Pool is being Reborn

336Robin said:
It seems to me when I think about the threads I've paid attention to lately that: The BCA as far as players are concerned is non-existent and No One really wants the job of doing what they were supposed to do and that is support Pool. It also seems that Pro Pool is in the drink for the most part when you see a mass exodus of Promoters.

I would tend to think that Pool is being reborn regardless of how we feel about it and I start to think how many home tables there are and I think of what made me want to play in the first place as a kid.

It might be a little too much to ask that people open up small and private billiard clubs but I do see and opportunity for Table Manufacturers. I think we are entering into an era of the Bar Box. Its where a lot of us got started. Table Manufacturers want to sell pool tables. I think that Bar Boxes put in small stores where games are a dime or a quarter would ensure that people would see Pool as an alternative for entertainment once again.

I can't imagine a bunch of teenagers that would pass up the opportunity to have some fun if it were made cheap. I think if pool is made cheap to play that the game will reinvent itself from the bottom up and one day, possibly in my life time you will see pool and kids socializing with one another swing back into popularity. I think if we give them a reason, cheap to play, kids will play pool once again. I see pool as being something where kids go to a place to play on 1 bar box at a store and I see pool being fun again and a new interest in the game arising as Recreation.

How do you see the rebirth of pool happening?

Inquiring Minds want to know!!!
Click to expand...

We all like the idea of cheap pool unless of coarse we are people who have the establishment. i do not think 10 cent or 25 cent pool will pay the rent for the needed square footage unless the tables are busy all day every day. Cheap pool does not guarantee play. I see pool in retrograde with an eventual rebirth happening after it bottoms, we are still going down in my opinion.
 
bigshooter said:
The YMCA in our town has two nice tables and I see lots of kids playing pool. I do agree however that people of all ages are less social and stay at home a lot more.
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When I lived in Mesa the pool scene out there was hopping pretty good! Hell they even had a billiards news paper listing the local tourneys and articles about the who's who of the local pool world. I think Olhousen had the all round desert billiards tour going on and you could find a game just about any night of the week with just about any skill level player you wanted to play...I need to get out there again one of these days.
 
elvicash said:
We all like the idea of cheap pool unless of coarse we are people who have the establishment. i do not think 10 cent or 25 cent pool will pay the rent for the needed square footage unless the tables are busy all day every day. Cheap pool does not guarantee play. I see pool in retrograde with an eventual rebirth happening after it bottoms, we are still going down in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree with this...we have a quarter table (25 cent) at the VFW here. Granted its a private club for service members and vets witch cuts down on the amount of people that have access to the table, but for the most part when I go in there the table is empty and I end up playing the ghost. We do have a couple places with 50 cent tables but they are almost always vacant as well. The rest of the bars in town charge $1 per game...

How long does it take to play a game of 8-ball for a decent player? 5-7 min maybe? ...thats 8-12 bucks an hour (give or take) to play on a bar box if you continuously play... :eek:
 
I play in a couple leagues and most if not all the bar boxes in the surrounding area are $1.50 a game. Luckily the bar owner for the small independent 12 team local league I play in lets his team players practice for free at any time. He wants to win the league and subs on occasion. He loves it when he sees his players at the bar practicing, even if we aren't dropping a bunch of cash on drinks on a Saturday afternoon. The only bummer is the league stills plays the same crappy bar rules (no safeties allowed, no legal hit required, ball in the kitchen on scratches) that they have for 30 years. The other league run by a local billiard sales company is $1.50 a game everywhere and it seems like every bar we play at has some kind of obstruction of every table and they are not well taken care of either. Even more of a slap in the face, if there is more than one 8 ball break in a match you have to pay another $1.50 to get the 8 back. Anyway if a company is going to force bars to charge $1.50 a game the tables should play well. It's only a matter of time before they open up the last two coin slots and try to get $2.00 a game.
 
Quesports said:
Yes it is being reborn, but not in America. The future of pool is Asia, Europe and the Philippines.. JMO.....
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On an ITV4 broadcast of the Champion of Champions (snooker) a couple of days ago a commenter stated that Shanghai has more than 1500 snooker clubs.

The Chinese have started to play pool games on 9 ft. tables with snooker pockets.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=341568

So while the rest of the world is looking to play precision games, America is downsizing tables and expanding pockets, emphasizing that the skill of the American game is not in sinking the object ball, but in avoiding sewering the cue ball. :D

These trends suggest that America will become more uncompetitive in international play.
 
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Scaramouche said:
On an ITV4 broadcast of the Champion of Champions (snooker) a couple of days ago a commenter stated that Shanghai has more than 1500 snooker clubs.

The Chinese have started to play pool games on 9 ft. tables with snooker pockets.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=341568

So while the rest of the world is looking to play precision games, America is downsizing tables and expanding pockets, emphasizing that the skill of the American game is not in sinking the object ball, but in avoiding sewering the cue ball. :D

These trends suggest that America will become more uncompetitive in international play.
Click to expand...

Well you cant afford to scratch because the games cost so much, it might cost you the game!! Maybe its because we have no wages.
 
Scaramouche said:
On an ITV4 broadcast of the Champion of Champions (snooker) a couple of days ago a commenter stated that Shanghai has more than 1500 snooker clubs.

The Chinese have started to play pool games on 9 ft. tables with snooker pockets.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=341568

So while the rest of the world is looking to play precision games, America is downsizing tables and expanding pockets, emphasizing that the skill of the American game is not in sinking the object ball, but in avoiding sewering the cue ball. :D

These trends suggest that America will become more uncompetitive in international play.
Click to expand...

You would have to know what the context of that comment. They may call anything with even one table a "Snooker club". The last time I was in europe you would see signs that made it look like snooker or pool was the feature draw. Then you go in and find two tables in a back room of a pub.
If you considered every bar in the US with a table as a pool room there would be a lot also.

Also, the snooker pockets are not some grand new idea and have been there for a long time. Other then American tables that are imported, the pool tables there have had snooker type pockets for many years. You would go in a bar in England and would find a small bar table with snooker pockets. I found that in most of the countries over there. I guess the tables were built by companies that build snooker tables and that is the way they build them.

I remember playing on one in Italy (bar table) that had pockets so small you could hardly get the ball in, like a golf table.
 
Five years ago
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/snooker/7356512.stm

In China, snooker is second only to basketball in the nation's sporting affections

Approximately 50m people play snooker in China and in Beijing alone there are 300 venues.

And to make a winner out of your son, sell out and open a snooker club
http://www.scmp.com/article/587310/snookers-new-teen-star-cue-make-millions

'I sold my business, opened a snooker club and that way I could reserve a table for my son at any time."
 
Does anybody find it ironic that pool is booming in china and our kids here in the states are consumed by ps3 and xboxes!! Maybe Sony should manufacture pool tables !
 
The commercial bubble bursting will have a huge effect on rents.. The issue is there is a closed door agreement that banks do not foreclose right now on commercial if you can do anything that will keep tenants in the buildings...

This has been sitting on the back eye of the stove for several years now and should boil over at some point....

Look around your areas at all of the vacant buildings and for lease signs... The market is being artificially propped up and as such pool rooms are still having to deal with landlords trying to jack the rent first chance they get..

I was looking at taking over a room in town that was 12000 sq ft... The rent was 12000 a month... It has a dollar general and now a thrift shop in the strip mall but they had no intentions of trying to come to a realistic number... The room now sits empty and likely will stay that way until a new church starts up and leases the space....

I keep looking around Knoxville and while more and more buildings become vacant the lease per sq ft won't seem to budge... Maybe the high property taxes are a hindrance but at some point with no tenants the property HAS to devalue but good luck on having the city/county lower an assessment... My house went up again this year... Bout 40k more than it's worth but hey that's how they do it.....
 
Too Big

The Renfro said:
The commercial bubble bursting will have a huge effect on rents.. The issue is there is a closed door agreement that banks do not foreclose right now on commercial if you can do anything that will keep tenants in the buildings...

This has been sitting on the back eye of the stove for several years now and should boil over at some point....

Look around your areas at all of the vacant buildings and for lease signs... The market is being artificially propped up and as such pool rooms are still having to deal with landlords trying to jack the rent first chance they get..

I was looking at taking over a room in town that was 12000 sq ft... The rent was 12000 a month... It has a dollar general and now a thrift shop in the strip mall but they had no intentions of trying to come to a realistic number... The room now sits empty and likely will stay that way until a new church starts up and leases the space....

I keep looking around Knoxville and while more and more buildings become vacant the lease per sq ft won't seem to budge... Maybe the high property taxes are a hindrance but at some point with no tenants the property HAS to devalue but good luck on having the city/county lower an assessment... My house went up again this year... Bout 40k more than it's worth but hey that's how they do it.....
Click to expand...

Renfro,
A room like you just described just closed here. You would have to have a lot of action to bring people in to pay for that. I just see pool going the opposite direction. I think a guy who has a room wide enough for Pool Tables, where he sits in the back all day reading the paper, watching tv, and playing on the computer has a chance and no one else does. He doesn't have to have a lot of overhead and he can still get the same few players everyone seems to be competing for.

I think the situation you describe with real estate lends itself to the concept of make it a small local place to hangout almost like a Senior Center with tables, a refridgerator, a coffee pot, maybe sell some crackers, drinks and if you get aggressive a cold sandwich or microwave pizza.

Maybe beer comes in but you start losing your youth and now its a bar. I don't see bars keeping pool alive any more, not in the long run. Not unless kids get involved. Definitely beer would be as much as one could do on the alcohol scene.

If landlords wanted to keep the rent going someone would rather have rent than not. You just have to be willing to say no, I cant pay that much...someone is going to say ok.
 
336Robin said:
It seems to me when I think about the threads I've paid attention to lately that: The BCA as far as players are concerned is non-existent and No One really wants the job of doing what they were supposed to do and that is support Pool. It also seems that Pro Pool is in the drink for the most part when you see a mass exodus of Promoters.

I would tend to think that Pool is being reborn regardless of how we feel about it and I start to think how many home tables there are and I think of what made me want to play in the first place as a kid.

It might be a little too much to ask that people open up small and private billiard clubs but I do see and opportunity for Table Manufacturers. I think we are entering into an era of the Bar Box. Its where a lot of us got started. Table Manufacturers want to sell pool tables. I think that Bar Boxes put in small stores where games are a dime or a quarter would ensure that people would see Pool as an alternative for entertainment once again.

I can't imagine a bunch of teenagers that would pass up the opportunity to have some fun if it were made cheap. I think if pool is made cheap to play that the game will reinvent itself from the bottom up and one day, possibly in my life time you will see pool and kids socializing with one another swing back into popularity. I think if we give them a reason, cheap to play, kids will play pool once again. I see pool as being something where kids go to a place to play on 1 bar box at a store and I see pool being fun again and a new interest in the game arising as Recreation.

How do you see the rebirth of pool happening?

Inquiring Minds want to know!!!
Click to expand...

I personally dislike the thought of this, as I love playing on the 9ft tables :thumb up:

HOWEVER - the bar box is probably the most expansive way for pool to gain commercial and financial gain in the USA. :thumbup:
Often enough, the things that make us sad are the things that are true.
I for one would rather see pool thrive under bar box than swim with the fish...

Personal choice, personal decision, personal gain do not drive and push forward successful enterprises.
 
336Robin said:
PeteyPoolDude,
I grew up with kids surrounding a bar box putting up quarters for the excitement of taking on the winners and to me this was the action in pool. It was alive and people were there to make it come alive and this is what I would like to see recreated because the sport needs something to make it come alive and I find it interesting that in this rough economic environment that we cycle back to the basics of everything because cheap table time seems to work for promoting interests and I don't think the condition of the cloth or the balls matter much to a bunch of kids that might learn to love the game.
Click to expand...

I, just this past Wednesday, left a bar when they closed the free table. I didn't want to put $1 a game into it for bar play. I can go home and play for free.

With more home tables, leagues, and man-caves providing cheaper play, maybe $1 bar play might have been priced out of the market?

Jeff Livingston
 
The Home Market

chefjeff said:
I, just this past Wednesday, left a bar when they closed the free table. I didn't want to put $1 a game into it for bar play. I can go home and play for free.

With more home tables, leagues, and man-caves providing cheaper play, maybe $1 bar play might have been priced out of the market?

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Jeff,
I think that pool has become the new darts in a lot of aspects. The only way to get people to play is make in cheap enough that to be is very clear but they will because in these times people really need a value for their money. They wont care what the cloth is like if the time is cheap. Its called entertainment. If we were competing for the rich guys money that might be a problem. The real problem is that we aren't and there aren't as many rich guys playing pool. They are on the golf course.

Yes $1 a game pool is done in my opinion, unless you want to stare at a table and serve no drinks.
 
336Robin said:
Jeff,
I think that pool has become the new darts in a lot of aspects. The only way to get people to play is make in cheap enough that to be is very clear but they will because in these times people really need a value for their money. They wont care what the cloth is like if the time is cheap. Its called entertainment. If we were competing for the rich guys money that might be a problem. The real problem is that we aren't and there aren't as many rich guys playing pool. They are on the golf course.

Yes $1 a game pool is done in my opinion, unless you want to stare at a table and serve no drinks.
Click to expand...

The market is what it is, that's for sure.

You brought up golf. That game is subsidized by most local governments while pool is punished most often via zoning, dui crap, child laws, smoking laws, liquor laws, ad naseum. It's hard to compete inside a fixed market. It's no wonder pool has a problem competing with such things. Add in skool sports, soccer fields, baseball diamonds, football, basketball courts, etc. ALL subsidized by local governments, and the problem of competing for entertainment dollars mounts. Perhaps first reducing some of these market restrictions would help.

Jeff Livingston
 
I have been to many many pool rooms over the years
And yes we all prefer to play on the best keept equipment
We can , and rent rate and location , and food
are important .but the most IMPORTANT THING IS THE Help.
They make or break you . I would rather play on very old cloth
With level tables and great employees than brand
New cloth and rude ungrateful and unpleasant
Help. Aside from pool you can fill a bar every
afternoon with pleasant friendly attractive and engaging
Wait staff that knows your name and calls you by
Name after your first time
 
Pool the new darts

chefjeff said:
The market is what it is, that's for sure.

You brought up golf. That game is subsidized by most local governments while pool is punished most often via zoning, dui crap, child laws, smoking laws, liquor laws, ad naseum. It's hard to compete inside a fixed market. It's no wonder pool has a problem competing with such things. Add in skool sports, soccer fields, baseball diamonds, football, basketball courts, etc. ALL subsidized by local governments, and the problem of competing for entertainment dollars mounts. Perhaps first reducing some of these market restrictions would help.

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Jeff
In theory I agree but realistically those things probably wont change and that's reality. The simple solution is cheaper pool and make it a draw to keep drinkers drinking and let them worry about the dwi which is a real concern on a lot of levels which is why pool is where it is unfortunately and it sgoing to change Im sure.
 
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