I don't think that means anything. Look at the list of past winners. I'd certainly consider it a world class field. You're certainly entitled to feel otherwise.
Pool Is One Of The Hardest Games
- Thread starter Johnnyt
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I don't think that means anything. Look at the list of past winners. I'd certainly consider it a world class field. You're certainly entitled to feel otherwise.
And the fact is that MOST of the offspring of champion horses DON'T become champions. Why not? Because you can't breed DESIRE. If a horse doesn't want to run then no amount of prodding is going to make him run. On the other hand IF a horse wants to run then very often he will push himself beyond the limits of what his trainers think is possible.
People BREED horses with the HOPE that they will get a horse that is PHYSICALLY fit to run and has the DESIRE to run. Obviously choosing horse stock that has the PHYSICAL traits needed to endure long races is a prerequisite and goes along with what I said. But no amount of breeding guarantees a horse with the proper amount of desire.<--But yet you claim creating 'desire and dedication' in human's, is a piece of cake..I'm confused !
Calm down John.. I only casually mentioned 'horse breeding' in making my point, as it pertains to gene pool's..
..I had no idea you were an EXPERT in that field also !
SJD <--Shoulda knowed !
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I think after 10 years, and at the age of 15 ish (HS) they begin to start weeding out the good players from the great players, and the good players played and practiced just as much as the great players... but at some point, folks hit a wall, and they can't go to the next level no matter how much they practice, they are limited by certain skills (like speed or strength) or by mental focus to know what to do and when to do it, and only have a fraction of a second to decide (hitting, fielding and running)
Just like in pool, folks can't 'see" the patterns as good, and some kids cannot take the correct route on a fly ball hit 300 feet, and one mis step is the difference between an out and a double. Some things are hard to teach, and they have to have some natural instinct to be able to do things.... everyone does.
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Calm down John.. I only casually mentioned 'horse breeding' in making my point, with regards to gene pool's...I had no idea you were an EXPERT in that field also !
SJD <--Shoulda knowed !
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I never said that "creating desire and dedication" in humans was easy or even possible. Putting words in my mouth to state things I never said or implied is not the way to advance your argument.
I said that among world class performers DESIRE and DEDICATION seem to be the difference in how much time and the quality of that time is put in. In other words the STUDIES have revealed that the elite among world class performers shows that those elite performers have more desire and dedication that allowed them to go above and beyond the ordinary practice regimens. They were the first to get to work in the morning and the ones who had to be kicked out at night.
So when you have ANY person who puts in that kind of time with desire and dedication they will very often reach a high level. What you cannot show is any person who did and who did NOT reach world class.
What it is in my opinion is that you want to think of yourself as a superior human being because you could play pool at a higher level than most other humans. But in fact you were ONLY superior in that endeavor while the guy standing next to you put in just as many hours learning to ride motorcycles and consequently is able to do daredevil moves with world class accuracy but he can't run a rack despite spending hours at the pool room each day. That's because for you pool was a living and for him pool is recreation.
I am not an expert but I read a lot of what experts have to say. You should try it. Beats being ignorant in my opinion.
Mr. Lvr,...As I've been saying all along..you cannot possibly KNOW, until you become 'world class' YOURSELF !..No problem though, theres a case maker in China, and a pro in Dallas, that will have you there in just a few weeks !
as the old saying goes, "hard work beats talent, when talent doesnt work hard"
I am happy to agree to disagree on this and say that for me the jury is definitely still out. Until we ever have some way to have controlled experiments with humans we will always contend with the fact that humans all develop differently depending on their environment. With that even two kids who put in the same amount of hours may have very different neurological function due to the other influences in their lives. Both might have the capacity to be equally good but one might simply be in love with the activity while the other one might just go through the motions to please someone else. So many factors and all you can really do is judge results.
As Spidey says, the table doesn't lie. You can think you are good but the table doesn't lie to you and the more the balls stay on the top when you try to put them down the worse you are. No one yet can really measure potential. We have all seen "talented" people burn out and give up or go nuts.
I will say that I think baseball is PROBABLY a very good activity to use for measuring how far desire and dedication bring you because it is possible to track players from little league through the pros since baseball has an extremely clear path from t-ball through the pros with the minor league farm team system in place as the purgatory from amateur to the major leagues.
Certainly there have to be individual examples of minor league pros who work extremely hard and still never get called up to the majors.
That's actually a new saying that a blogger made up in disagreement with Malcom Gladwell's conclusions in Talent is Overrated.
And it would be true IF talent existed but so far "talent" has not been found. Everyone considered to be extremely talented was found to have a mountain of support behind them. My little girl enjoys dancing. If I put her in dance classes now then a year later she would be very advanced for her age as a dancer.
Maybe interest should be replaced with talent. If someone gets "hooked" on something then they desire to learn it and thus their progression seems super natural but actually it's simply due to the fact that they decide to focus on that activity intensely.
Pool might actually be a great way to do experiments. Get 1000 people who will swear they never held a pool cue and test them for various skills such as hand eye coordination and spatial reasoning and then give them pool tasks with ZERO instruction. Then you have data on who among them performed best on the task with no instruction at all. This could be done in a small space over the course of a year at any college campus. That would be interesting to see the results of such a study.
As a followup it would be cool to see how many of the people got hooked and took up pool as a hobby afterwards.
Mr. Lvr,...As I've been saying all along..you cannot possibly KNOW, until you become 'world class' YOURSELF !..No problem though, theres a case maker in China, and a pro in Dallas, that will have you there in just a few weeks !
You were world class at one point, so why don't you just tell me.
Tell me what you had that can't be learned.
Boy, talk about putting words in someone's mouth !..Need I remind you, that it is "YOU", who in every post, display an overwhelming (and often overbearing) "superiority complex"! :sorry: (but thanks for enlightening us all, with your expertice, re; 'horse breeding' )
PS..If you don't mind, I will pass on your reading choice's !..I still say this is one book you have NEVER read !..By the way, the author is a 'Fortune 500. communication coach...Is that 'expert' enough for you ?
See post #370...I been tryin' to 'splain it to John, for 5 yrs. now...He calls it 'bragging' !
There are TONS of minor league guys who bust their arse, and will not make it to the pro's, just like there are a ton of guys that bust their arse and won't get a college scholarship. And the same number that won't make the HS team....... that is the tough part of baseball, football and hockey, tennis, etc... there are physical attributes that no amount of training can overcome...
For every Doug Flutie, there are a million dudes 5'9" that will never play pro level. But he had HUGE hands, and an cannon arm, and could read defenses well, not to mention he could "run" from trouble....
And even then he had to go to Canada to prove himself again to the NFL, and still played NFL ball till he was in his early 40's... which is the most amazing part of his skill set for a guy who threw for over 50K yards in his professional career....
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Boy, talk about putting words in someone's mouth !..Need I remind you, that it is "YOU", who in every post, display an overwhelming (and often overbearing) "superiority complex"! :sorry: (but thanks for enlightening us all, with your expertice, re; 'horse breeding' )
PS..If you don't mind, I will pass on your reading choice's !..I still say this is one book you have NEVER read !..By the way, the author is a 'Fortune 500. communication coach...Is that 'expert' enough for you ?
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It's tooting my horn to say I read a lot? I also cite sources whenever possible so that others can go and read the same material if they wish too. This is how discussion is enriched Dick. Think about it if a bunch of folks are ignorantly discussing the flatness of the Earth and one guy pipes up and says the Earth is round then the others will soundly berate him UNLESS he has some kind of proof. That proof might be a book written by someone who gathered the work of Galileo, Copernicus and Kepler and coupled it with the experience of Columbus and other voyagers to prove using all available data and experiences that the world is round.
If that guy never got off the block then he would have no idea if the world was round or flat based on his own experience and would need to rely on the deeper studies done by others. Now, he could choose to believe the established doctrine that the world was flat or choose to believe the new information that the world is round. Either way he would have to have some source for this information since he didn't do any work to discover it one way or the other.
I can't believe that I have to explain this to a senior citizen who is obviously intelligent. You worked for a company that wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the advances in science surrounding logistics and algorithmic data use. And yet while you saw data in action every day at work you refuse to believe that data means anything in the nature/nurture debate.
Well, I am sure that there were a lot of die hard flat earthers who refused to buy globes back in the 1600s.
Mr. Lvr,...As I've been saying all along..you cannot possibly KNOW, until you become 'world class' YOURSELF !..No problem though, theres a case maker in China, and a pro in Dallas, that will have you there in just a few weeks !
From the time you first picked up a cue to when you "were just a ball under the best in the world" how long was that?
Or let's use the first time you beat Ronnie Allen heads up as the marker. From the time you picked up a cue for the first time to then how long was it?
So is there global warming or is it a Hoax
Scientific research often is manipulated
There is always going to be some geek who wants to prove the only reason he can't do something is because he did not practice for it
But out here in the real world we see example if it everyday ,, Did Secretariat win the Belmont by more than 25 lengths because he was better trained ,,
Absolutely no horses are trained almost exactly the same
He was just simply a better Horse
Cases like this exists in all walks of life there are naturally bigger stronger faster smarter
No scientific research will dispute this
I do think for the sake of your argument pool has less restrictions and the ones that excell the most are usually the ones that play the most .
but at the end of the day their are guys that simply stand above the rest but by a smaller degree
That's why you see older players still competing where in other sports they could not
I don't think it has that much to do with spatial Intelligence most people don't lose because they can't see. a run out ,, fluid brain skills peak at about 25 while reasoning skills peak much later ,, but at the end of the day you still have to hit what your seeing
consistently something that some just do better than others regardless of practice time
This is why I say pool is not on the same plane as other sports in the difficulty to make pro level ,, the limitations simply are much less but they do exist
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Thanks for proving your point ... to be wrong! You've maintained it is all about desire, not about genetics. Right here, however, you list YOU reference a scientific study about breeding in passivity. I'm sure, as you ALWAYS do, you'll attempt to spin your way out of this one. Fact is, you unwittingly posted scientific fact that disputes your theory. Well done. You enjoy arguing so much, given time, you'll end up arguing against yourself.
I consider you intelligent too, but what is it with you, and your strange obsession with "scientific studies" and "data" ?...Where is the correlation between the subject at hand, (trying to become a top pool player) and UPS ???
Seriously John, I would be concerned that someone close to you, is going to have you "commited" for your own good !...
..Your rantings are REALLY becoming quite scary !
Love how you SELECTIVELY choose to take things out of context. Not worth explaining it to you again. If we had a real debate for money there is not enough weight I could give you to make it a fair contest.
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It's obvious that some of the best players in the world go to Louisville
I have no opinion, it's just what Greg told me in Tunica. It's obvious that some of the best players in the world go to Louisville, however, they also go to many other places that aren't considered pro events. It is a huge tournament, but with the "buy backs" it's not the model Greg (or anyone) would choose for a Pro Event.
I have no opinion, it's just what Greg told me in Tunica. It's obvious that some of the best players in the world go to Louisville, however, they also go to many other places that aren't considered pro events. It is a huge tournament, but with the "buy backs" it's not the model Greg (or anyone) would choose for a Pro Event.
I consider you intelligent too, but what is it with you, and your strange obsession with "scientific studies" and "data" ?...Where is the correlation between the subject at hand, (trying to become a top pool player) and UPS ???
Seriously John, I would be concerned that someone close to you, is going to have you "commited" for your own good !...
..Your rantings are REALLY becoming quite scary !
The subject is how difficult pool is compared to other games or not. The science shows that just about any profession requires about 10,000 hours of deep practice/experience to master.
You guys made it into another nature/nurture debate. And even there the science leans more towards nurture and less towards nature at this point in time.