do 3 cushion players make good pocket pool players

phillippi

phillippi

Banned
how are 3 cushion players at the game of pocket pool?
and visa versa, how do pocket pool players fair when attempting 3 cusion games?
 
The silence to your thread is deafening. The lack of response may be your answer. The two types of games involve rather different skill sets. Of course, there are examples like Efren Reyes who plays both games at high level. But those players are rare. IMO, pool provides almost no preparation for playing 3-cushion billiards. But even modest experience in 3C makes me a much better 9/10 ball player.

I wish there were 3C tables in CT pool rooms. Good subject for a thread, even if there are not many responses.
 
answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh3r1_DIyTg

you will also find some videos of efren playing 3 cushion.

it is pretty rare that players from carambol (so normal carambol, different 3 cushion formats and artisitque) switch to pocket billards and vice versa, but if they do they can, of course, do pretty good since all need good cueing action.

enjoy the vids!

btw: 3 cushion is a great training for poolplayers to learn more about the angles involved in the games. actually all forms of billards focus on something special, so playing and enjoying them all is a good thing :thumbup:
 
Sealegs50 said:
The silence to your thread is deafening. The lack of response may be your answer. The two types of games involve rather different skill sets. Of course, there are examples like Efren Reyes who plays both games at high level. But those players are rare. IMO, pool provides almost no preparation for playing 3-cushion billiards. But even modest experience in 3C makes me a much better 9/10 ball player.

I wish there were 3C tables in CT pool rooms. Good subject for a thread, even if there are not many responses.
Click to expand...

I agree. In fact, when Efren played Torbjörn Blomdahl in that challenge match so many years ago, Blomdahl won both 3C (no surprise) and 9-ball (surprise!).

Efren Reyes vs Torbjörn Blomdahl, 9-ball, part 1 of 3:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jh3r1_DIyTg

Efren Reyes vs Torbjörn Blomdahl, 9-ball, part 2 of 3:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hnBls_F81JU

Efren Reyes vs Torbjörn Blomdahl, 9-ball, part 3 of 3:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QEGYPzc3ywg

Efren Reyes vs Torbjörn Blomdahl, 3-cushion billiards, part 1 of 3:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lm2vSjJkypY

Efren Reyes vs Torbjörn Blomdahl, 3-cushion billiards, part 2 of 3:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=80ZFFGZDn0I

Efren Reyes vs Torbjörn Blomdahl, 3-cushion billiards, part 3 of 3:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0BHZ5wjrxv0


There was supposedly a rematch as well (e.g. substituting 10-ball instead of 9-ball), but the videos on YouTube seem to be only promotional videos / trailers:

Efren Reyes vs Torbjörn Blomdahl rematch, 3-cushion billiards promo:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jbOFRRv7axs

Efren Reyes vs Torbjörn Blomdahl rematch, 10-ball promo:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=68Av5CcwSsM


In summary, a 3C player would have the skills to at least play pool games decently, while the reverse (i.e. a pool player trying 3-cushion) is not necessarily so. A 3C player already has the necessary skillsets to pocket balls, but the reverse -- a pool player at a 3C table -- doesn't automatically have knowledge of e.g. diamond systems to play 3C at a decent level without a lot of "trial and error." The reason why Efren Reyes is different in this equation, is that he DOES have the necessary skills -- he's played and gambled at 3C and carom games for years.

-Sean
 
Efren, Blomdahl, Harold Worst, Boston Shorty, Mosconi, Dave Matlock and a few others were excellent at both and are the people usually talked about in this regard.

Some like Sang Lee were supposed to be terrible at pool.

Most "A" players at pool can become pretty decent at billiards if they take it seriously and learn most of the shots. Their skill at thin hits and drawing the ball really help, especially compared to old guys who only play carom.
 
phillippi said:
how are 3 cushion players at the game of pocket pool?
and visa versa, how do pocket pool players fair when attempting 3 cusion games?
Click to expand...

I would say NO, with a few exceptions. I've seen a top 3-C player play 9 ball, he was about a low to mid B player, and is a world class 3-C player. The main issue was the pattern play.

Snooker and pool are a lot more in line with each other than 3-C and pool.
 
Minnesota Fats played strong 3C and he was a top-notch pocket billiard player. You could see in the angles he chose for position that he played 3C
 
My so called dream room would have three tables. I have a 10-foot Anniversary pool table and had a 10-foot GC1 snooker table. I stumbled on a 10-foot Centennial 3C table for cheap, but passed when I started calculating how much space I would need.

I also started contemplating what it would be like to play all three. I was given some interesting advice if I were to choose two tables: go with pool and 3C. I was told 3C would beneifit me (as a pool player) more than snooker would.

As it turns out, I let the snooker table go and will stick with pool.
 
ideologist said:
Minnesota Fats played strong 3C and he was a top-notch pocket billiard player. You could see in the angles he chose for position that he played 3C
Click to expand...

From my perspective, the value in becoming comfortable with using 3+ cushions is getting out of tight safeties in 9/10 ball. No matter how badly I am hooked, there is almost always a way out.
 
bud green said:
Efren, Blomdahl, Harold Worst, Boston Shorty, Mosconi, Dave Matlock and a few others were excellent at both and are the people usually talked about in this regard.

Some like Sang Lee were supposed to be terrible at pool.

Most "A" players at pool can become pretty decent at billiards if they take it seriously and learn most of the shots. Their skill at thin hits and drawing the ball really help, especially compared to old guys who only play carom.
Click to expand...

Of the dedicated 3-c players I have seen play pool, Blomdahl & Saygıner were the best pool players. Sang Lee was definitely the worst, horrible in fact. I'm not sure if Harold Worst was a dedicated 3-c player first that became a good pool player too, but he is high on everyone's list of those that played all games great, as of course Efren (my hero).

So to try to answer your question: There is no hard and fast rule of a players ability to switch games and play at a high level. Playing 3-c will not help a pool player's ball pocketing at all, but it sure opens up ones knowledge for cue ball control and creativity using the rails. It really can translate well in 1-pocket since they are played at a similar rhythm and rail knowledge is mandatory. But there are several 3-c players that play pool very well, as there are several pool players that play 3-c well, just not at the top level. However, I do believe that most of the top pool players if dedicated the right amount of time and training could play top speed 3-c, they are just too talented not to. But there is just no real incentive to step away from pool for a period of time because not many people gamble at 3-c nor is there much money in it in tournament play so why bother.

3-c is played because of a passion to do so and the love of the game, not for monetary gain in my opinion. Too bad, 3-c is by far the most elegant of all cue sports (I had to add that for those that are sick of the word "elegant" when describing 3-c). :)

Dave
 
Agree with Bob

Bob Jewett said:
Nice kick.

The list of old-timers who played both games very well is long. Include De Oro who was world champion at both. Greenleaf and Procita both played in 3-C tournaments but weren't at the top.
Click to expand...

Yes!

My first idol as a youth was Jack Hoffman, who was the best pocket pool player AND the best 3-C player in the area. I played some 3-C in the '60s and it gave me an advantage over the pocket pool only players that could not use more than one to two rails with much success...
 
Some might remember Dallas West also competed in ABA 3C Tournament events, beside been a great 14.1 player. I also believe his pool room in Rockford, IL have a 3C table.
 
I play both reasonably well ("A" level in pool, .7 avg in 3 cushion when I was playing regularly). I was probably a decent B player when I started playing 3 cushion, so having decent knowledge and a decent stroke helped. But learning to play 3 cushion well required a slightly different focus, learning the shots, and principles such as proper speed, position, missing kisses, safeties, etc.

Knowledge in 3 cushion definitely helps when playing pool, being able to achieve different hits on the balls, playing safe, blending spin/speed, kicking, etc. You also get very used to using inside english well, as many standard ball first running english shots in 3 cushion are essentially what pool players would consider inside english.

They are different games, different size equipment, and require different strokes to some degree. Trust me, I just started playing 3 cushion again after a long period of not playing and it screwed up my pool stroke for a week or so. So those top players already mentioned that can do both at that level are really something special.
Scott
 
Average pool players play better 3C than average 3C players play pool, average pool players usually stroke more fluently and due to lack of knowledge they go for almost every point in 3C, the opposite of which usually holds back average 3C players.
In higher levels you will usually find more pool players being versatile as well, with increase in better pool level by 3C players too.
Alfredo de Oro is indeed the only recorded world champion in both pool and carom games (balkine billiards and a primitive straight pool format game if I recall well, "15ball" or something).
Pool helps 3C players feel better fractional aiming and 3C helps pool players with their defensive game in pool..
 
I am primarily a 3C player who has played all the games at one time or another, but now the only pool game I play is the occasional funsies 1P. Lots of very good comments is the earlier posts.

Whenever the room where I played had a big pool tournament, I would try to get at least one of the top pool players on the billiard table. The one I remember best was Max Eberle. We didn't gamble, so I was helping him recognize patterns. Whenever he couldn't find anything on his own, I would suggest something. Danged if he didn't make it first try well over 50% of the time. He could easily become national class.
 
Your in luck !

KCRack'em said:
My so called dream room would have three tables. I have a 10-foot Anniversary pool table and had a 10-foot GC1 snooker table. I stumbled on a 10-foot Centennial 3C table for cheap, but passed when I started calculating how much space I would need.

I also started contemplating what it would be like to play all three. I was given some interesting advice if I were to choose two tables: go with pool and 3C. I was told 3C would beneifit me (as a pool player) more than snooker would.

As it turns out, I let the snooker table go and will stick with pool.
Click to expand...

I have all of these for sale, fully restored, but not cheap. I also have a 9' Anniversary !
 
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