Can someone help me understand the thought process behind these requests?

[justadub]

LOL at this being the best place to go for advice. Gimme a freaking break....

I don't think it's necessarily a bad place to come to get some idea's, so long as she understands coming in that she will have to sift through an awful lot of unfortunate crap to get at them.

AZB does have a lot of people that represent a lot of different viewpoints and perspectives, not to mention experience. And many here are willing to share their opinions, idea's and yes, advice.

Again, is it THE place to go? Uh, that would be no.

I hope all the events are successful. It kinda sounds like they will be.

 

[logical]

Marketing is the highest value in a business, especially when competing with an existing business.

Work on marketing. Then work on it some more. Never quit marketing. Allocate some of that money for marketing first.

Jeff Livingston

Can you be a little more specific? "marketing" is basically anything related to putting together packages of goods or services to allow exchange to take place.

Take the auto business. Offering leases and financing is marketing. Bundling power seats with a sunroof is marketing. Commercials on TV is marketing. Rebates are marketing. Product placement in movies and TV is marketing. Even choosing the color choices to offer involves marketing. Researching the market and deciding how to approach different demographic groups is marketing.

So, what exactly are you suggesting?

 

[one stroke]

Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard
So the fragmentation of 'promoters' for these pro events isn't an issue? You ever notice how each weekend there is only one FedEx Cup point golf tourney? Same goes for darts and bowling. There's only one at a time. Only one Nascar race at a time. I'm intentionally showing that in the case of single player competitions there isn't the same fragmentation in other sports like there is in pool.

Is adding more $5,000 first place payout tourneys a good idea? Hell no it ain't. I know a few people out there that could compete with SVB on the pool table, but why should they give up they're $1,000,000+/year job to go play pro pool for chump change?



AGREED!!! Who are these random people that can compete with SVB that make any salary..let alone $1 million + per year..impossible is an understatement.

In a long race Shane would win pretty much all the time in a short race there are many no names that could not only compete but win a short set against Shane,, anyone who does not think so does not spend much time outside thier local pool hall



1

 

[KRJ]

In a long race Shane would win pretty much all the time in a short race there are many no names that could not only compete but win a short set against Shane,, anyone who does not think so does not spend much time outside thier local pool hall



1

Anything is possible... of course, betting on your logic is an entirely different move. You go get those millionaires, and they can play race to 8 with SVB, and you can bet all you want.. i'm pretty sure 99.9% of the AZB community will be putting all they can find on SVB to cover any and all bets..... prolly even enough to entice the "rich" guy to fly in for the easy score

 

[Nostroke]

Anything is possible... of course, betting on your logic is an entirely different move. You go get those millionaires, and they can play race to 8 with SVB, and you can bet all you want.. i'm pretty sure 99.9% of the AZB community will be putting all they can find on SVB to cover any and all bets..... prolly even enough to entice the "rich" guy to fly in for the easy score

I'll put up 5k on SVB vs the unknown rich guy 40 plus any day..

 

[JCIN]

it can, in general, sometimes be a crap-shoot, from my understanding. but you're a Big-Boy. (literally.) check your PMs.

You really should vet your "sources" better.

People tell me things everyday. I always ask myself a few questions when that happens.

1. Why are they telling me this?
2. What if any agenda do they have and how will this information further it?
3. How credible is this information based on what I know of the principles involved already?

So if say a person who got fired from a company for turning several jobs into goat ropes were to come to me and say "Better watch out for that company they don't pay" and I didnt know the backstory I may give it some credence. Before I ran around spouting that in public though I would get the other side of the story and perhaps at least a few facts because in my experience with humans its not unusual for them to stretch the truth in their favor when a dispute comes about. After making a decision on the validity of information I then must ask myself : Is it my place to say anything in public or is this simply a private matter that does not concern me?

Just something you might consider in the future.

 

[one stroke]

Anything is possible... of course, betting on your logic is an entirely different move. You go get those millionaires, and they can play race to 8 with SVB, and you can bet all you want.. i'm pretty sure 99.9% of the AZB community will be putting all they can find on SVB to cover any and all bets..... prolly even enough to entice the "rich" guy to fly in for the easy score

Race to 5 is a short race ,, and of course he would be the favorit and Im including all unknowns not just the rich onces....


1

 

[PINKLADY]

You really should vet your "sources" better.

People tell me things everyday. I always ask myself a few questions when that happens.

1. Why are they telling me this?
2. What if any agenda do they have and how will this information further it?
3. How credible is this information based on what I know of the principles involved already?

So if say a person who got fired from a company for turning several jobs into goat ropes were to come to me and say "Better watch out for that company they don't pay" and I didnt know the backstory I may give it some credence. Before I ran around spouting that in public though I would get the other side of the story and perhaps at least a few facts because in my experience with humans its not unusual for them to stretch the truth in their favor when a dispute comes about. After making a decision on the validity of information I then must ask myself : Is it my place to say anything in public or is this simply a private matter that does not concern me?

Just something you might consider in the future.

"What someone will do FOR you, they will do TO you...."

you are correct, Justin. and my original post, was based mostly, on my <3hr phone conversation w/ Kimberly. coupled w/ conversations w/ Cantrill, and Griffin, and other 3 involved.

as a layperson (who spends $$$ playing pool & buying PPVs), and a former Auditor - i follow the money. most herein know that i don't discriminate - cause i'm not "invested". and on a forum - of those who constantly question: WHAT'S WRONG WITH POOL?, while promoters & streamers & pro players are going under & they aren't spending a penny on pool....

i follow the money. while i pick & choose where i spend mine. and attempt to promote where i can.

so no - it's none of my business. i'm simply a consumer. while i know BOTH sides of SALES/MARKETING & pool's demographics. and i for some stupid reason, after meeting so many cool people (and knowing their flaws), including you, actually CARE. thanks for jerking-a-knot in my ass!

Str8 Shots threw it on the table - be careful what you ask for....



EDIT: there is valuable information to be construed from AZB's forums. it's why i am still here. i use yáll's input, ideas, brainstorming - and incorporate it with my business regarding the economy. (after i sift through the BS)

 

[kvinbrwr]

there is valuable information to be construed from AZB's forums. it's why i am still here. i use yáll's input, ideas, brainstorming - and incorporate it with my business regarding the economy. (after i sift through the BS)

My posts, of course, being certified by an independent auditor as "100% BS Free" (just to save you some of that sifting time).

 

[itsfroze]

You Need A Scorecard On Here Now - Today, 01:09 AM
"It's really getting hard to figure out what court everyone is in on AZB. Even if your on the inside it's hard ,as they switch teams in midstream at the drop of a payday." Johnnyt


I was thinking, but I'm trying to quit !

 

[JoeyA]

I have listened for three years about how professional players cannot make any money because there are not enough tournaments for them to play in. A couple of years ago we set out to get sponsorship from outside the industry to try to help turn things around. Str8 Shots has been very successful in getting sponsorship for 4 events this year with the first event being the Nick Varner Classic in March. There’s a total of $19,000.00 added and it is guaranteed.

$10,500.00 is being added to a professional event for up to 32 players. I’m aware the Rum Runner tournament is the same weekend and has up to 64 players. Unfortunately that weekend is one of the only weekends that Nick has availability. Plus the Wyoming Open is the following weekend and that has good money added to it also. We figured by having it the 3rd weekend of March, it worked with Nick’s schedule and gave professional players the opportunity to play in two good paying events over two consecutive weekends.

We’ve received numerous calls, FB messages, and emails from professional players asking us to cover their expenses to play in our event or they will go to Rum Runner. They say that the Rum Runner has better payouts and their expenses would be higher to come to Denver versus going to Vegas. Let’s compare apples to apples.

Rumrunner Payouts
1st - $5,000.00
2nd - $2,500.00
3rd - $1,600.00
4th - $1,100.00
5th/6th - $850.00
7th/8th - $600.00
9th/12th - $425.00
13th/16th - $300.00

Rum Runner Added $3,700.00
Entry Fee $200.00
Total Payout $16,000.00

Varner Payouts
1st - $5,000.00
2nd - $3,000.00
3rd - $2,000.00
4th - $1,500.00
5th/6th - $1,100.00
7th/8th - $790.00

Top Lady - $500.00

Nick Varner Added $10,500.00
Entry Fee $200.00
Total Payout $15,780.00


Upon checking flights to and from various cities around the country into both Vegas and Denver we have found there are some flights that are cheaper going to Vegas, while other flights are cheaper going into Denver.

Cheapest hotel we could find near the Rum Runner that will give you a free cup of coffee and free internet was $89.00 for two double/queens beds per night. It is a 2/3 star hotel. The deals we worked out with the hotels are $65.00 to $74.00 for two double/queens beds per night. Both of the hotels we’ve blocked rooms at include a free hot breakfast, free internet, and free shuttle service within 5 miles. Both 3/4 star hotels.

I think the Rum Runner is a great event and if they cover all the expenses for these players that is their decision .They have the right to decide what they want to do with their event. I would also encourage the players who have supported and done well in that event in the past to continue going to it.

I am asking because from a business standpoint it makes no sense to me. Why would promoters put the money up for the tournaments, pay players entry fees, and cover all their expenses to play in it? In my opinion you are stacking the deck against the players who actually did pay their own entry and expenses.

I would appreciate any insight/feedback.

The answer to your question is that professional pool players choose to play pool for a living and the pay isn't nearly as good as having a 9-5 steady job, working in a factory. They need to weigh all of their options and see just how many extras they can get from the promoters/sponsors.

It is the nature of the beast. They do what they do because they have to.

It is an unfortunate situation.

To be honest, it appears that the Nick Varner Classic Professional pool tournament pays far better than the Rum Runner. The Nick Varner will have a Calcutta in addition to the added money and entry fee purses.

The think that I believe some professional players are missing is that the NVC pro event is limited to a maximum of 32 players. In this event, they want have some unknown professional player knocking them out of the event like what will happen to them in the Rum Runner event. I'm not knocking the Rum Runner event. I'm sure it is a popular event.

All that being said, events that are scheduled on top of each other will continue to create decisions for any players. Sometimes in the decision making process people don't always make the best choices.

I see that your Nick Varner Classic tournament is having NO PROBLEMS in filling out the field to 128 amateur players. This is most likely due to the generous $8,000.00 of added money, the accommodations, the event itself AND THE FACT THAT MOST AMATEUR PLAYERS HAVE OTHER JOBS THAN PLAYING POOL, to fund their taking part in this event.

WWW.STR8-SHOTS.COM
THANK YOU FOR DOING ALL YOU DO FOR POOL!

The fact that some professional pool players are not willing to pull in the same direction as the promoters, speaks volumes about the one-sidedness that is their perspective. By not investing their time into promoter's worthwhile pursuits that are at the interest of the promoters is effectively shooting themselves in the foot.

I've heard professional pool players whine that doing philanthropic work has not benefitted them in any way and they prefer not to waste their time. This is just another case of incorrect thinking. Until the pro players correct their perspectives, promoters will continue to gravitate toward the Amateur crowd as they have been doing in the recent years.


JoeyA

 

[JCIN]

"What someone will do FOR you, they will do TO you...."

you are correct, Justin. and my original post, was based mostly, on my <3hr phone conversation w/ Kimberly. coupled w/ conversations w/ Cantrill, and Griffin, and other 3 involved.

as a layperson (who spends $$$ playing pool & buying PPVs), and a former Auditor - i follow the money. most herein know that i don't discriminate - cause i'm not "invested". and on a forum - of those who constantly question: WHAT'S WRONG WITH POOL?, while promoters & streamers & pro players are going under & they aren't spending a penny on pool....

i follow the money. while i pick & choose where i spend mine. and attempt to promote where i can.

so no - it's none of my business. i'm simply a consumer. while i know BOTH sides of SALES/MARKETING & pool's demographics. and i for some stupid reason, after meeting so many cool people (and knowing their flaws), including you, actually CARE. thanks for jerking-a-knot in my ass!

Str8 Shots threw it on the table - be careful what you ask for....



EDIT: there is valuable information to be construed from AZB's forums. it's why i am still here. i use yáll's input, ideas, brainstorming - and incorporate it with my business regarding the economy. (after i sift through the BS)

Do me a favor. Just leave me alone. Seriously. I am not interested in your input. I don't care how smart and successful you think you are. People who do what you are doing cause much more harm than good. Always. Every time.

You want to critique the product I produce go for it but last I looked my reputation in this industry is solid. No history of stiffing anyone, don't screw people over and go out of my way to help my customers. So based on that I don't think its any of yours or anyone else's business how I do what I do or who I do it with.

I know you wont believe this but you really do not know as much as you think you do. So I would appreciate it if you just leave me out of your gossip circle. I can assure you I have never and will never call around asking "What is that pinklady into and have you heard?"

If people worried more about doing their own job in the industry and less what other people are doing things would be better.

 

[JumpinJoe]

The answer to your question is that professional pool players choose to play pool for a living and the pay isn't nearly as good as having a 9-5 steady job, working in a factory. They need to weigh all of their options and see just how many extras they can get from the promoters/sponsors.

It is the nature of the beast. They do what they do because they have to.

It is an unfortunate situation.

To be honest, it appears that the Nick Varner Classic Professional pool tournament pays far better than the Rum Runner. The Nick Varner will have a Calcutta in addition to the added money and entry fee purses.

The think that I believe some professional players are missing is that the NVC pro event is limited to a maximum of 32 players. In this event, they want have some unknown professional player knocking them out of the event like what will happen to them in the Rum Runner event. I'm not knocking the Rum Runner event. I'm sure it is a popular event.

All that being said, events that are scheduled on top of each other will continue to create decisions for any players. Sometimes in the decision making process people don't always make the best choices.

I see that your Nick Varner Classic tournament is having NO PROBLEMS in filling out the field to 128 amateur players. This is most likely due to the generous $8,000.00 of added money, the accommodations, the event itself AND THE FACT THAT MOST AMATEUR PLAYERS HAVE OTHER JOBS THAN PLAYING POOL, to fund their taking part in this event.

WWW.STR8-SHOTS.COM
THANK YOU FOR DOING ALL YOU DO FOR POOL!

The fact that some professional pool players are not willing to pull in the same direction as the promoters, speaks volumes about the one-sidedness that is their perspective. By not investing their time into promoter's worthwhile pursuits that are at the interest of the promoters is effectively shooting themselves in the foot.

I've heard professional pool players whine that doing philanthropic work has not benefitted them in any way and they prefer not to waste their time. This is just another case of incorrect thinking. Until the pro players correct their perspectives, promoters will continue to gravitate toward the Amateur crowd as they have been doing in the recent years.


JoeyA

That's not true. I lived there before and played both events that rum runners has. And they do have a Calcutta.

And on this weekend if looking for the best payout well that's without a doubt the bigtyme event. But I'm not going to argue it, just thought I'd let you know. $50 for 4k, is much better then $200 for 5k. And Calcutta, well it's usually double or triple more in the south.

As far as paying for someone. In my opinion there's only 1 U.S. Pro even capable or should ever be asking for that. Only SVB.

Interesting thread though.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

.................

 

[JoeyA]

That's not true. I lived there before and played both events that rum runners has. And they do have a Calcutta.

And on this weekend if looking for the best payout well that's without a doubt the bigtyme event. But I'm not going to argue it, just thought I'd let you know. $50 for 4k, is much better then $200 for 5k. And Calcutta, well it's usually double or triple more in the south.

As far as paying for someone. In my opinion there's only 1 U.S. Pro even capable or should ever be asking for that. Only SVB.

Interesting thread though.

What's not true?

If you think going to a pool tournament and fighting through 64 players is easier than fighting through 32 players (and CASHING), then I guess we just went to different schools.

JoeyA

 

[JumpinJoe]

What's not true?

If you think going to a pool tournament and fighting through 64 players is easier than fighting through 32 players (and CASHING), then I guess we just went to different schools.

JoeyA

Colorados payout much better then rum runners because of the Calcutta.
They both have $200 entry, pay 5k, and both have a Calcutta. You were referencing rum runners as no Calcutta basically. They do have a Calcutta.

 

[PINKLADY]

Do me a favor. Just leave me alone. Seriously. I am not interested in your input. I don't care how smart and successful you think you are. People who do what you are doing cause much more harm than good. Always. Every time.

You want to critique the product I produce go for it but last I looked my reputation in this industry is solid. No history of stiffing anyone, don't screw people over and go out of my way to help my customers. So based on that I don't think its any of yours or anyone else's business how I do what I do or who I do it with.

I know you wont believe this but you really do not know as much as you think you do. So I would appreciate it if you just leave me out of your gossip circle. I can assure you I have never and will never call around asking "What is that pinklady into and have you heard?"

If people worried more about doing their own job in the industry and less what other people are doing things would be better.

not a problem; we're square.
i'll take my TAR & Str8 Shots money elsewhere.

sorry i tried to help you. and missed you @ the WMC & DCC!

headed to Break Time w/ SuperBowl appetizers.

 

[nb92]

maybe it's because corporate sponsors see the mentality that you are putting forward and it turns them off on pro pool.

lol ... +++++

 

[nb92]

again - if you're going to be in the Business - make sure you have ALL of the info. if not, then hire a consultant, who DOES.

you get what you pay for, Kimberly. and it takes money to make money.

ya ... there is a 3-cushion event in NY that "could-be impacted"... I know the moose lodge in godhelpme, WV is having and event.... plus Truman "might" do a bank event on those days.. GIVE ME A Break.....

There is NO tour... instead of one event a week with $15K in the purse that the same two guys chop up... why NOT 10 or more.... it would seem that $60K paid out in one week spread over different geographic regions is a good thing........

 

[nb92]

Do me a favor. Just leave me alone. Seriously. I am not interested in your input. I don't care how smart and successful you think you are. People who do what you are doing cause much more harm than good. Always. Every time.

You want to critique the product I produce go for it but last I looked my reputation in this industry is solid. No history of stiffing anyone, don't screw people over and go out of my way to help my customers. So based on that I don't think its any of yours or anyone else's business how I do what I do or who I do it with.

I know you wont believe this but you really do not know as much as you think you do. So I would appreciate it if you just leave me out of your gossip circle. I can assure you I have never and will never call around asking "What is that pinklady into and have you heard?"

If people worried more about doing their own job in the industry and less what other people are doing things would be better.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: