Why is the APA so frowned upon?
- Thread starter Magyar19
- Start date
i played bcapl 8 years ago and left dissatisfied ...see how that works.
your continued disparaging remarks about all other leagues in every thread you pop up in is getting old. let me clue you in on something... you don't have to tear other leagues down while trying to build your league up. that is a big turnoff to me. if tap was available in my area i would not join it just based on the principle of the attitude you 2 supposed spokesmen display in this thread.
if you 2 were more like the napa lo in my area i might have a different attitude towards tap. you see i play napa and apa. i am captain of teams in both leagues. it just so happens that the napa lo is the co captain of my apa team and also plays apa masters. the 2 lo's get along great and have respect for each other.
now i ain't suggesting you and sam join other leagues besides tap but if you 2 were to show a lil more class and respect towards other leagues you might not catch the flack you are in this thread.
your claims about how many new members tap has brought in is as outlandish as your disparaging remarks towards other leagues.
Not ripping anyone. I guess well just have to agree to disagree. Good Luck in NAPA and APA.
Not ripping anyone. I guess well just have to agree to disagree. Good Luck in NAPA and APA.
well it seemed pretty obvious you have been ripping apa in this thread and another one also.
oh yea.... merry christmas .
it seems that way don't it.
well it seemed pretty obvious you have been ripping apa in this thread and another one also.
oh yea.... merry christmas .
Hardly...Merry Christmas to you too!
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Regarding Points b and c:
B.What is wrong with having to mark your pocket? Leaves no question as to where you are shooting. Lord knows how many arguments could have been prevented over the years in pool if pockets were marked.
C. You mean like if you make a 3-9 carom, and leave balls 4-8 on the table?
I don't play because I'm not sandbagging for anyone. If I can't play even, then I'm not playing. Pretty simple.
well then you would like apa masters.
my 1st match ever in masters was a reality check on how i need to stay in a handicapped league.
i lost 9-0. lol
I don't see a lot of sandbagging. Just bad players who don't care to take the time to get better because they can't afford to or the 23 rule....especially in 9 ball..will tear your team apart. I mean I don't know how you can win the first session tricups and then have anything but a shadow of that same team by the time lcs comes around a year later. difficult to say the least.
TAP has its own problems as well. Admittedly, locally here it is ran MUCH better than APA, and the preferred handicap league. The new score keeper app is also pretty cool and works well from the few times I've been able to try it out..
But, there is way too much favoritism going on in TAP at the National level. If your League Operator isn't part of the TAP inner circle/clique, you will eventually get screwed in some way or another.... TAP needs to find a way to distance it's Local/Regional League operators from National events, and more specifically, rulings on issues that arise at National events.. They need to be viewed as impartial in the eyes of their members, and right now they are not.. They also need to reply and offer an explained answer when a grievance or complaint is filed.. At this year's National Event in Chicago, several requests for handicap audits, filed before the tournament and by the deadline, simply were ignored without an offered explanation. I was also informed that an official complaint was filed against TAP 's "inability to run a fair and equitable National Tournament", which involved the 9-ball Tournament winning team.. Nothing has been heard of it since. No explanation, ruling, or even an apology (if TAP was deemed to be in fact in error)... I understand their natural desire to sweep issues under the rug and keep things internal, but not offering a ruling or simply an explanation for for things, looks VERY bad. This is NOT the first time this has happened with TAP at a National event, and transparency is sorely needed..
I have nothing against TAP or APA, but all I am saying is that they BOTH have their problems and issues...
But, there is way too much favoritism going on in TAP at the National level. If your League Operator isn't part of the TAP inner circle/clique, you will eventually get screwed in some way or another.... TAP needs to find a way to distance it's Local/Regional League operators from National events, and more specifically, rulings on issues that arise at National events.. They need to be viewed as impartial in the eyes of their members, and right now they are not.. They also need to reply and offer an explained answer when a grievance or complaint is filed.. At this year's National Event in Chicago, several requests for handicap audits, filed before the tournament and by the deadline, simply were ignored without an offered explanation. I was also informed that an official complaint was filed against TAP 's "inability to run a fair and equitable National Tournament", which involved the 9-ball Tournament winning team.. Nothing has been heard of it since. No explanation, ruling, or even an apology (if TAP was deemed to be in fact in error)... I understand their natural desire to sweep issues under the rug and keep things internal, but not offering a ruling or simply an explanation for for things, looks VERY bad. This is NOT the first time this has happened with TAP at a National event, and transparency is sorely needed..
I have nothing against TAP or APA, but all I am saying is that they BOTH have their problems and issues...
I'm pretty sure George N. is running that tournament.. Good luck with that! He comes off as a real nice guy until his teams end up losing. The last spoken words I had with him were, "here's your money, now I suggest you and your team get the f$ck out of here". That was after we won the first (and last) PA. state championship in Sharon PA.... He even went as far as to 'freeze' the tournament when my player was on the FINAL shot of other tournament. He came over and said, while my guy was in the middle of stroking a shot on the 8, 'the tournament is officially on hold until a ruling can be made'.. He then walked away and didn't say anything else. We just all looked at each other like, what the hell is that all about?!? So my player, who was a ball of nerves as it was, had to sit there in limbo until I could find out what what the hell was going on... Here I come to find out, 30 minutes later, that a player from my area, who didn't even play on my team, or even out of my place, lied about his handicap in a singles mini tournament that was being held at the same time in a bar next door to the pool hall we were playing at! I was livid that he would do what he did when it had absolutely NOTHING to do with my team, players, or the actual TAP sponsored State Tournament at hand! Here I found out later, the team we beat in the finals was the supposed favorite to win, and one of Georges teams....
Like said, good luck with that tournament..
I can handle losing...it's what pushes me to get better. Been playing even just about my whole life, don't see any reason to quit now. I know I'm not pro level, so no delusions.
don't get me wrong i can handle losing... even if its to a lesser handicap than me ...which seems to be the reason a lot of people dont like playing handicap leagues.
i also like the challenge of playing better players. i enjoyed my time in the masters but i don't see where it did me any good to pay 10 bucks a night to be some bodys rack boy.
yea i have heard you can get better by playing better player but at the same time you don't get much experience sitting in the chair while they run rack after rack.
Ya get better....or you rack. Cheap night of lessons.
The masters league in my opinion, is the best APA has to offer. You can learn a lot if you pay attention while you're sitting in your chair. And when you win your match, it's not because someone couldn't outrun the spot. I realize that means little to most people.
I agree on the APA Masters points. They just restarted Masters in our area this past session and we formed a team. I enjoyed consistently playing against good players. I enjoyed getting home earlier. I enjoyed the format. I only won one match but learned a lot and consistently got better. If there were a second night of Masters, I'd bag the regular APA and only play Masters.
My primary ***** about regular APA is how long it takes and subsequently getting home really late. This is the major complaint with lots of people and I think holds some people back from playing in an APA league. IMHO, speeding up play should be the number one focus of APA for the purpose of growing their membership. It could be fixed with the right degree of focus. At least an hour per night is wasted needlessly. The biggest waste of time is the most frustrating to me because it is totally unnecessary. One match finishes. Takes up to 10 minutes sometimes for the team who puts up to do so. Then that player has to be found, usually outside having a cigarette. Then he has to come in and get all his equipment out of case and assembled. Just stupid. I think this could be solved by setting all the match ups prior to the beginning of play. The two Captains could just go back and forth with their respective turns and have that set by league start time. They could have a rule that anybody not ready to play within 2 minutes following the end of a match forfeits. Limit time outs to one minute in length.
I think the sandbagging thing is over rated. Part of the problem is the difference in leagues and another part is score keeping. Part of handicapping is the relative strength of play. Strong league, lower handicaps. Not sure if there is much to be done about that. Most scorekeepers are rather clueless about marking defensive shots and doing so isn't emphasized, not doing so isn't penalized.
At the end of the day, it's real simple. If you don't like APA, don't play in it. But why constantly find the need to complain about it? Despite some of the negatives, APA does have a lot of positives. It gets a lot of people playing pool. Many of the pool players complaining about APA might end up very unhappy if APA no longer existed and that subsequently caused a further downsizing of pool in the country. Many of the smaller bars love APA and the revenue it brings into their establishment. They do a number of things to cater to APA. If not for APA, those bars may not even exist or may replace their pool tables with bar stools.
Why bother complaining about payouts? I don't know anybody that got rich being big winners in BCA or any other amateur league. Seriously, you're playing a certain league because you get $100 or so more per session? When you consider the number of hours you put in and then figure out what that nets you on a hourly rate, that's outright laughable.
My primary ***** about regular APA is how long it takes and subsequently getting home really late. This is the major complaint with lots of people and I think holds some people back from playing in an APA league. IMHO, speeding up play should be the number one focus of APA for the purpose of growing their membership. It could be fixed with the right degree of focus. At least an hour per night is wasted needlessly. The biggest waste of time is the most frustrating to me because it is totally unnecessary. One match finishes. Takes up to 10 minutes sometimes for the team who puts up to do so. Then that player has to be found, usually outside having a cigarette. Then he has to come in and get all his equipment out of case and assembled. Just stupid. I think this could be solved by setting all the match ups prior to the beginning of play. The two Captains could just go back and forth with their respective turns and have that set by league start time. They could have a rule that anybody not ready to play within 2 minutes following the end of a match forfeits. Limit time outs to one minute in length.
I think the sandbagging thing is over rated. Part of the problem is the difference in leagues and another part is score keeping. Part of handicapping is the relative strength of play. Strong league, lower handicaps. Not sure if there is much to be done about that. Most scorekeepers are rather clueless about marking defensive shots and doing so isn't emphasized, not doing so isn't penalized.
At the end of the day, it's real simple. If you don't like APA, don't play in it. But why constantly find the need to complain about it? Despite some of the negatives, APA does have a lot of positives. It gets a lot of people playing pool. Many of the pool players complaining about APA might end up very unhappy if APA no longer existed and that subsequently caused a further downsizing of pool in the country. Many of the smaller bars love APA and the revenue it brings into their establishment. They do a number of things to cater to APA. If not for APA, those bars may not even exist or may replace their pool tables with bar stools.
Why bother complaining about payouts? I don't know anybody that got rich being big winners in BCA or any other amateur league. Seriously, you're playing a certain league because you get $100 or so more per session? When you consider the number of hours you put in and then figure out what that nets you on a hourly rate, that's outright laughable.
Spot on. I've never played Masters so I can't give any feedback on that, but everything else you said I've found to be accurate. This is my 2nd session ever in APA, and despite all the stuff I've read on these forums I actually enjoy it quite a bit. I think anybody would that doesn't try to make it into something that it isn't. It also helps when you like all of your teammates. The matches do seem to take longer than they should. I think one of the biggest things is more than just not being ready to play their matches, but also not paying attention when they are playing. For example if two lower SLs are playing it's obvious that one of them isn't exactly going to run out so there really is no need to sit down between shots, turn your back to the table, talk to your friends etc. Also, the defensive shots thing tilts me a little too. I pretty much have to always tell the scorekeeper when I play a defensive shot unless our 6 or 7 is keeping score. I'm not sure what could be done to make defensive shot scoring better, but I'm sure something would be better than how it's currently done.