. I don't usually put outside spin on the shot, unless CB positioning dictates that. Adding a little inside, outside, etc. doesn't really affect where I'm aiming. Again, it's not as much of an issue as some think it is.
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Pidge said:
Wait, what??? An aiming system that gets you to the ghost ball is bad? Anyone know of an aiming system that gets me to miss the pocket then?

Very little of my aiming is done with the thought of aiming outside of CCB. And when I do use side spin, I first find the line the CB must take with a CCB strike, then take all other considerations into effect to pocket the ball. You've been watching too many amateurs that over use side spin.

Can't believe how much stick CTE still gets. Its been around for years, and some great players have shown how effective it is even at the highest levels. And yet countless people continue to question and slam it from under their rickety bridge.
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Unless you play snooker.
Again my opinion gb connection is the last thing I'M trying to aim at.
About 75 percent of my shooting is done outside center.

Establish my connection then factor speed and distance,ghost ball is a lost cause.
 
Thank you everyone for all your answers. I know it can be tough to understand what a person asks and colocation of people of course is much more superior when such subject is discussed. At lest we tried. :-)

Let me explain why these questions are important to understand the system quicker and beyond the doubt.

Human language is very ambiguous. It differs from programming languages where in majority cases the result is predetermined. I am very accurate saying "majority" vs "all" since sometimes the result is not defined in programming languages too.

I asked the questions that allow one to narrow possibilities, a range of actions which a student can try.

For example my question, is the perception between these lines? Well, if yes, then I am not going to try and find something beyond these range and it will save a lot of time. Can you describe what you feel by saying perception to clarify? Why when you move too much, one line goes out and you do not see it anymore I can imagine lines everywhere? What does it mean?

Or what the center means... It is not that simple. When you look at a line behind the ball and the end of the line, the center is the same, any point at the vertical line that divides the ball in hals and continues to the line connecting the balls. If it is not the case when you are not looking behind that line. In this case the line connecting the cue ball and the object ball is not vertical anymore, it is diagonal.

Therefore, there are several possibilities that a person can think what the center of the ball is. See my diagram below. What is the center, #1,#2,#3, #4, or something else? I understand the diagram is not perfect and I see a little offset from the center, but I hope you get the point. I am not good at drawing. :-)


Almost all my questions are like that. The goal is to remove ambiguity. If people were able to understand and explain these details, the learning process itself would be much easier and maybe one would not need to spend months before understanding the system. I believe the reason why it takes so long is because an ambiguity of the method communication to students. I am not taking into account psychological and physiological factors here that reside on top of it.
 
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8pack said:
If you think so.

Voice my opinion and here you guy's come.:smile:
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You call it an opinion, but clearly things like this are said only to get a rise out of someone. So I guess you get what you were after?
 
rubell said:
Thank you everyone for all your answers. I know it can be tough to understand what a person asks and colocation of people of course is much more superior when such subject is discussed. At lest we tried. :-)

Let me explain why these questions are important to understand the system quicker and beyond the doubt.

Human language is very ambiguous. It differs from programming languages where in majority cases the result is predetermined. I am very accurate saying "majority" vs "all" since sometimes the result is not defined in programming languages too.

I asked the questions that allow one to narrow possibilities, a range of actions which a student can try.

For example my question, is the perception between these lines? Well, if yes, then I am not going to try and find something beyond these range and it will save a lot of time. Can you describe what you feel by saying perception to clarify? Why when you move too much, one line goes out and you do not see it anymore I can imagine lines everywhere? What does it mean?

Or what the center means... It is not that simple. When you look at a line behind the ball and the end of the line, the center is the same, any point at the vertical line that divides the ball in hals and continues to the line connecting the balls. If it is not the case when you are not looking behind that line. In this case the line connecting the cue ball and the object ball is not vertical anymore, it is diagonal.

Therefore, there are several possibilities that a person can think what the center of the ball is. See my diagram below. What is the center, #1,#2,#3, #4, or something else? I understand the diagram is not perfect and I see a little offset from the center, but I hope you get the point. I am not good at drawing. :-)


Almost all my questions are like that. The goal is to remove ambiguity. If people were able to understand and explain these details, the learning process itself would be much easier and maybe one would not need to spend months before understanding the system. I believe the reason why it takes so long is because an ambiguity of the method communication to students. I am not taking into account psychological and physiological factors here that reside on top of it.
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I think there is a line between understanding enough to figure it out, and understanding more than is really necessary to be successful with the system. When you start getting into diagrams and try to refine every little detail, this is A) not always easy to describe in language, and B) really more complicated than is really necessary to figure out by going to the table. By taking the system to the table, you figure out what perception (for your vision center) takes the ball to the pocket. From there it refines, and is repeatable.
 
What can be easier to answer than by looking at the diagram and say 1,2,3,4 or something else? :-)

Well, someone else in the thread wrote I need to be exact, otherwise it is not CTE, you are telling me otherwise.

If someone connects a line with a wrong point, they will have to compensate and it will not be CTE Pro1 anymore, it is a different method.

It is funny, and I am saying it without negativity. It is really funny. Nobody yet answered these precise questions, even the simplest questions, event with the diagram. However, I've read some comments how good CTE Pro1, it is not a fraud and a real system, etc. and if someone does not agree, they do not know what they are talking about. I already know that, but it does not help with the learning process. :-)
 
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rubell said:
What can be easier to answer than by looking at the diagram and say 1,2,3,4 or something else? :-)

Well, someone else in the thread wrote I need to be exact, otherwise it is not CTE, you are telling me otherwise.

If someone connects a line with a wrong point, they will have to compensate and it will not be CTE Pro1 anymore, it is a different method.

It is funny, and I am saying it without negativity. It is really funny. Nobody yet answered precise questions, even simplest questions, event with the diagram. However, I've read some comments how good CTE Pro1, it is not a fraud and a real system, etc. and if someone does not agree, they do not know what they are talking about. I already know that, but it does not help with the learning process. :-)
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I don't think anyone knows the exact answers in the terms you are looking for. CTE is a visual system, made up of 3D visuals, not 2D diagrams. It has already been explained to you, go to the table find what you perceive to be CTEL and A. Sweep in (or half tip pivot) and shoot center ball. Through repetition your eyes and mind will unravel what makes the ball hit the pocket. You don't need protractors and rulers for this, and they won't be correct with a 2D diagram anyways.

Maybe this will help? http://www.billiardsthegame.com/perception-is-everything-689
 
Maybe this will help, maybe it won't.... remember the diagram with the 3 or 4 ob's lined up across the width of the table about 1/2 diamond or so apart, and the cb directly in line with them? I'ts often been asked how the same visuals can make all 3 or 4 balls. Well, on top of that, the same visuals can also bank some of those balls!

How can this be??? So many ask. All they get told is "perception". Well, just what do we mean by perception? First off, let me start by saying that while the visuals are the same on all the shots and banks above, EVERYTHING is not exactly the same. If everything were the same, each ball would follow the same angle, and they obviously don't.

That's where our "perception" comes in. Perception means how we look at something. OK, so we are looking at the balls differently, but still using the same visuals? YES! To help understand, do this- set up a ball in the middle of the table, cb on the foot spot. Now, let's say you want to cut the ball into the left corner pocket. Look closely at how you approached the cb. Now, take the same shot, but now you want to bank it one rail into the bottom left pocket. Closely look at how you approached this shot.

You will notice that on the bank shot, you approached the shot more "square" than you did for the cut shot. THAT'S where the "perception" comes in. Using CTE, you can obtain the same visuals from both spots. One gives you the bank, when approached from a steeper angle, the same visuals give you the cut.

Essentially, you know what you want to do with the shot. You approach the shot with that in mind, and get your visuals from THAT perspective. Now you have a center pocket shot. From each rough perspective, there is only one place to get your visuals correct. However, there are several rough perspectives that you can do this from.

Did that help anyone??
 
Neil said:
Maybe this will help, maybe it won't.... remember the diagram with the 3 or 4 ob's lined up across the width of the table about 1/2 diamond or so apart, and the cb directly in line with them? I'ts often been asked how the same visuals can make all 3 or 4 balls. Well, on top of that, the same visuals can also bank some of those balls!

How can this be??? So many ask. All they get told is "perception". Well, just what do we mean by perception? First off, let me start by saying that while the visuals are the same on all the shots and banks above, EVERYTHING is not exactly the same. If everything were the same, each ball would follow the same angle, and they obviously don't.

That's where our "perception" comes in. Perception means how we look at something. OK, so we are looking at the balls differently, but still using the same visuals? YES! To help understand, do this- set up a ball in the middle of the table, cb on the foot spot. Now, let's say you want to cut the ball into the left corner pocket. Look closely at how you approached the cb. Now, take the same shot, but now you want to bank it one rail into the bottom left pocket. Closely look at how you approached this shot.

You will notice that on the bank shot, you approached the shot more "square" than you did for the cut shot. THAT'S where the "perception" comes in. Using CTE, you can obtain the same visuals from both spots. One gives you the bank, when approached from a steeper angle, the same visuals give you the cut.

Essentially, you know what you want to do with the shot. You approach the shot with that in mind, and get your visuals from THAT perspective. Now you have a center pocket shot. From each rough perspective, there is only one place to get your visuals correct. However, there are several rough perspectives that you can do this from.

Did that help anyone??
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Of course Neil. You gave a good summary. What you are saying that when you shoot before you know the system you will see where the object ball goes and then will try to calibrate perspective and tune up mechanics and all other definitions so the ball consistently goes to the pocket. Noted.

It is a good approach for a beginner of the method. Now there are good instructions what to do instead of saying "go and hit the ball" which I read "go and randomly hit the balls, one day you will understand what to do at the table". :-) I think it will be helpful for others too. Thanks.
 
The system relies on the subconscious to make the minute necasary adjustments. The adjustments come in the form of where the bridge hand lands, etc. CTE users can not explain how the system works because they deny that it works this way.

The shots Niel described are all consistanly in the following areas. 1) the distance from the cueball to the objectball 2) the visuals used to line up the shots.

If a person truly used the exact same visuals (no matter what their vision center dominance is) on the exact cueball and object ball relation and the person truly dropped into the shot the same way everytime, then the results of the shot would produce the same angle.

The reason different cut angles are produced from the same set up (the only difference being the location of the set up on the table) is because your subconscious has a message to send the object ball into the pocket and the subconscious is able to pick up information as to where the pocket is located and finally the subconscious allows you to make the necessary adjustments needs to pocket the ball. You are not even consciously aware that your bridge landed in a slightly different place or that you did not pivot quite as much.
 
By the way, the visuals themselves can be seen from different locations.

For example, I can see CTE/ ETA from one spot, move a little left and still see it, move a little right and still see it.

My point is that CTE/Pro one is a subconscious system. In order for it to work you have to believe that it will work. The most important factor is being able to believe. I've seen CTE users using the wrong visuals prescribed for the shot, making the wrong pivots, & totally using the system wrong yet still making it work and preaching of its effectiveness. And I have also seen people on here who claim they have followed the video precisely and are still struggling.

It's all about hitting enough balls to program the subconscious and believing in your system.
 
(((Satori))) said:
The system relies on the subconscious to make the minute necasary adjustments. The adjustments come in the form of where the bridge hand lands, etc. CTE users can not explain how the system works because they deny that it works this way.

The shots Niel described are all consistanly in the following areas. 1) the distance from the cueball to the objectball 2) the visuals used to line up the shots.

If a person truly used the exact same visuals (no matter what their vision center dominance is) on the exact cueball and object ball relation and the person truly dropped into the shot the same way everytime, then the results of the shot would produce the same angle.

The reason different cut angles are produced from the same set up (the only difference being the location of the set up on the table) is because your subconscious has a message to send the object ball into the pocket and the subconscious is able to pick up information as to where the pocket is located and finally the subconscious allows you to make the necessary adjustments needs to pocket the ball. You are not even consciously aware that your bridge landed in a slightly different place or that you did not pivot quite as much.
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I think Neil was telling about eye position related to balls. This is what differs. It is actually easy to imagine or if not, you can take real balls, or you can take 2 cups if you do not have access to a pool table. Place them somewhere, does not matter where, connect what you think, say center to edge. Note where that line is, then move your eyes a little bit, you can move your head, connect again, you will see the angle changes. When they say the same visuals, it is not, "the same" means center to edge remains center to edge, but the real line is different.

This is a similar effect when you shoot. For example, let's say you know how to shoot straight. Then move your head a little bit right when you shoot, then when you try to shoot straight, the cue ball, if I am not confused, will go left and the object ball to the right.

One thing you are right, that position offset (you tell something is different) is trained. After some time it becomes natural and the person does not see it. While I use a different method I shoot well-known for me positions without thinking, I see the aim line right away without any calculations. The secret is to receive feedback on each shot,calibrate and create a connection in the brain about intput - output of the shot. After some time it becomes like a reflex.

The training of the brain is not that difficult, one can train it in a finite number of spots, then try to adjust for spots between. Sometimes it can be done automatically right away since the brain is designed to solve problems like that very well.
 
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