Great mechanics but horrible shot making, can it happen?

[Sloppy Pockets]

Sometimes I feel like I'm playing tag, trying to help players.

Your right on this one.

Get the alignment right and you can see what is going on.

The stance gets a little more in line.
The stroke gets a little bit more in line.
The shot even looks better before you shoot it.

Many shots we miss didn't look right when we get down and aim.

Your on the right track now............

I think there's a synergistic effect that starts to occur as you get closer to the meat of the matter. It is no different than many other activities that I have done in my life. The better you get in one area, the better you are able to get in all areas.

As far as shooting shots that you feel are going to miss, I used to play a game with myself that I'll call "undercut/overcut". Real simple rules. You feel like the shot is off but you shoot it anyway. But... first you try to predict which way it will be off, to help in the learning process (of course, it doesn't help if it actually goes in Lol).

Now that I understand how to get my eyes right, though, I just haven't been having that "it don't look right" feeling. It's not that I stopped missing, but I certainly have almost stopped missing those easy shots that I often pounded into the rails. And, yes, my stance feels more natural, my stroke feels better, the CB ends up where I want it more often, and I do believe I am finally ready to jump up to the next plateau.

Yeah, there's always another plateau waiting for you, no matter how good you get at anything.

 

[genomachino]

The longer we do it the better it gets......

I think there's a synergistic effect that starts to occur as you get closer to the meat of the matter. It is no different than many other activities that I have done in my life. The better you get in one area, the better you are able to get in all areas.

As far as shooting shots that you feel are going to miss, I used to play a game with myself that I'll call "undercut/overcut". Real simple rules. You feel like the shot is off but you shoot it anyway. But... first you try to predict which way it will be off, to help in the learning process (of course, it doesn't help if it actually goes in Lol).

Now that I understand how to get my eyes right, though, I just haven't been having that "it don't look right" feeling. It's not that I stopped missing, but I certainly have almost stopped missing those easy shots that I often pounded into the rails. And, yes, my stance feels more natural, my stroke feels better, the CB ends up where I want it more often, and I do believe I am finally ready to jump up to the next plateau.

Yeah, there's always another plateau waiting for you, no matter how good you get at anything.

Once we get the dominant eye in that most correct position we can really get results from our practice.

Before most of the practice time is absorbed by trying to allow the brain to get the dominant eye there from repetition.

Knowing how to get there manually, now you can work on other things and will be able to actually see why the shot is off instead of just wondering.

There are so many other things to work on when we are trying to improve.

Crossing this off right from the get is so huge.

And the nice thing is once this is applied you can see it with your own eyes that it work. It is just the way it is.

Good Job...........

 

[sfleinen]

Take Ronnie O'Sullivan and place him on the incorrect shot line and he will miss the shot using PERFECT mechanics.

The more people think like this, the more the never-ending parade of band-aids walk out of the marketing machine. That includes the flip-side of the coin, "place so-and-so bad-fundamentaled player on the correct shot line, and he somehow makes the shot."

Truth is, other cue sports -- like snooker -- place the horse before the cart. You have to have a solid, repeatable foundation, which includes not only dead-nuts-straight-cueing, but putting that dead-nuts-straight-cueing on the correct shot line. When you have a repeatably-dead-nuts-straight stroke, it's easier to see how you're delivering the cue ball in relation to the shot line. It's HUMAN NATURE to digest this information and make the necessary corrections, when you have a solid repeatable foundation that is never in question.

I mean, many folks know that I'm a large-caliber rifle target shooting buff. When scoping-in my rifles, I remove the bolt and bore sight first. No use in even looking through the iron sights or through the scope until you put your eye to the chamber and look through the barrel, to see that the barrel, first, is pointing as accurately at the target as possible. Then, adjust your iron sights or scope to match, and tune-in from there. Finally, re-install the bolt / firing mechanism, and begin your test firing / honing-in.

Most pool players' approach would be completely opposite -- slap that scope onto the barrel with duct tape, and begin test firing immediately, with no idea how accurately that scope is mounted to the barrel. Then, along comes Vince Offer with a new brand of duct tape with precision adhesive, and pool players are all over it. I'm not slamming aiming systems, btw, but rather pool players that live by the "magic elixir" solutions-buying approach to playing better pool, instead of taking an honest-to-goodness look at their fundamentals -- which BY DEFINITION -- includes how to put yourself onto the correct shot line. Fundamentals, by definition, including the bore-sighting steps right out of the chute.

-Sean

 

[JB Cases]

The more people think like this, the more the never-ending parade of band-aids walk out of the marketing machine. That includes the flip-side of the coin, "place so-and-so bad-fundamentaled player on the correct shot line, and he somehow makes the shot."

Truth is, other cue sports -- like snooker -- place the horse before the cart. You have to have a solid, repeatable foundation, which includes not only dead-nuts-straight-cueing, but putting that dead-nuts-straight-cueing on the correct shot line. When you have a repeatably-dead-nuts-straight stroke, it's easier to see how you're delivering the cue ball in relation to the shot line. It's HUMAN NATURE to digest this information and make the necessary corrections, when you have a solid repeatable foundation that is never in question.

I mean, many folks know that I'm a large-caliber rifle target shooting buff. When scoping-in my rifles, I remove the bolt and bore sight first. No use in even looking through the iron sights or through the scope until you put your eye to the chamber and look through the barrel, to see that the barrel, first, is pointing as accurately at the target as possible. Then, adjust your iron sights or scope to match, and tune-in from there. Finally, re-install the bolt / firing mechanism, and begin your test firing / honing-in.

Most pool players' approach would be completely opposite -- slap that scope onto the barrel with duct tape, and begin test firing immediately, with no idea how accurately that scope is mounted to the barrel. Then, along comes Vince Offer with a new brand of duct tape with precision adhesive, and pool players are all over it. I'm not slamming aiming systems, btw, but rather pool players that live by the "magic elixir" solutions-buying approach to playing better pool, instead of taking an honest-to-goodness look at their fundamentals -- which BY DEFINITION -- includes how to put yourself onto the correct shot line. Fundamentals, by definition, including the bore-sighting steps right out of the chute.

-Sean

We will just continue to disagree on this. Most books and videos on pool prior to the past decade gloss over aiming so it didn't appear to be as big a part of fundamentals as you classify it to be for those authors.

The question is whether a person can have a perfect stroke and miss easy shots consistently and the answer is yes.

 

[Maniac]

The question is whether a person can have a perfect stroke and miss easy shots consistently and the answer is yes.

And.....the opposite end of the spectrum asks if a person can have a terrible stroke and make balls consistently...and the answer is yes.

The possibilities here are endless...you can see a wide spectrum of ball-pocketing/non-pocketing skills with or without good stroke fundamentals.

That said...the best of the best (almost) always have a combination of good stroke fundamentals, proper alignment, and some system (be it H.A.M.B. or Pro-One) of aiming.

It's really a moot point.....but carry on by all means!!!

Maniac

 

[sfleinen]

We will just continue to disagree on this.

Understood, and I agree.

Most books and videos on pool prior to the past decade gloss over aiming so it didn't appear to be as big a part of fundamentals as you classify it to be for those authors.

Yup, that's precisely my point -- the old books did not put much focus on aiming, because with solid fundamentals, that aspect more or less fell into place naturally (or at least that was the thinking at the time). The fact that the old books didn't focus on aiming, but nowadays we have this surge of alternative aiming systems, means that something got lost along the way.

The question is whether a person can have a perfect stroke and miss easy shots consistently and the answer is yes.

According to the title of this thread and the situation described by the OP? Sure. But there's also the legitimate follow-up to this question of why this situation could happen. I shared my ideas on how.

-Sean

 

[JB Cases]

Understood, and I agree.



Yup, that's precisely my point -- the old books did not put much focus on aiming, because with solid fundamentals, that aspect more or less fell into place naturally (or at least that was the thinking at the time). The fact that the old books didn't focus on aiming, but nowadays we have this surge of alternative aiming systems, means that something got lost along the way.



According to the title of this thread and the situation described by the OP? Sure. But there's also the legitimate follow-up to this question of why this situation could happen. I shared my ideas on how.

-Sean

I don't think something got lost along the way. I think something was gained in the fact that MORE effort is now being focused on aiming than before.

Aiming was not totally neglected either, there were a few books and of course the oft quoted article from the mid-90s where many pros were asked how they aim with many different answers supplied.