Reference Point Aiming System

plfrg said:
Stan, you seem angry tonight? I would never say something like that.

I said I don't care what aiming they use when they come to me. If they're already shooting well, I don't try to fix something that isn't broken. If they use CTE that's ok with me as long as they are pocketing balls accurately.

I've moved away from trying to present a bunch of aiming systems for someone to pick from. I only teach one system because its one of the best and easiest to learn, it works under pressure, and its simple so people can move on more quickly to other important aspects of the game.

If they come to me to learn CTE I will let them know that I'm not familiar enough with the system to teach it and I will gladly send them your way.
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You are good about slinging around words like angry and flippant.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
You are good about slinging around words like angry and flippant.

Stan Shuffett
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Email and forums can be very crude forms of communication. I try to assume someone else means well when they respond but your responses seemed to attack a system that you've never looked at.

The system I use does depend on a set of references but its the method of training and the intertwining of the aiming process with the shot routine that are just as important, if not more.

Before you state 'nothing new' you should have looked a little closer. I think the folks that read the booklet will find several items not commonly talked about.
 
plfrg said:
Email and forums can be very crude forms of communication. I try to assume someone else means well when they respond but your responses seemed to attack a system that you've never looked at.

The system I use does depend on a set of references but its the method of training and the intertwining of the aiming process with the shot routine that are just as important, if not more.

Before you state 'nothing new' you should have looked a little closer. I think the folks that read the booklet will find several items not commonly talked about.
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There you go with another good word: attack.

I will state it again!! NOTHING NEW! I do not need to see your booklet. You have created ZERO new knowledge.

Stan Shuffett
 
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stan shuffett said:
There you go with another good word: attack.

I will state it again!! NOTHING NEW! I do not need to see your booklet. You have NOT created ZERO new knowledge.

Stan Shuffett
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You're good Stan. Are you sure you weren't in the SEAL Teams as well?

We used to have a saying when I was there: Admit nothing, deny everything, and make counter accusations.

It's pretty effective when deployed properly. However, the next time you might want to avoid using a double negative.

I believe that: "You have *not* created *zero* new knowledge" actually means I have created new knowledge. Thanks for the compliment, even though you haven't read anything that I've written.
 
plfrg said:
You're good Stan. Are you sure you weren't in the SEAL Teams as well?

We used to have a saying when I was there: Admit nothing, deny everything, and make counter accusations.

It's pretty effective when deployed properly. However, the next time you might want to avoid using a double negative.

I believe that: "You have *not* created *zero* new knowledge" actually means I have created new knowledge. Thanks for the compliment, even though you haven't read anything that I've written.
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I caught the NOT and it was removed! You see you should double check and do your research properly before you toss out loose statements.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
I caught the NOT and it was removed! You see you should double check and do your research properly before you toss out loose statements.

Stan Shuffett
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looks like this one is going pretty far down the rabbit hole. It's hard to mess up when I'm using the quote button... glad you caught it :rolleyes:
 
plfrg said:
Duckie, it's a little difficult to understand what you're saying. Not sure what the first part of your point is.

With regard to the Cranfield arrow, if you read my booklet you'll find a reference to it in there. I think it's ok but not what I needed so I invented a more simple tool to find that point. It's a combination of the Cranfield arrow and the magic rack. It's printed on a thin piece of plastic so it will not affect the travel of the balls.

You place it under the object ball and move it to the correct alignment to show where the aimpoint is.
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Cool.......Now just add the aiming arc to it as in the drawing. The Aiming Arc is the line the ghostball contact patch will move along when the Ghost Ball is moved around the OB while in contact with the OB. It will always 1/2 the diameter of the CB from the outer most edge of the OB.

Another thing that is key is understanding is the OB direction of travel line. It has three points. They are start, pivot and end point. Start point is at the Ghost ball contact patch, the pivot at the OB contact patch and the end point which is where ever you want the OB to go.

Moving the GB contact patch, also the start point for the OB direction of travel, along the Aiming Arc, the OB direction of travel line pivots at the OB, moving the OB direction of travel line end point some distance.

The only time the OB Direction of travel line end point and OB direction of travel start point, also the GB contact patch, will move the same amount is when the OB direction of travel end point is 1/2 the diameter of the CB from the outer most edge of the OB.

When the OB direction of travel line end point is far from the OB, a little change along the Aiming Arc will move the OB direction of travel end point alot more. The amount depends on the distance from the OB direction of travel end point is from the OB contact patch, also the OB direction of travel pivot point.

I use Ghost Ball contact patch. This way my eyes are are always looking at where I want to put the CB. The OB contact point and the GB contact patch are on the same line to where ever you are sending the OB.

The difference is that the contact point of the OB is higher up on the plane of the line, but it its also offset to one side of the CB direction of travel.

For a straight in shot, not a issue, but get close to a 90 degree cut, the the OB contact point is way offset from the CB direction of travel.

And there are no real references points to use. It is all trail and error. It is the visual input from seeing where the CB hits the OB and where the OB goes after that is working. Once you see the correct shot picture, it is in your visual database for future reference.

Ever try a hard shot, then you do it once, then the next time its easier and the next easier and so on. The above is why.

And FWIW, I have never needed to correct for CIT. Spin yes, CIT no.
 
stan shuffett said:
What you are presenting is feel based. Nothing new!

Stan Shuffett
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And you are not presenting anything new either, just a different way to present something old, to which this poster is trying to do.

You got your CTE threads....sometimes you just need to shut up if you ain't got anything to add positive......cause I sure could liven up those CTE threads, but do not since I would not be bringing anything positive to a thread where people are trying to learn it.
 
duckie said:
And you are not presenting anything new either, just a different way to present something old, to which this poster is trying to do.

You got your CTE threads....sometimes you just need to shut up if you ain't got anything to add positive......cause I sure could liven up those CTE threads, but do not since I would not be bringing anything positive to a thread where people are trying to learn it.
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Your a funny guy!...Thanks for the laugh.
On a serious note here,yes I'm being serious.What do you actually practice with the arrow..Are there any special drills you do with it .
Just trying to understand why you preach the arrow so much.
 
plfrg said:
That's a pretty flippant statement coming from someone who should know better. You read 2 or 3 posts and assess an entire system as feel based? Never bothering to read anything about it? You should know better than that Stan.

To the contrary, the system is based on very objective references, as the name implies.

I have an electrical engineering degree and I was a sniper at SEAL Team 2. My interpretation of precision and yours might be slightly different.

I researched and developed this system over the last six years. As I stated, this system is a process that is integral to my shot routine. I didn't just read With Winning in Mind by Olympic gold medalist Lanny Bassham. I went down to Texas to meet and talk with him. This aiming system was meant to be both precise, and to work under pressure.

Forgive me for saying that feeling that the shot is on is a good thing.
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I will check this out simply because Lanny had an influence in its development. Mr. Bassham and Troy are both good people and few understand reaching peak potential and playing under pressure as well as they do. They know what is necessary to learn and the best methods for training and competing.

As you can see I have tremendous respect for them and I look forward to seeing what you have written about aiming. Thanks for your contributions and please disregard the cte followers(and leader). CTE is like a religion to some in this forum .
 
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(((Satori))) said:
I will check this out simply because Lanny had an influence in its development. Mr. Bassham and Troy are both good people and few understand reaching peak potential and playing under pressure as well as they do. They know what is necessary to learn and the best methods for training and competing.

As you can see I have tremendous respect for them and I look forward to seeing what you have written about aiming. Thanks for your contributions and please disregard the cte followers(and leader). CTE is like a religion to some in this forum .
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Of all the haters of CTE you are a candidate, if not the candidate for HEAD HATER. YOU have FAILED in your attempts to shut CTE down.

Stan Shuffett
 
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stan shuffett said:
Of all the haters of CTE you are a candidate, if not the candidate for HEAD HATER. YOU have FAILED in your attempts to shut CTE down.

Stan Shuffett
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I have never set out to shut CTE down. I know you will always be able to sell that stuff to desperate or curious people. I do get caught up in the arguments though every now and then about how it works and why I don't personally like the method but, if its any consolation, I'm trying to stop that.
 
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(((Satori))) said:
I have never set out to shut CTE down. I know you will always be able to sell that stuff to desperate or curious people. I do get caught up in the arguments though every now and then about how it works and why I don't personally like the method but, if its any consolation, I'm trying to stop that.
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No, YOU are likely the Head Hater! You could not resist yourself to make your post and slip in the your cult-type reference. At least this time, YOU left your SCAM reference out.

Stan Shuffett
 
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Stan - just add him to the ignore list. It is very therapeutic :)

He is another know it all that probably can't make 3 balls in a row and definitely adds no value here. I kid you not - thanks to John's match I have identified at least 20 trolls since Wednesday - all on the ignore list.

This forum makes much more sense without them.

Cheers buddy.

Gerry <-- Not sure if he was desperate or curious but sure glad it was one of those :)

stan shuffett said:
No, YOU are likely the Head Hater! You could not resist yourself to make your post and slip in the your cult-type reference. At least this time, YOU left your SCAM reference out.

Stan Shuffett
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i guess since there has been and still is alot of cte bashing i should not have been surprised that the tone of this thread would turn ugly
i dont understand why people cant be civil
fwiw
i just bought stans dvd and am giving it a try and i just bought the ops ebook
so i have an open mind
i must admit im biased towards ghost ball aiming because thats what i use(so far)
as for the aiming booklet presented
ive only skimmed thru it so i dont have an accurate opinion
but it seems to be a very well presented ghost ball type aiming system that tries to teach the difference between the aiming point and contact point
im sure there is more to it which i will understand after i read thru it in its entirety
 
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