Alternate Break at Mosconi Cup

JMD in VA

JMD in VA

It's All Good!
Silver Member
Does anyone else feel the alternate break also played a factor in Team USA's loss?

I feel that many of Team USA's players are rhythm players and it's really difficult to get into a rhythm with alternate breaks.


There are many other factors that went towards this loss but this is one I have been thinking about and don't recall anyone bringing up over the last few days.

What say you?
 
Nope, the frustration and the effect of making zero on the briz made complainers out of some players. I've always thought when a ship is sinking, who has the right to complain when everyone is going to drown, shows weakness and lack of....Allot.
 
I hate alternate break.
High run?.......a one-pack.:rolleyes:
When you're behind in a match....you're basically toast.

With winner break...you always feel you got a chance....
...one missed ball can turn it around.
And when you got a big lead at winner break.....
...you can still hear them footsteps.
 
pt109 said:
I hate alternate break.
High run?.......a one-pack.:rolleyes:
When you're behind in a match....you're basically toast.

With winner break...you always feel you got a chance....
...one missed ball can turn it around.
And when you got a big lead at winner break.....
...you can still hear them footsteps.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but wasn't it the players that chose the break box?
 
Island Drive said:
I could be wrong, but wasn't it the players that chose the break box?
Click to expand...

Bill,

Using the break box or not should not be that big of a deal at their level. They have broke racks from the rail and with their hand on the table. They will figure out a way to make balls. The US Open has changed break rules over the years; granted the break box has never been this small. The only one we can confirm for USA that practices their break religiously is Shane. This article on AZ talks about the break.
http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/10674-mosconi-cups-break-rules-set-to-change/

The European Captain mentions that his team "will relish the opportunity to perfect these new conditions."

To me, the alternate break does not give players the opportunity to string racks along. I don't remember if alternate break has always been used in the Mosconi Cup but it has prevented any team that has gotten behind in the race quickly to mount a comeback.

This could also be said about the change from plain doubles to scotch doubles (which has been a change) but that's another thread for another time.
 
JMD in VA said:
Bill,

Using the break box or not should not be that big of a deal at their level. They have broke racks from the rail and with their hand on the table. They will figure out a way to make balls. The US Open has changed break rules over the years; granted the break box has never been this small. The only one we can confirm for USA that practices their break religiously is Shane. This article on AZ talks about the break.
http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/10674-mosconi-cups-break-rules-set-to-change/

The European Captain mentions that his team "will relish the opportunity to perfect these new conditions."

To me, the alternate break does not give players the opportunity to string racks along. I don't remember if alternate break has always been used in the Mosconi Cup but it has prevented any team that has gotten behind in the race quickly to mount a comeback.

This could also be said about the change from plain doubles to scotch doubles (which has been a change) but that's another thread for another time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but didn't they combine that with the 9 racked ''on the spot''?
 
pt109 said:
I like the small break box.

It's the alternate break I'm whining about.
:crying::crying::crying:

:)
Click to expand...

With a race to 5 or even 6, winner break can be one inning. With how Neils played against Johnny, I think the only thing Johnny would have done his match would be lag, and then shake hands at the end if it was winner break.

Maybe do a 2 break each instead of one.

What I think the issue was (on both sides but the US took the brunt of no good shots on a dry break) is the 9 on the spot and regular rack being used with no cut break. What gave the Sardo era fits even with the 9 on the spot was the fact that it created a very setup rack and being able to break in any way ended up with a dead ball in the rack anyway.

Regular rack, 1 on the spot, no checking the rack with ref racking, alternate break (or take two breaks), hit hard. Good rules for shorter races.

You could see the US players getting pissed about the break not doing anything and just leaving outs for the Euros, they started really hitting the rack hoping the 9 would fall or something would bounce around enough to get lucky.
 
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Island Drive said:
Yeah, but didn't they combine that with the 9 racked ''on the spot''?
Click to expand...

9 on the spot has been that way since 2011.
Another dumb rule.

If they did, 1 on the spot, 2 in the back and winner breaks; it would be better.

One thing this format does prove is that Europe works better in this team format. It's not an exhibition to them; it is just like any other tournament.

The closest thing we would have to this kind of camaraderie if we had guys that were on the road together for a while and then were chosen to join the Mosconi Cup team. They have eaten and starved from match to match.

When you look at the teams we fielded in the 90's most of those guys were on the road together; that's one of the reasons they played so well together.
 
JMD in VA said:
Does anyone else feel the alternate break also played a factor in Team USA's loss?

I feel that many of Team USA's players are rhythm players and it's really difficult to get into a rhythm with alternate breaks.


There are many other factors that went towards this loss but this is one I have been thinking about and don't recall anyone bringing up over the last few days.

What say you?
Click to expand...

The break had nothing to do with bad position and missed balls on easy run outs.

But to make the matches more fair, I like it when looser breaks.:thumbup:



I love to win a match without getting out my break cue.:grin:


While watching the matches live, I felt frustrated and let down. But when I watched the replay on YouTube, I felt different. Team USA shot against a great, consistent team of great players.

I was in shock though when Team USA played scotch doubles. A good scotch doubles team never needs to talk between shots...especially at the pro level.:frown:
 
JMD in VA said:
9 on the spot has been that way since 2011.
Another dumb rule.

If they did, 1 on the spot, 2 in the back and winner breaks; it would be better.

One thing this format does prove is that Europe works better in this team format. It's not an exhibition to them; it is just like any other tournament.

The closest thing we would have to this kind of camaraderie if we had guys that were on the road together for a while and then were chosen to join the Mosconi Cup team. They have eaten and starved from match to match.

When you look at the teams we fielded in the 90's most of those guys were on the road together; that's one of the reasons they played so well together.
Click to expand...

Better how?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I think it's hard to use Winner Breaks in a race to 6. Lose the lag and you might be down 4-0 before ever getting to the table.

Would you rather be down 4-0 with your opponent breaking, or down 3-1 with your break?

Personally, I like alternate break with a race to 13 or 15. But that doesn't work in the Mosconi Cup production format.
 
JMD in VA said:
9 on the spot has been that way since 2011.
Another dumb rule.

If they did, 1 on the spot, 2 in the back and winner breaks; it would be better.

One thing this format does prove is that Europe works better in this team format. It's not an exhibition to them; it is just like any other tournament.

The closest thing we would have to this kind of camaraderie if we had guys that were on the road together for a while and then were chosen to join the Mosconi Cup team. They have eaten and starved from match to match.

When you look at the teams we fielded in the 90's most of those guys were on the road together; that's one of the reasons they played so well together.
Click to expand...

And the Europeans also have the Great Snooker players to ''learn what is right and wrong'' when they are learning their trade in their youth.
 
Some clarifications:

They have been gradually bringing the rack higher and higher every year,
it was north of the spot since like... 2002.

Only 5% of all the games were break and runs.
The other 95% of the time, both teams got a chance.
It may have only been a single kick, but still it's a chance.
Often there were extra chances you wouldn't normally expect, due to the 'dog factor'.

There's no "I'm so far behind I can't possibly catch up!"
It's a short race and you're almost definitely getting out of your chair on every rack.

Both teams played with a "gentleman's agreement" to do a hit-hard-n-hope break
instead of a controlled break trying to make the 1 in the side.
So break success took a huge drop.

As for whether this hurt team USA's chances... I dunno. Earl's a quick rhythm player,
Rodney too, and Shane speeds as he shoots better. But based on the stats AtLarge posted,
it looks like our biggest downfall is how we handled the rack after our own dry breaks.
We dropped the ball on winnable games. And Europe got out when it was supposed to
after our dry breaks, but we'd do silly stuff like get the wrong angle or get hooked.
 
bdorman said:
I think it's hard to use Winner Breaks in a race to 6. Lose the lag and you might be down 4-0 before ever getting to the table.

Would you rather be down 4-0 with your opponent breaking, or down 3-1 with your break?

Personally, I like alternate break with a race to 13 or 15. But that doesn't work in the Mosconi Cup production format.
Click to expand...

Well my break stinks so it really wouldn't matter. :grin:

If they had to do short races like this, I think it would be better with 2 out of 3 sets determined the point.
 
How about loser breaks to keep scores close. thats better for the struggling players to let them back in the match. Blow outs are only good for the winning player.
 
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