Proposed TAR - TOI VS NO AIMING SYSTEM

CJ Wiley said:
In 'Two Shot Shoot Out' you can't duck and hide, you must make the shots and run out and strategically out maneuver you opponent. The quality of shot making, safety play, long shots, banking, caroming, and aggressive play is far superior to "One Foul" and superior to One Pocket (not vastly, however it's definitely more difficult).

'Shoot Out' is more strategically difficult than One Pocket and I've stated many times that I would bet very high that I will prove that on video or streaming video with anyone on this planet. Not only will I win this debate on video, I will win it convincingly. One Pocket's a great game and I enjoy it, however you only shoot and/or guard against one pocket, you don't use the sides and in 'Two Shot Shoot Out' you must guard against all six pockets. The roll outs set up a challenging situation every time in every game that isn't a "break and run".....if there's a required "roll out" it happens in every single game.

In 'Shoot Out' there are thousands of strategic possibilities and the players will be shooting most of them off the end rail, the side rail, masse' shots, jump shots, long cut shots, long bank shots, hundreds of "two way shots" and a plethora of one, two, and three rail banks in the corners as well as the sides while still playing position on the next shot and safe if you miss ....and if you miss it must be on a designated side of the pocket or you will sell out and lose the game. 'The Game is the Teacher'
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It is a "SHOOTER'S" game...not a "DUCKER'S" game if you ask me. You can afford to shoot a shot and make a "recoverable" error if you fail to get position because you have the option to roll out if you don't like the shot. In one-foul, the majority of the people aren't going to go for the shot unless it is a LOCK...or they will "DUCK". Then it becomes "run a few", "duck", "get ball in hand", "run a few", "duck"...OVER and OVER and OVER.

In two-shot you not only have to think about where to roll out to, you also have to have figured out what you are going to do if he passes the shot back, before you even roll out. You don't just roll out "willy nilly" and hope he shoots it...you have to know what is going to happen if he don't.
 
HawaiianEye said:
It is a "SHOOTER'S" game...not a "DUCKER'S" game if you ask me. You can afford to shoot a shot and make a "recoverable" error if you fail to get position because you have the option to roll out if you don't like the shot. In one-foul, the majority of the people aren't going to go for the shot unless it is a LOCK...or they will "DUCK". Then it becomes "run a few", "duck", "get ball in hand", "run a few", "duck"...OVER and OVER and OVER.

In two-shot you not only have to think about where to roll out to, you also have to have figured out what you are going to do if he passes the shot back, before you even roll out. You don't just roll out "willy nilly" and hope he shoots it...you have to know what is going to happen if he don't.
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You act like this is hard to do.

Also, the fact that you and CJ keep labeling it as a "shooters" game takes away from the strategic element you're trying to convey.

Finally, how much 9 ball have you actually watched lately? Players today are highly aggressive and very often will go after a shot that's not a lock.
 
"Two Shot Shoot Out' is an aggressive smorgasbord of exciting shots and entertainment

BeiberLvr said:
CJ,

You've mentioned the guarding against 6 pockets numerous times, and that you don't use the other pockets in one pocket. Sorry, but that's not true.

There are countless situations where all 6 pockets will never come into play in 2F9B. In reality,
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You don't "real eyes" that on the roll outs we move other balls and the other pockets are usually in play. The next ball after the one you are shooting is always the key ball and it can be moved. Sometimes just moving a ball an inch or two makes a big difference in upcoming situations.

To move this ball it's not usually a direct move, many times you are moving it by banking another ball into it, or repositioning the ball after that for reasons that may not be apparent to any but the most advanced onlookers.

If you had to play me "Shoot Out" for two hours you would have a head ache that would not go away for many hours.....you have no idea how advanced this game is you're trying to talk about. It's like chess on the pool table, only much, much more difficult.

Those are the facts and I can definitely prove my points and will one of these days on video. If I wasn't at the completion stage of this Million Dollar/Earl Strickland Documentary we'd do a video demonstrating and explaining my points to those that want to learn more. Unfortunately our computers are all full with content from the documentary's Post Production and the editing is top priority.

If anyone thinks they can learn to play 'Two Shot Shoot Out' in a short period, it's simply not possible. What's also cool about the game is there's so many levels to it depending on your own skill set.

The game is like boxing and if you don't know how to protect yourself a high caliber "Shoot Out' player will knock you completely out. It's not like the "warm and fuzzy" style of "One Foul" where you can duck and get "ball in hand" or make your opponent kick and give you an easy shot.....there are not many "easy" shots playing "Two Shot Shoot Out' is an aggressive smorgasbord of exciting shots and entertaining strategic plays.
 
BeiberLvr said:
You act like this is hard to do.

Also, the fact that you and CJ keep labeling it as a "shooters" game takes away from the strategic element you're trying to convey.

Finally, how much 9 ball have you actually watched lately? Players today are highly aggressive and very often will go after a shot that's not a lock.
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I didn't say it was ONLY a shooter's game. The "strategy" part of the game is FIGURING out what the opponent "will and won't" shoot at. Hopefully you figure it out before he figures it out on you. St. Louis Louie could RIFLE a ball an inch from the rail the length of the table. 99% of the people can't do that. He would leave that shot consistently and punish you if you were afraid to go for it.

I watch professional 9-ball every time I get a chance, but it is in "NO WAY" comparable entertainment to watching the way it was played way back when.
 
Not only do you have to make strategic shots, but they are usually long shots

BeiberLvr said:
You act like this is hard to do.

Also, the fact that you and CJ keep labeling it as a "shooters" game takes away from the strategic element you're trying to convey.

Finally, how much 9 ball have you actually watched lately? Players today are highly aggressive and very often will go after a shot that's not a lock.
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It's a "shooter's game" because you have to shoot difficult long shots. Players these days play One Foul very well, but it's only (on average) 20% of the shots that come up playing 'Two Shot Shoot Out'. In One Foul the situations are not controlled and there's no "DARE ELEMENT"......the "Golden Nugget" in 'Shoot Out' is the "dare shots" and they come up one after another.....in every "roll out" situation. Now we are getting to the "advanced chapter" of why the game is so strategically difficult, it's because of the ability to "dare" your opponent.

Not only do you have to make strategic shots, but they are usually long shots off the end rail...this is only one of the reasons it's more challenging than One Pocket. Most of the shots in One Pocket are not off the end rail, and the majority are only using half of the table......this is not even close to being true in 'Shoot Out'' ....and of course if someone hasn't played the game it's painfully obvious. 'The Game is the Professor'
 
HawaiianEye said:
Good. :) Now convince Chris of that and we may have a game. :)
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Convince him of what? What he already knows? He's not about to go out there for ten bucks a game with a max win of five-hundred. Give up on it, it isn't going to happen, and it's not Chris' fault.
 
more racks will be run playing "Shoot Out' than "One Foul"......for sure!

8pack said:
Nope, your doing it rite.."It's still nine ball".:D
If Chris thinks he can win playing one pocket and 9 ball he should step up and play Cj.;)

Its not all cracked up like some are making it.
Just my opinion though.
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It's the difference between playing "Tick-Tac-Toe" and Chess.

This is how far off your "opinion" is, and this is something that can be proved beyond any doubt......I'll give up 10 to 1 on the money and cover all bets that 'Two Shot Shoot Out' is more advanced than One Foul........it's actually "night and day" difference, especially if there's a roll out to start the game.

The "break and run out" portion is close to the same, although more racks will be run playing "Shoot Out' than "One Foul"......for sure over the course of time!
 
You can get the 5 and the break and I'll bet you $100 a game and lose 50 games.

Neil said:
Convince him of what? What he already knows? He's not about to go out there for ten bucks a game with a max win of five-hundred. Give up on it, it isn't going to happen, and it's not Chris' fault.
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That was if I gave him the break playing 9 Ball....I will give him the break, but will only bet $10 a game, and will only lose 50 games.

You can get the 5 and the break and I'll bet you $100 a game and lose 50 games.
 
CJ Wiley said:
It's a "shooter's game" because you have to shoot difficult long shots. Players these days play One Foul very well, but it's only (on average) 20% of the shots that come up playing 'Two Shot Shoot Out'. In One Foul the situations are not controlled and there's no "DARE ELEMENT"......the "Golden Nugget" in 'Shoot Out' is the "dare shots" and they come up one after another.....in every "roll out" situation. Now we are getting to the "advanced chapter" of why the game is so strategically difficult, it's because of the ability to "dare" your opponent.

Not only do you have to make strategic shots, but they are usually long shots off the end rail...this is only one of the reasons it's more challenging than One Pocket. Most of the shots in One Pocket are not off the end rail, and the majority are only using half of the table......this is not even close to being true in 'Shoot Out'' ....and of course if someone hasn't played the game it's painfully obvious. 'The Game is the Professor'
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Back in the day, we had a saying- if I can see it, I can make it. With one foul, nobody lives by that rule anymore. That does not mean that in very short order that todays players would not start shooting and making the shots that they pass up on now. And, as soon as they do, you are right back to where we are now. Not really any difference. Same essential game, just played a little differently. The main theme of it will still be runnout pool just like it is now. You will just see them shoot more banks and tougher shots than they have to now.

As far as spot shots, back then they could be a tester if one didn't know how to make them. Today, it takes all of five minutes to learn the "secret" to making them very, very consistently. It's a shot no pro should ever miss. Heck, one player made over a 1,000 in a row.
 
Neil said:
Convince him of what? What he already knows? He's not about to go out there for ten bucks a game with a max win of five-hundred. Give up on it, it isn't going to happen, and it's not Chris' fault.
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The TITLE of this thread says "TAR....." in it, doesn't it? If this was a TAR match, both the winner and loser get money from JCIN. The only other money they would have to think about WINNING or LOSING is UP to THEM with side bets Even if they didn't bet sky-high, the winner could have a profitable weekend. Better than sitting home and doing laundry.
 
CJ Wiley said:
It's the difference between playing "Tick-Tac-Toe" and Chess.

This is how far off your "opinion" is, and this is something that can be proved beyond any doubt......I'll give up 10 to 1 on the money and cover all bets that 'Two Shot Shoot Out' is more advanced than One Foul........it's actually "night and day" difference, especially if there's a roll out to start the game.

The "break and run out" portion is close to the same, although more racks will be run playing "Shoot Out' than "One Foul"......for sure over the course of time!
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It should be obvious to you by now that no one is interested in your silly bet. So here's my suggestion.

Record a video (at least 2 hrs. in length) and go over the differences between the two games and put it on your website for a reasonable price to download or stream. I'll be the first in line to buy.
 
vast differences.

Neil said:
Back in the day, we had a saying- if I can see it, I can make it. With one foul, nobody lives by that rule anymore. That does not mean that in very short order that todays players would not start shooting and making the shots that they pass up on now. And, as soon as they do, you are right back to where we are now. Not really any difference. Same essential game, just played a little differently. The main theme of it will still be runnout pool just like it is now. You will just see them shoot more banks and tougher shots than they have to now.

As far as spot shots, back then they could be a tester if one didn't know how to make them. Today, it takes all of five minutes to learn the "secret" to making them very, very consistently. It's a shot no pro should ever miss. Heck, one player made over a 1,000 in a row.
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There are vast differences when playing 'Two Shot Shoot Out' at the highest levels.
 
HawaiianEye said:
The TITLE of this thread says "TAR....." in it, doesn't it? If this was a TAR match, both the winner and loser get money from JCIN. The only other money they would have to think about WINNING or LOSING is UP to THEM with side bets Even if they didn't bet sky-high, the winner could have a profitable weekend. Better than sitting home and doing laundry.
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I actually made a similar thread not long ago about wanting to see CJ on TAR. Despite how I come across in this thread, I actually have a ton of respect for his game, and like you, would like to see how he would fair against some of the younger talent.

In that thread, Justin made it very clear that he has zero interest in having CJ on TAR.
 
CJ Wiley said:
That was if I gave him the break playing 9 Ball....I will give him the break, but will only bet $10 a game, and will only lose 50 games.

You can get the 5 and the break and I'll bet you $100 a game and lose 50 games.
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You are pretty consistent at throwing out games that you know won't be taken up to try and save face. You know I can't travel, or play much anymore. Even with that, if you want to play, come on up here, we can play at my house on my bar table, and I will take the break and give you the 5 ball. Being on disability, I will put up a whopping 200. That would hurt me if I were to go blind and lose. If you think that's not much $$, then put up an equiv-able amount of your funds to make it an even "hurt" to both sides. :D Or, you can just find that nut-sack you brag about and play Chris some even for a decent amount. But, you already stated that won't happen, excuse, excuse, excuse, translated- you know you can't win.;)
 
BeiberLvr said:
It should be obvious to you by now that no one is interested in your silly bet. So here's my suggestion.

Record a video (at least 2 hrs. in length) and go over the differences between the two games and put it on your website for a reasonable price to download or stream. I'll be the first in line to buy.
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sorry you feel that way
 
HawaiianEye said:
The TITLE of this thread says "TAR....." in it, doesn't it? If this was a TAR match, both the winner and loser get money from JCIN. The only other money they would have to think about WINNING or LOSING is UP to THEM with side bets Even if they didn't bet sky-high, the winner could have a profitable weekend. Better than sitting home and doing laundry.
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It's your thread, how did you miss that it's not going to happen on TAR?
 
HawaiianEye said:
It is a "SHOOTER'S" game...not a "DUCKER'S" game if you ask me. You can afford to shoot a shot and make a "recoverable" error if you fail to get position because you have the option to roll out if you don't like the shot. In one-foul, the majority of the people aren't going to go for the shot unless it is a LOCK...or they will "DUCK". Then it becomes "run a few", "duck", "get ball in hand", "run a few", "duck"...OVER and OVER and OVER.

In two-shot you not only have to think about where to roll out to, you also have to have figured out what you are going to do if he passes the shot back, before you even roll out. You don't just roll out "willy nilly" and hope he shoots it...you have to know what is going to happen if he don't.
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Not to mention the luck factor when comparing Texas express and two shot. You Always hear about the great shots made, but rarely hear about the good safety made. I think the majority appreciate great shot making, like happened a lot in 2 shot, way more than the ducking in one shot, where most go for nothing.
 
.I will have no future conversation with you......ever!

Neil said:
Or, you can just find that nut-sack you brag about and play Chris some even for a decent amount.
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You are vulgar, bitter, and creepy......I will have no future conversation with you......ever!
 
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