Eliminating Ball in Hand
- Thread starter BeiberLvr
- Start date
Despite your ideas being panned, I think you hit a couple of really important issues in your post about 9 ball that make a lot of sense. BIH is too common and should be a lot tougher to obtain. There's no bigger pisser than having your opponent miss a shot and bury you at the other end of the table. You try your Jimmy Reid system kick and miss, they get BIH and run out.
I wouldn't want to get rid of BIH, just come up with a scenario that makes it harder to get. Also, get away from too much safety play. The game should stay an offensive battle and rely on something else besides hiding the cue ball. :smile:
Maybe instead of three fouls, loss of game, make that the BIH award. After each unsuccessful kick, give the shooter that played the safe the option. Either they shoot it where it lies, or make the other player shoot again. If they foul again, that's two on them. And the fouls don't have to be in succession. Any three total fouls per game would award BIH.
I, for one, listen to any and all ideas. None are wrong and some are better than others. Good post!
Best,
Mike
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What about this for rules....
Chuck
- Foul on break, bih in the kitchen, if object ball is in the kitchen, it spots.
- 2 shot shootout rules (think ring game rules with bih on the second foul)
- Nine ball must be last ball. Spotted on break, can be made on a combination to keep turn at table, but spots immediately
- Call pocket (ball made in wrong pocket spots, cue ball stays, incoming shooter has option)
- No jump cues (can jump with full length cue)
- 18" break box
- Spot is 1 1/2 diamonds from end rail instead of 2 to eliminate wing balls
Chuck
Wait, did I miss something? Why is there a need to clarify what "call-shot" means? Nobody calls *how* the ball gets there. Amongst us serious players, we only call the pocket. Did the debate make an odd turn somewhere and someone started talking about calling kisses & shit? Sorry but if that's the case, I'll exit this convo right now. It's not worth the effort.
Call shot and call pocket are the same.
The passback rule is when playing call shot/pocket, the player calls his shot/pocket, then shoots, misses, and leaves the incoming player safe. The incoming player can take the shot or pass it back.
I like that idea.
I think it would prevent players from just intentionally fouling (since they might have to shoot again), and it still gives players a reason to play the occasional safe.
Would you believe I was horribly amazing?
Folks that don't like BIH usually can't kick a lick
Agree.
But if you've ever paid attention to any of my debates with CJ (over the old two foul rules), you'll know I'm all for kicking (which two foul eliminates).
I'm an average run out player, but a damn good kicker. Probably owed to all those years playing in handicapped tournaments where the better players would always 3 foul me.
Ok, but if you're playing someone that is good, they are gonna kick out of it at least a good percentage of the time....might even sell out, but that is what good defense does for a sport, it wins CHAMPIONSHIPS
Sir, I am not debating you or trying to start a debate with you and not sure why you do not think I am not a serious player because I was trying to be as clear as possible on the difference between call-pocket and call-shot, which I had the misfortune of playing by years ago.
In my response to your first post I was merely pointing out another way to play 9-ball, not necessarily a better way or new way. I apologize if I have offended you in any way and on that note I am exiting this thread.
Good luck at trying to gamble at a bar (not a pool hall), and playing anything other than 8 ball (call shot).
See if you get paid when you call the 8 in the corner, but you don't call it hitting the rail first, and then going off their ball.
It's a stupid way to play, but there are still plenty of people that play by those rules.
See if you get paid when you call the 8 in the corner, but you don't call it hitting the rail first, and then going off their ball.
It's a stupid way to play, but there are still plenty of people that play by those rules.
Folks that don't like BIH usually can't kick a lick
Yeah, right, playing 9 ball for forty years and counting and can't kick. That's rich!
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I see in your profile you're located in Florida and I ran into these rules at Dirty Harry's in Daytona, and didn't get paid but ended up paying, due to the 8 touching the rail.
Whether you know how to play real pool or not.
Some people felt that the rules played by world class players for
decades just wern't quite stupid enough.
Dale
That's why you set the rules ahead of time. Especially if you are playing for anything serious. Drunks in bars who think they play REAL pool cause they think you should have to call the eight past the chicken grease stain and off the far point of the pocket are laughable at best. I used to live in an area that was like that when I moved there. I robbed them for years using their own rules against them. That said, "bar rules" for the most part serve no purpose other than giving the player who's losing something to argue about, and get another turn at the table.
Chuck
OMG - the OP did not want to go back to pushout.
This is basically how the game was played BEFORE pushout.
If your opponent failed to make a good hit - you had the option to refuse
the shot and make him shoot again.
Worked pretty well for several decades.
Dale
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BIH or another harsh penalty like they use in English 8 ball is really needed for 8 ball where players are shooting at a different group. When we are talking about Rotation games, BIH is just an option that speeds up the game. Other options are: 2 foul BIH, option to pass shot back shooting in position (kitchen if scratch), or option to spot (filipino rules).
Of course each different type of penalty for a foul influences strategy and has it's own pros/cons.
Of course each different type of penalty for a foul influences strategy and has it's own pros/cons.
Yeah, right, playing 9 ball for forty years and counting and can't kick. That's rich!
I did say "most", not 'ALL"... just in case you missed it :scratchhead:
Personally, I don't think BIH is much of a problem. Ball In Hand behind the line has more problems associated with it (e.g., what do you do if the lowest ball is also behind the line AND a ball is already on the spot)
However, here's another idea: how about using a 'D' like they have in Snooker (and I believe english 8-ball.) The player is limited in where he can place the cueball but can shoot in any direction. Even if the lowest ball is in the 'D'.
However, here's another idea: how about using a 'D' like they have in Snooker (and I believe english 8-ball.) The player is limited in where he can place the cueball but can shoot in any direction. Even if the lowest ball is in the 'D'.