So is there footage of the famous 1990's Challenge of Champions dumping scandal?

It's not difficult to relate to what he was pondering going into the match.

Old Nine Baller said:
So you do have an idea of what B. Hall was thinking or you do not have an idea???

ONB
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I have no idea what Buddy was thinking during the match, and neither does anyone - on the other hand, it's not difficult for me to relate to what he was pondering going into the match. This was one of the most awkward positions to be put in as a professional player.

He knew everyone was going to be scrutinizing him to the extreme because of the side bets on Mike Lebron at 20/1. I still have trouble believing the casino would take many bets without changing these odds.......they are vegas, and basically impossible to "get over on"......sounds odd if nothing else.
 
seven_7days said:
*Lol. Played perfect shape on? He almost scratched in the side like he was trying to do.
But,unfortunately the cue ball went off the titty and he's now forced to dog the 8.
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Buddy was smart,the best way to dump is to scratch,most peeps don't even notice it.But scratching from that angle is tough,you have to hit it perfect.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I have no idea what Buddy was thinking during the match, and neither does anyone - on the other hand, it's not difficult for me to relate to what he was pondering going into the match. This was one of the most awkward positions to be put in as a professional player.

He knew everyone was going to be scrutinizing him to the extreme because of the side bets on Mike Lebron at 20/1. I still have trouble believing the casino would take many bets without changing these odds.......they are vegas, and basically impossible to "get over on"......sounds odd if nothing else.
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So you don't know what he was thinking or you do know what he was thinking?

How could you relate to what he "was pondering" if you didn't know what he was thinking?

How would you know he thought everyone would be "scrutinizing him to the extreme" if you didn't know what he was thinking?

Oh What a Tangled Web We Weave When First We Practice to Deceive.

The "Tangled Web" is the teacher.

ONB
 
Especially on the break, he broke perfectly the last game,

alstl said:
If it was a dump it was poorly done. The 8 ball he dogged he played perfect shape on, he could have dogged shape instead. The following shot he left the opponent jacked up over a ball.

It looks bad but it isn't the obvious dump I assumed when I heard the story originally.
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No, it's certainly not obvious, not by a long shot. There's many, many things Buddy could have done differently if he was trying to lose. Especially on the break, he broke perfectly the last game, and that would never have happened if he was trying not to run out the rack.
 
Old Nine Baller said:
So you don't know what he was thinking or you do know what he was thinking?

How could you relate to what he "was pondering" if you didn't know what he was thinking?

How would you know he thought everyone would be "scrutinizing him to the extreme" if you didn't know what he was thinking?

Oh What a Tangled Web We Weave When First We Practice to Deceive.

The "Tangled Web" is the teacher.

ONB
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How about he can relate because he has been in high stakes pressure situations?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
CJ Wiley said:
No, it's certainly not obvious, not by a long shot. There's many, many things Buddy could have done differently if he was trying to lose. Especially on the break, he broke perfectly the last game, and that would never have happened if he was trying not to run out the rack.
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Let me tell you why, that's because he saw Mike cannot run 3 balls in a row so for him the best solution is to do the work a give up the last 2 or 3 balls, that's the smartest way to dump comparing to a bad break and ugly rack to handle.
How in the world some people still think that there were nothing going on that Buddy Hall didn't dump the match LOL. I can't believe it, I think you knew that he did it but you still want to defend him, then creat a debate to attrach people attention, that's smart too, nothing going on without a debate.
 
JB, Let me first state that I think you're a pretty smart guy, and I was rooting for you in the big match.

That said, if you can't see that COC was a dump, how the hell did you think you could
figure out the right shots to take playing Lou, One-Pocket.

Fundamentals pppfft, we won't even get into that, because frankly your post shot dance moves, were the bomb. They were phat, now if you could just incorporate a little twerking into your routine. Now that would have been worth the price of admission all by it's self.

Why didn't you just flip Lou for the 10K ? By the way did you even realize that Lou lost money in the "Big Match", yea he bet on you ! He was dumping, but couldn't play bad enough. Sorry Lou, I know you didn't want me to let the cat out of the bag, oops.

Not to mention, you could have used that stream time wisely and I don't know maybe
made an aiming video, or something crazy like that.

I'm Out !!!
 
.he had won major titles in finals against the likes of Archer, Varner, Strickland...

HelloBaby- said:
Let me tell you why, that's because he saw Mike cannot run 3 balls in a row so for him the best solution is to do the work a give up the last 2 or 3 balls, that's the smartest way to dump comparing to a bad break and ugly rack to handle.
How in the world some people still think that there were nothing going on that Buddy Hall didn't dump the match LOL. I can't believe it, I think you knew that he did it but you still want to defend him, then creat a debate to attrach people attention, that's smart too, nothing going on without a debate.
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For those of you that don't "real eyes" the caliber of player Mike Lebron was at the time.....he had won major titles in finals against the likes of Johnny Archer, Nick Varner, Earl Strickland, and yes, even Buddy Hall.

Mike Lebrón
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Mike Lebron)


Mike Lebrón at the 2004 US Open Nine-ball Championship
Miguel Benjamin Lebrón-Laboy (born March 31, 1934, Yabucoa, Puerto Rico), best known as Mike Lebrón (sometimes rendered Mike Lebron in the media) is a Puerto Rican professional pool player nicknamed "Spanish Mike".[1]

Lebrón currently lives in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and actively competes at various pocket billiard events.

Contents [hide]
1 Professional career
2 Titles and achievements
3 References
4 External links
Professional career[edit]
Lebrón is the winner of the thirteenth edition of the US Open Nine-ball Championship.[2] Lebrón won the title against Nick Varner in 1988 and is the only Puerto Rican-born professional pool player to win the prestigious title. He is also the oldest pool player to have ever won the US Open Nine-Ball Championship for men at the age of 54 or older.

On February 19, 2006, in his hometown of Yabucoa, Puerto Rico, Lebrón was inducted into the Yabucoa Sports Hall of Fame Pavilion (Pabellón de la Fama del Deporte Yabucoeño). The induction ceremonies took place on June 11, 2006.[3]

Lebrón is a member of the International Pool Tour.[4]

Titles and achievements[edit]
1992 – Glass City Open Champion - Finals against Earl Strickland
1991 – International Challenge of Champions
1990 – Glass City Open Champion - Finals against Johnny Archer
1988 – US Open Nine-ball Championship against Nick Varner
1988 – Pool Hall Open
1986 – Sun Coast Open
References[edit]
Jump up ^ "Player Profile", AzBilliards.com. Retrieved 23 October 2007
Jump up ^ USOpen9ballChampsionships.com. Retrieved 23 October 2007
Jump up ^ FedBillarpr.bravehost.com. Retrieved 23 October 2007
Jump up ^ Player Bio, InternationalPoolTour.com. Retrieved 23 October 2007
 
CJ Wiley said:
No, it's certainly not obvious, not by a long shot. There's many, many things Buddy could have done differently if he was trying to lose. Especially on the break, he broke perfectly the last game, and that would never have happened if he was trying not to run out the rack.
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It takes someone with a huge ego, and probably some agenda to absolutely ignore, and in fact deny, what Jay Helfert has told you. The first rule about getting yourself out of a hole is to stop digging. Buddy's career has a lot of great accomplishments, and it also includes the Challenge of Champions tournament we are discussing. You can't rewrite history, your firetruck is too late.
 
crabbcatjohn said:
Buddy told me today in person you all are FOS and don't know what you are talking about. No dump. So there you are :p

Oh yea, he also wanted to thank CJ and the rest who have defended him.
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please do me a favor?

since he's in a responsive mood - remind Buddy of our conversation in front of the volcano on SUN regarding the "JA/AZB fundraiser $4K" for his "ëxpenses to Vegas" as co-captain....

(to which, i might take this opportunity to add, that JAY HELFERT donated a fully autographed program @ $105 value & shipped @ less than 5 months.)

and let him know that still - after said conversation - neither he, nor Johnny, have to date, said THANK YOU AZBers.


PL <---- i have no beef with the messenger.
.
 
Dump

I don't care who you are if you can't tell the dump was on by this shot then you are ignoring a lot of facts about buddy's game! At 8:12 the 8 9 combo he misses is ridiculous, especially for a guy that gave the world the 8 for all the money they could carry into the pool hall around that time.

http://youtu.be/_y12sL1oR2s

I enjoy listening to all the gambling stories on here about Buddy Hall and others from years past. But there are facts that can't be ignored about the state of pool, due to the actions of a few, men's pool has lost it's stature in the billiard industry, whether it be Earls infamous speech bashing Brunswick tables costing them Brunswicks money, or all the individuals involved with this dump scandal that cost Mens's pool Casino sponsorship money. Or the way that a select few of the elite players act like everybody owes them something, and when good people put their hard earned money out there to help out a pool legend they get shit on by these same people with their hand out.
 
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1) The player's story 2) The onlookers story 3) The Truth

punter said:
It takes someone with a huge ego, and probably some agenda to absolutely ignore, and in fact deny, what Jay Helfert has told you. The first rule about getting yourself out of a hole is to stop digging. Buddy's career has a lot of great accomplishments, and it also includes the Challenge of Champions tournament we are discussing. You can't rewrite history, your firetruck is too late.
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I'm not trying to "re-write" history, but I was there in the meetings concerning this event and was a board member of the PBTA. Matt Braun, Allen Hopkins, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Pay Fleming, Sammy Jones, Jimmy Rempe, and Don Mackey were also there. No billiard magazines or press ever made any accusations, so if there was a "conspiracy" everyone in the pool world/press was involved in the so called cover up.

If you don't like my opinion by all means ignore it, but it is from personally experienced information, and I still can't say with authority anything other than what I know. I'd be surprised if anyone knows the whole truth, there's always three stories to every issue like this 1) The player's story 2) The onlookers story 3) The Truth.....never, and I do mean never are two of these the same.



I neither admit or deny any wrong doing, I simply don't know for sure.....and neither does anyone else, therefore everything is technically hearsay at this point in history.
 
No they were just doing then what you are doing now. LOL


Originally Posted By, C.J.:

" No billiard magazines or press ever made any accusations, so if there was a conspiracy"
everyone in the pool world/press was involved in the so called cover up."

Your logic definitely not the teacher
 
They dropped the ball apparently (or should I say "dogged the ball")

I enjoy listening to all the gambling stories on here about Buddy Hall and others from years past. But there are facts that can't be ignored about the state of pool, due to the actions of a few, men's pool has lost it's stature in the billiard industry, whether it be Earls infamous speech bashing Brunswick tables costing them Brunswicks money, or all the individuals involved with this dump scandal that cost Mens's pool Casino sponsorship money. Or the way that a select few of the elite players act like everybody owes them something, and when good people put their hard earned money out there to help out a pool legend they get shit on by these same people with their hand out.
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[/QUOTE]

The Pro Pool wave came a few years after the 91 'Challenge of Champions' so this event, and Earl's stuff had no baring on what's going on these days. The Pool world started spiraling down around the turn of the century because the business was mismanaged from the top down.....and ESPN was no longer used to promote pool.

This could have been prevented, although I believe it was just not meant to be at this particular time (2000-2013)

ESPN was the key to keeping pool in the public eye, it had very little to do with the Pro Players.....if anything the Industry Leaders were in position to keep pool enjoying the spotlight, and dropped the ball apparently (or should I say "dogged the ball")......again, we can speculate on this for days.
 
PINKLADY said:
please do me a favor?

since he's in a responsive mood - remind Buddy of our conversation in front of the volcano on SUN regarding the "JA/AZB fundraiser $4K" for his "ëxpenses to Vegas" as co-captain....

(to which, i might take this opportunity to add, that JAY HELFERT donated a fully autographed program @ $105 value & shipped @ less than 5 months.)

and let him know that still - after said conversation - neither he, nor Johnny, have to date, said THANK YOU AZBers.


PL <---- i have no beef with the messenger.
.
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Thanks for that. I believe i posted at his request his thank you in one on the Mosconi Buddy hater threads. But then again i'm not his PR man. Just a friend. I wouldn't know how to relate your message to him. I don't know who you are except for your screen name. If you would like to talk to him personally PM me. He's quite receptive to phone calls.


Lots of Buddy hater threads these days, but hey lets kick him while he's down. I personally don't know what happened. I don't think anybody does. And i don't believe in hearsay. What i do wonder is this. With all the hustling books, movies and people in the pool world that idolize pool hustlers. If this did happen why wouldn't they want to take credit for one of the biggest hustles of all time?
I do think its stupid to accuse people publicly of felony criminal acts without sworn statements of one or more of the perpetrators. Especially when you make part of your living working with these individuals.

Besides Buddy, these are the other players in the tournament being accused. Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Allen Hopkins, David Howard, Kim Davenport & Mike LeBron.
 
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At Large would you be so kind as to post the number of pro tournaments that were held in casinos after the 91 COC. And of those how many had money added by the casino?

I am tired of people claiming that this turned off casinos to pool tournaments.



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