Great stroke

I've been looking for a good fit bag. How much???

You can buy my book, including free instructional DVD, for $49.95, although it's only available on my website, and said website's location is top secret.

-Andrew

"Give a man a CHTMSAA FIT BAGS, and he'll have a great stroke for a day. Teach a man to CHTMSAA FIT BAGS, and he'll have no idea what you're talking about."
 
The problem, Andrew, is that what you write above doesn't sell. Pool players don't like to hear that there is no magic pill, and they actually have to work at a skill to actually have that skill.

So, I think you're onto something, and you may not know it:

[C]ue [H]as [T]o [M]ove [S]wiftly [A]nd [A]ccurately [F]or [I]t [T]o [B]e [A] [G]reat [S]troke

or CHTMSAA FIT BAGS for short. You should trademark the name "CHTMSAA FIT BAGS" and begin your own video series.

Andrew Mannings' CHTMSAA FIT BAGS system. It actually has a nice ring to it!

:p
-Sean

Trouble is, I'm not sure you can pronounce CHTMSAA FIT BAGS without accidentally summoning eldritch gods of chaos whose mere visage can drive men to madness.

-Andrew
 
[...]
"Give a man a CHTMSAA FIT BAGS, and he'll have a great stroke for a day. Teach a man to CHTMSAA FIT BAGS, and he'll have no idea what you're talking about."

LOL! "And that's our mission statement. If you don't know what it is, but you have to have your hands on it, we can sell it to you. But don't ask us to teach you how to do it."

-Sean <-- having a fit bag of laughter
 
You can play the way C.J. describes. But, like he said he can't do, you will never achieve the accuracy doing things backwards. If you are focusing on the follow through, and the direction it needs to go, you will most likely end up steering the cue. Which means, you will not accurately hit the cb. One of the main problems with all amateurs, and a lot of the pros, including, by his own words, C.J.

If you want to learn to hit the cb accurately, forget about the follow through, just let it happen, and focus on the delivery of the cue to the exact spot you want to hit on the cb.

In pool all steps can be performed statically before you shoot by any one ( aim, stance, warm ups, pause, bridge, figure throw, swerve, squirt, angle, the bank aim, kick aim, you name it) except the dynamic move which is the back and forward swing of arm, elbow wrist and how fast. Looking on cb is not going to do it, because you are hitting big target compared to tip one need to change from his/her old hand movement habits to the ideal way like SVB, Ronnie O, Alex P style or any way that guarantees straight back and forward movement of arm / elbow, and not to forget that this is the most critical step in pool at advance level
 
give those that are interested a foundation to build the more advanced information on

I guess the simplest example of what I'm referring to is done by setting up a 30 degree angle with the object ball on the second diamond up (one inch off the side rail).....use a tip of "running english" and vary your follow though....try one inch, two inches, three, four, etc. - notice what influence these different lengths have on the object ball....now try varying the speed of the stroke and do the same test....notice you can get the cue ball to vary at least 4 diamonds in the varying reaction.

This is the basics, and will give those that are interested a foundation to build the more advanced information on.....if you have any questions email me at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com --- my PM box is filling up daily now and it's difficult to keep it available.

Play Well - The TOI Game is the Teacher


Thanks for the insight, CJ. I understand the angle of attack influences the cue ball at the moment of impact. I've posted about this many times before and hoped for some discussion about it.

We all understand the moment of impact is fractions of a second, so can we get past this great tidbit of info and get back to playing the game? Understanding the physics and limiting the game to, "it doesn't matter what you do when you hit the cue ball" is counter productive.

I'd like to hear more about developing the follow through by starting at the beginning of the stroke...even if you don't know what the hell you're talking about! :D

Best,
Mike
 
we see things that we have never noticed before because we recognize what's familiar

Learning pool is a journey and there's many different levels we go though while improving.....NO ONE has completely mastered all the levels except at the unconscious level (when in the zone).....in this state we basically "become what we're doing".

Efren has commented on watching amateur players to learn things, and I do the same thing......what we're learning is how difficult they make the game.

Once we understand the deep levels the game opens up and the mysteries that have been kept hidden suddenly make sense.....we see things that we have never noticed before because we only recognize what we're truly familiar with.

As a result you move from you playing the game, to the game playing you. 'The Game is the Teacher'


Offering a game is nothing more than desperation. It doesn't prove your point one iota. Just understand that every time you scoff at what I have been saying, you are also scoffing at almost all the instructors in this country.
 
It's from 'Memoirs of CJ Wiley'

What book did you copy and paste that from? :wink:

It's from 'Memoirs of CJ Wiley' - If I was going to "copy and paste" it would be this one:



Wiley remembers how easily the action flowed right after the release of 1986’s The Color of Money. Thanks to that film, Wiley clipped off an entire bar in Pittsburgh over the course of an evening. He began with the owner, a pigeon who knew the flick by heart. He led Wiley up to hid private pool table on the second floor, saying, “It’s just like the movie. You saw the movie, right?” The Owner couldn't hit the floor with his hat.

“After I beat him out of a few hundred, stalling to keep the games close, he quits and has me play everybody else in the building: the bartender, the cook, the dishwasher, five locals and finally the best player in town. By night’s end, I had the owner stuck around 65 hundred. ‘You know kid, you played a lot better at the end than you did at the beginning.’ He says to me. I looked him square in the eyes and said, ‘Well, you saw the movie right?’”

Wiley was part of an elite underground group called “road players,” traveling pool assassins hiding below the radar y never showing their faces in tournaments. “There were only around 30 of us,” says Wiley, who’s run a dozen racks without missing and won as much as $20,000 in a single night. “I’m talking about the solid ones, the guys who consistently got the cash.” These players were known through the grapevine simply by their nicknames: Frisco Jack and One-Eyed Rd, Water-dog and Shaft Man, Big John and The Faceless Man. “We knew each other, and there was a camaraderie. We even worked together taking off scores, calling each other with steers into good games.

“In the pool world, the road player is the most respected, way more than the tournament winners. We’re not just great players. We’re a special bread. We have nerves strong enough to hold up for the big money. We have something extra—a killer instinct, an ice-cold hearts.” He pauses, then, unflinchingly, adds: “I had both in abundance.”

Wake-up Call

High-stakes pool hustling is a dangerous game. Hustlers get hurt. Wiley has been clocked with a pair of roundhouses, been slipped a Mickey at least three times and was robbed at gunpoint twice. “Both times was after I won a lot of money,” he says. “Both, I’m convinced, were setups.” It didn't stop him, though. Wiley accepted those things as occupational hazards. “I was on an adventure, and I never saw a great adventure movie without the star being chased, shot at and running for his life.”

The first time Wiley stared down the barrel of a gun while hustling, he was 18. It was 3 a.m. in a seedy section of Minneapolis, near Gentleman Jim’s, a 24-hour poolroom well-known for its big money action. Wiley had scored around seven grand and was riding a rush of adrenaline. The gunman stuck his .45 so hard underneath Wiley’s chin it rose the Texan onto his toes. The mugger made off with only $400, speeding off in a car. “luckily,” Wiley says, “my partner was always the one who carried most of the money.”

Wiley was shaken but not stirred. “It had no lasting effect,” he says. “it was just a wake-up call.” In fact, he was robber again a year later, in Albemarle, North Carolina, at some bootleg liquor joint with a backroom pool table by a guy with a shotgun who wore a nylon stocking over his head. He still felt bulletproof, though he finally learned to leave town in a hurry after big wins.

Rack ‘em

Born and raised in Green City, Missouri, a desperately small, poor cattle town 136 miles from Kansas City, Wiley started shooting stick at seven, standing on a wooden soda case to reach the table. Four years later he was the best player in town; by 15 he was outgunning guys twice his age for $20 a game. He found his nirvana in his senior year in high school. During Christmas break, he and two experienced partners embarked on a road trip, working spots all over Oklahoma and Kansas. The trio took in $16,000 in just 40 days. Wiley never sat though another class again.

From ages 18 to 26 Wiley lived constantly on the move. His Sky-Pager would go off in the middle of the night, alerting him to action. In 1987, Wiley relocated to Dallas to be centrally located between both coasts. He’d plan trips on his motor home based on trips from an underground network of informants. “I would take a map, circle spots I wanted to hit and connect them as strategically as I would if I were running a rack of balls,” he says. All the inside info was compiled in a “spot book,” a hustler’s little black book containing addresses of action joints, names of gambling players, how well they played, what games they liked and how much they liked to bet.

He assumed aliases: Mike from Indiana, Chris from Missouri or Butch from Tennessee. “I once went to a spot where the locals were talking about all three of my aliases and arguing which one was the best player.” He posed as a college student, a computer salesman, even a drug dealer. He used fake IDs and phony glasses. (“a guy with glasses can always get played.”) He blended with locals by mimicking their behavior, dress and accents, even occasionally stealing license plates. He did whatever it took to get the game. “There were only three guys in the country I wouldn't play,” he says, “and I knew who those guys were.”

He also had a favorite line that never failed to lure ‘em in. Wiley would simply smile and say, “I’m very good at pool—is anyone here as good as me?” He found it was better to be cocky than pretend to be a bad player and what could guys say when he beat them? He’d warned them he was good.

Like most hustlers, Wiley traveled with a partner. This guy held most if the cash, watched his back and helped the scam. “Sometimes, I’d act like the stake-horse and my partner would be the player,” he says. “My partners could play, though not as well as I could. He’d beat a guy until he quit, then the guy would say to me, ‘I can’t beat him, but I’ll play you.’ They assumed that I couldn't play since I was staking the money. They didn't realize they’d stepped into a bigger trap.”

Eight ball in the corner pocket

Wiley didn’t just roll chumps. “My forte was beating players who were supposedly unbeatable on their home tables. Even if they played as well as I did, I’d simply outlast them.” He built a rep for intimidating opponents, slamming balls into pockets with a popping stroke, making long-range shots as if they were mere tap-ins and shooting so fast he ran racks in minutes. He accompanied this with a mean game face derived from biting the inside of his mouth until he bled. “With good players, I didn't just want to beat them, I wanted to crush them,” he says. “I got off on seeing their knees buckle, seeing fear in their eyes.”

Wiley’s reputation began to precede him, and the money dried up. He retired from hustling for good and went legit, joining the pros in 1991. Four years later, frustrated with the piddling prize money, he quit that, too, but not before being ranked as high as fourth in the world. “What I made in a year on the pro tour, I used to make in one night hustling.”

Now more than a decade removed from his poolroom cons, Wiley is still hustling—but in the business world. Today, he owns a 24-hour poolroom and a $3.5 million sports bar. He lives in a three-bedroom home in the swanky suburb of Lake Highlands, outside Dallas.

Does he ever miss the pool-hustling life? “At the time, I loved everything about the life, especially the freedom and being able to travel around the country,” Wiley says. “When I look back on it now, it sickens me. I was a pure predator. I’d hate to ever go back to that, even though I was a winner.”
 
What book did you copy and paste that from? :wink:

Many different levels? How much is each level?

CJ = Copy Jargon. There are many hundreds of levels in Copy Jargon Saga(TM), many of which make it to bumper stickers and fortune cookie "fortunes."
 
You must be psychic or .....

We've all seen this one before........a couple times, I think.

How could you possibly know what "we've all" seen?

You must be psychic or something......hmmmm
HowPsychicAreYouGraphic.jpg
 
your ability to learn new techniques

What book did you copy and paste that from? :wink:

Many different levels? How much is each level?

It depends on experience, talent and your ability to learn new techniques.

levels-of-expertise.png
 
I guess the simplest example of what I'm referring to is done by setting up a 30 degree angle with the object ball on the second diamond up (one inch off the side rail).....use a tip of "running english" and vary your follow though....try one inch, two inches, three, four, etc. - notice what influence these different lengths have on the object ball....now try varying the speed of the stroke and do the same test....notice you can get the cue ball to vary at least 4 diamonds in the varying reaction.

I played around a bit with this info and from experience, I understood what was going to happen. The part I had to think about was a consistent speed to not affect the outcomes.

I realized I never tried to look at my follow through before. It's probably not something I would want to try to control consciously. What I think would be an asset to my game is to show my subconscious what the follow through does for my stroke in varying degrees.

By setting up examples of follow through strokes, my pool brain can pick up on what works for me. Too short and I get erratic results. Too long and I steer and get a sloppy stroke with no added benefit. Armed with this learning tool, my mind may see what is needed for follow through and make it happen more consistently. Who knew? :grin-square:

Best,
Mike
 
they should be similar, like a mirror reflection

At your level you wouldn't want to watch your follow through....I don't unless calibrating something unusual in practice.

However, to teach the technique you have to "bring conscious attention to a subconscious activity"......this is tricky and I'm one of the few that attempts it. You can see by the reaction of a few people that it's hitting deep in their subconscious. ;)

Writing about these things is like trying to describe the ocean....you won't truly understand unless you're willing to stick your toe in it....and experience it for one's self.

One thing I would suggest is to create a "referential index" between your backswing and follow through......they should be similar, like a mirror reflection. I see many beginner and even moderately advanced players using too long of a follow through.....this is very disadvantageous because it inadvertently maximizes "after contact spin," and this leads to control issues.




I played around a bit with this info and from experience, I understood what was going to happen. The part I had to think about was a consistent speed to not affect the outcomes.

I realized I never tried to look at my follow through before. It's probably not something I would want to try to control consciously. What I think would be an asset to my game is to show my subconscious what the follow through does for my stroke in varying degrees.

By setting up examples of follow through strokes, my pool brain can pick up on what works for me. Too short and I get erratic results. Too long and I steer and get a sloppy stroke with no added benefit. Armed with this learning tool, my mind may see what is needed for follow through and make it happen more consistently. Who knew? :grin-square:

Best,
Mike
 
At your level you wouldn't want to watch your follow through....I don't unless calibrating something unusual in practice.

However, to teach the technique you have to "bring conscious attention to a subconscious activity"......this is tricky and I'm one of the few that attempts it. You can see by the reaction of a few people that it's hitting deep in their subconscious. ;)

Writing about these things is like trying to describe the ocean....you won't truly understand unless you're willing to stick your toe in it....and experience it for one's self.

One thing I would suggest is to create a "referential index" between your backswing and follow through......they should be similar, like a mirror reflection. I see many beginner and even moderately advanced players using too long of a follow through.....this is very disadvantageous because it inadvertently maximizes "after contact spin," and this leads to control issues.

Since I brought attention to it, I'll make a mental note tonight when I play. I'll see if I notice my pool brain telling me I went too long or poked at the ball. It'll know, but I won't unless it tells me. Then, I'll go back to autopilot. :cool:

Best,
Mike
 
"We are a special bread."

Chuckled at that one.

I'm resisting cheap shots about yeast infections. It's hard, but I can resist because I'm so awesome.

:)
 
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