Why is the APA so frowned upon?

[lorider]

I agree on the APA Masters points. They just restarted Masters in our area this past session and we formed a team. I enjoyed consistently playing against good players. I enjoyed getting home earlier. I enjoyed the format. I only won one match but learned a lot and consistently got better. If there were a second night of Masters, I'd bag the regular APA and only play Masters.

My primary ***** about regular APA is how long it takes and subsequently getting home really late. This is the major complaint with lots of people and I think holds some people back from playing in an APA league. IMHO, speeding up play should be the number one focus of APA for the purpose of growing their membership. It could be fixed with the right degree of focus. At least an hour per night is wasted needlessly. The biggest waste of time is the most frustrating to me because it is totally unnecessary. One match finishes. Takes up to 10 minutes sometimes for the team who puts up to do so. Then that player has to be found, usually outside having a cigarette. Then he has to come in and get all his equipment out of case and assembled. Just stupid. I think this could be solved by setting all the match ups prior to the beginning of play. The two Captains could just go back and forth with their respective turns and have that set by league start time. They could have a rule that anybody not ready to play within 2 minutes following the end of a match forfeits. Limit time outs to one minute in length.

I think the sandbagging thing is over rated. Part of the problem is the difference in leagues and another part is score keeping. Part of handicapping is the relative strength of play. Strong league, lower handicaps. Not sure if there is much to be done about that. Most scorekeepers are rather clueless about marking defensive shots and doing so isn't emphasized, not doing so isn't penalized.

At the end of the day, it's real simple. If you don't like APA, don't play in it. But why constantly find the need to complain about it? Despite some of the negatives, APA does have a lot of positives. It gets a lot of people playing pool. Many of the pool players complaining about APA might end up very unhappy if APA no longer existed and that subsequently caused a further downsizing of pool in the country. Many of the smaller bars love APA and the revenue it brings into their establishment. They do a number of things to cater to APA. If not for APA, those bars may not even exist or may replace their pool tables with bar stools.

Why bother complaining about payouts? I don't know anybody that got rich being big winners in BCA or any other amateur league. Seriously, you're playing a certain league because you get $100 or so more per session? When you consider the number of hours you put in and then figure out what that nets you on a hourly rate, that's outright laughable.

good post.

i play 2 apa divisions... sun night double jeapordy and tue night 8 ball travel.

we start at 7:00 on sun night and are usually done by 10:30 with both 8 and 9 ball.

for some reason my tue night league drags on forever. we start at 7:30 and usually it ends about 11:30 .that is with starting a 2nd table if we are not finished with the 4th match by 10:00.

looking at it strictly time wise tue night only lasts 1/2 hour longer . i guess it just seems a lot longer because you just sit around watching 1 match at a time. sun night seems to go by fast since you plat 2 matches and its just more going on during that time vs watching 1 match at a time.

i may try masters again next summer... just got too much going on right now.

like i said i did enjoy playing in it 2 years ago even though i was only a 4 at the time. i may enjoy it a lil better now since i am a lil better player than i was then.

 

[lorider]

Spot on. I've never played Masters so I can't give any feedback on that, but everything else you said I've found to be accurate. This is my 2nd session ever in APA, and despite all the stuff I've read on these forums I actually enjoy it quite a bit. I think anybody would that doesn't try to make it into something that it isn't. It also helps when you like all of your teammates. The matches do seem to take longer than they should. I think one of the biggest things is more than just not being ready to play their matches, but also not paying attention when they are playing. For example if two lower SLs are playing it's obvious that one of them isn't exactly going to run out so there really is no need to sit down between shots, turn your back to the table, talk to your friends etc. Also, the defensive shots thing tilts me a little too. I pretty much have to always tell the scorekeeper when I play a defensive shot unless our 6 or 7 is keeping score. I'm not sure what could be done to make defensive shot scoring better, but I'm sure something would be better than how it's currently done.

good attitude. :thumbup:

yea proper scoring has always been one of my pet peeves.the thing i stress to my scorekeepers if its not an obvious offensinse shot you gotta mark it defense.

one captain in my sun league takes defense marking to extremes though.

let me tell you about mine and his conversation.

i am playing him 8 ball and have 2 balls left. 1 is a hanger in a corner and the other is against the rail about 2 diamonds up. i knew i could get the hanger but the cue ball would likely get hung up behind his balls.

the cue ball was in a good position to try a cross side bank that i felt 90% certain i could make and leave me easy on my last ball. well would'nt you know i rattled the pocket on my bank and he tells his scorekeeper to mark a defense on me.

i told him that was not defense since i made an honest effort to bank it. he says i passed up an obvious makeable ball so that was a defensive shoti said what if i had made the bank would it still be defense? he said no. well then you cant mark it one way if i make it and ab nother way if i dont.

he says i know what you were trying he said if you shot the hanger you would be hooked and probably give me ball in hand. you elected to try a bank .. passing up an easy hanger to avoid giving me bih thats defense in my book.

i said whatever ... mark it anyway you want then i am still gonna win this match lol.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

good attitude. :thumbup:

yea proper scoring has always been one of my pet peeves.the thing i stress to my scorekeepers if its not an obvious offensinse shot you gotta mark it defense.

one captain in my sun league takes defense marking to extremes though.

let me tell you about mine and his conversation.

i am playing him 8 ball and have 2 balls left. 1 is a hanger in a corner and the other is against the rail about 2 diamonds up. i knew i could get the hanger but the cue ball would likely get hung up behind his balls.

the cue ball was in a good position to try a cross side bank that i felt 90% certain i could make and leave me easy on my last ball. well would'nt you know i rattled the pocket on my bank and he tells his scorekeeper to mark a defense on me.

i told him that was not defense since i made an honest effort to bank it. he says i passed up an obvious makeable ball so that was a defensive shoti said what if i had made the bank would it still be defense? he said no. well then you cant mark it one way if i make it and ab nother way if i dont.

he says i know what you were trying he said if you shot the hanger you would be hooked and probably give me ball in hand. you elected to try a bank .. passing up an easy hanger to avoid giving me bih thats defense in my book.

i said whatever ... mark it anyway you want then i am still gonna win this match lol.

Yeah in my opinion that is just as bad as not marking defense on obvious safeties. How could it possibly be defense when you were trying to make a ball and run out? That doesn't meet any definition of defense in pool ever.

 

[trob]

The APA is only frowned upon bu those that are not skilled enough to play in a handicapped league.......................

Kim

What lol that's the silliest thing I've read in a while. anyone is skilled enough to win in a handicapp league ...that's why it's handicapp. Bca is frowned upon by our Apa players because there not good enough to win without a spot.

 

[trob]

it seems that way don't it.

I frown upon it and I'm a 9 with over a 70 percent win percentage. Lol yeah I guess I'm not good enough to win in Apa. Hahaha. Oh Apa people your so funny

 

[trob]

I can handle losing...it's what pushes me to get better. Been playing even just about my whole life, don't see any reason to quit now. I know I'm not pro level, so no delusions.

Ding ding ding. Winner!!! Losing is not a bad thing. Playing good players even up isn't a bad thing!! It's how you measure your ability And should put the fire in your belly to get better.

I don't hate Apa I just think it's a double edged sword. It gets people playing pool and hopefully spending cash on equipment and fueling the industry. That's a good thing. I just don't like that it penalizes people for getting better to the point that many (not all) don't try to get better because they want to keep there team together. I've plenty is 2s and 3s that flat out don't want to get better to save there team or captains that don't help players for that reason also. The 23 rule in 9 ball makes it hard to keep a team together.

 

[lorider]

What lol that's the silliest thing I've read in a while. anyone is skilled enough to win in a handicapp league ...that's why it's handicapp. Bca is frowned upon by our Apa players because there not good enough to win without a spot.

maybe i am just as guilty of painting people in certain leagues with a broad stroke just as you are. i see you are anout the same speed as my sun night co -captain who is a 9 with a 70%win record...pretty good , congratulations .

i dont hate any league and can play by any rules...even bar rules as long as we are on the same page.

last year i was playing in 4 different leagues a week before i just got wore out ...holding a full time job plus getting up in age. the 1st league i ever joined was bcapl. i really did not like the format at 1st " round robin ..and playing for points but i grew to like it.

i got out of pool for a few years and when i met a girl who wanted me to join her league i agreed and was suprised it was apa. i asked around what happened to bcapl and lets just say people did not have kind words about the lo.

a lil while back i thought about starting a bcapl league here and i got the the same comments over and over when i talked to people ....they dont like the format and some are still pissed about what went down .bottom line is people prefer to match up in a race instead of playing every one on the other team once... much like real pool. and believe it or not quite a few complained about the sandbagging in bcapl lol.

 

[trob]

We don't have a bca handy Capp league here. Its a straight tip league. You win or you don't lol no spots given.

maybe i am just as guilty of painting people in certain leagues with a broad stroke just as you are. i see you are anout the same speed as my sun night co -captain who is a 9 with a 70%win record...pretty good , congratulations .

i dont hate any league and can play by any rules...even bar rules as long as we are on the same page.

last year i was playing in 4 different leagues a week before i just got wore out ...holding a full time job plus getting up in age. the 1st league i ever joined was bcapl. i really did not like the format at 1st " round robin ..and playing for points but i grew to like it.

i got out of pool for a few years and when i met a girl who wanted me to join her league i agreed and was suprised it was apa. i asked around what happened to bcapl and lets just say people did not have kind words about the lo.

a lil while back i thought about starting a bcapl league here and i got the the same comments over and over when i talked to people ....they dont like the format and some are still pissed about what went down .bottom line is people prefer to match up in a race instead of playing every one on the other team once... much like real pool. and believe it or not quite a few complained about the sandbagging in bcapl lol.

 

[lorider]

Ding ding ding. Winner!!! Losing is not a bad thing. Playing good players even up isn't a bad thing!! It's how you measure your ability And should put the fire in your belly to get better.

I don't hate Apa I just think it's a double edged sword. It gets people playing pool and hopefully spending cash on equipment and fueling the industry. That's a good thing. I just don't like that it penalizes people for getting better to the point that many (not all) don't try to get better because they want to keep there team together. I've plenty is 2s and 3s that flat out don't want to get better to save there team or captains that don't help players for that reason also. The 23 rule in 9 ball makes it hard to keep a team together.

i agree its a double edge sword. my team is like a revolving door. i have to get a couple new players every session for one reason or another. new job, moving outa town and oh yea moving up in s/l.

how bout sending me a couple of those 2's and 3's.that don't wanna move up? every one i get cant wait to be raised lol. it makes it hard to play my 9 all the time but i rather play him than me when we need the win. i am in danger of moving up to a 6 with a 68% win record this session with my last 3 wins being a score of 18-2 against 2 - 5's and 17-3 against a 7.if anybody on the team gets moved up before the end of the session we are screwed.

 

[lorider]

We don't have a bca handy Capp league here. Its a straight tip league. You win or you don't lol no spots given.

is it round robin ?

round robin format is my biggest gripe about bcapl. you only play every one once.

that means some break 3 times and some break 2. if you are one of the players that breaks 2 times and your opponents all put break and runs on you that means you only get to the table twice that night.

as far as the rules go i can live with them. actually the rules make me think i am a better player than i really am. i get at least 1 break and run every night i play bcapl rules :grin-square:where i might get 1 or 2 break and runs a whole session playing apa.

 

[trob]

Nope. A team plays 20 games in a night. It's broken up into 4 sets of 5 games. You can only play once per set and can't play the same person twice.

is it round robin ?

round robin format is my biggest gripe about bcapl. you only play every one once.

that means some break 3 times and some break 2. if you are one of the players that breaks 2 times and your opponents all put break and runs on you that means you only get to the table twice that night.

as far as the rules go i can live with them. actually the rules make me think i am a better player than i really am. i get at least 1 break and run every night i play bcapl rules :grin-square:where i might get 1 or 2 break and runs a whole session playing apa.

 

[trob]

i agree its a double edge sword. my team is like a revolving door. i have to get a couple new players every session for one reason or another. new job, moving outa town and oh yea moving up in s/l.

how bout sending me a couple of those 2's and 3's.that don't wanna move up? every one i get cant wait to be raised lol. it makes it hard to play my 9 all the time but i rather play him than me when we need the win. i am in danger of moving up to a 6 with a 68% win record this session with my last 3 wins being a score of 18-2 against 2 - 5's and 17-3 against a 7.if anybody on the team gets moved up before the end of the session we are screwed.

Think about your team. You win tri cups in the first session. It's tough to keep the same team to compete to go to Vegas 10 months later when you play in ltc! No one can quit. Handy caps need to stay close to the same! That's hard without having some terrible players or sand baggers lol

 

[lorider]

Think about your team. You win tri cups in the first session. It's tough to keep the same team to compete to go to Vegas 10 months later when you play in ltc! No one can quit. Handy caps need to stay close to the same! That's hard without having some terrible players or sand baggers lol

that reminds me i got to check into something.

in our area we are automatically qualified for this next city championship by virtue of coming in 2nd in last years cities.... we dont have have to win playoffs or tri cups or anything..just go straight to cities ..this is 8 ball. we only have 4 members remaining from that team. i got to see if my new members are qualified or what the deal is.

we won 9 ball last year and went to vegas so we have to qualify for cities all over again.havent qualified yet...hope to win the last tri cup.:grin-square:

 

[lorider]

Nope. A team plays 20 games in a night. It's broken up into 4 sets of 5 games. You can only play once per set and can't play the same person twice.

how do you come up with that number ?

we played 5 man teams with 5 sets. you played everyone on the other team once for a total of 5 games each player that night. as i stated earlier some get to break 3 times out of 5 and and the other 2 only break twice. the 3 best players on the team were always chosen to break 3 times given they were more apt to run out.

i was always one of those chosen to break twice and usually managed to get 1 break and run.

as i have stated on here before ... open break makes it so much easier for a b&r. the 1or 2 b&r i get each session in apa mean a lot more to me because they are harder to accomplish.

 

[trob]

that reminds me i got to check into something.

in our area we are automatically qualified for this next city championship by virtue of coming in 2nd in last years cities.... we dont have have to win playoffs or tri cups or anything..just go straight to cities ..this is 8 ball. we only have 4 members remaining from that team. i got to see if my new members are qualified or what the deal is.

we won 9 ball last year and went to vegas so we have to qualify for cities all over again.havent qualified yet...hope to win the last tri cup.:grin-square:

Nope. That's the problem. You can only play with who you won with. Period

 

[trob]

I don't know how to explain it. It's not round robin. You may have 8 guys in your team and not the same 5 playing every set. In the first set one teams breAks all 5 racks and then in the next set the other teams breaks all 5. You only play one game against someone each set.

how do you come up with that number ?

we played 5 man teams with 5 sets. you played everyone on the other team once for a total of 5 games each player that night. as i stated earlier some get to break 3 times out of 5 and and the other 2 only break twice. the 3 best players on the team were always chosen to break 3 times given they were more apt to run out.

i was always one of those chosen to break twice and usually managed to get 1 break and run.

as i have stated on here before ... open break makes it so much easier for a b&r. the 1or 2 b&r i get each session in apa mean a lot more to me because they are harder to accomplish.

 

[bigshooter]

Local room on APA nights = wait to get a table.
Local room any other night = take your pick.

Yeah the APA is really bad for pool.

 

[Cory in DC]

Nope. That's the problem. You can only play with who you won with. Period

That's not correct. You have to play with the team roster as of the end of the Spring season; you also have to have 5 of the original players on the roster, but can change the other 3.

 

[trob]

That's not correct. You have to play with the team roster as of the end of the Spring season; you also have to have 5 of the original players on the roster, but can change the other 3.

well we lost half our players due to moving or work and the lo said sorry about our luck but you can only play with who you won tri cups with.. but I'm not an apa expert.

 

[justadub]

well we lost half our players due to moving or work and the lo said sorry about our luck but you can only play with who you won tri cups with.. but I'm not an apa expert.

Here, we have to have at least four members of the team that won tri cups remain on the team.

The team that I'm now the captain of...I joined after they had already qualified for states, along with two others at the same time.

Still doesn't make it easy at times, but it is workable.