Curious why AZ members are too lazy to reply with a "no thanks" on trade deals?

[Scott Lee]

Justin...It's not just the WFS section. I can't count the number of times people don't even respond to a PM. It's polite to at least say "not interested", no matter what the subject, but people just can't seem to take 30 seconds and respond...sometimes even with repeated PM's. Certainly not the etiquette I was taught 50+ years ago, and still use today.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I have been on az for a long time now, and it seems that once an az members loses interest in a trade deal (or is just not interested at all, and then just not reply back), then they will completely cut off all communication with the other az member that they were interested in trading with (not even a short PM that says, "sorry, but I am no longer interested in the trade, or sale").

This happens to me a lot.

Just when I think I am about to have a trade deal confirmed, the az member just stops writing me back (not even a simple PM to tell me that they are not interested, or no longer interested).

Why is it so hard to take 1 minute out of your day to reply to someone to say "no thanks", or "sorry, but I changed my mind and am no longer interested"?

Is it not common courtesy to reply to all of the PM's that you receive (especially if you have recently been communicating with that person about a deal, or if you have dealt with that person in the recent past)?

I think that not replying to a person is just plain rude, but I admit that I have done it a few times myself in the past (but not during communication on a trade deal that has gone back and forth several times over a few days time).

By the way, how long should an AZ member wait for a reply (when they think that they had a trade deal confirmed, but the other person just stops all communication, and does not reply back) before offering the trade to another person?

Does this just happen to me, or is this just the way most people are?

Thanks for your thoughts about this.

 

[sfleinen]

Justin...It's not just the WFS section. I can't count the number of times people don't even respond to a PM. It's polite to at least say "not interested", no matter what the subject, but people just can't seem to take 30 seconds and respond...sometimes even with repeated PM's. Certainly not the etiquette I was taught 50+ years ago, and still use today.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Justin:

Along with Scott's nice update above, one other thing that I'd like to point out -- which I've encountered not only here on AZB, but also in my work life -- is that something happened in the last 10 years in how people respond to a changing decision.

It used to be that it was common decency for someone to reply back with a changed decision to the tune of, e.g., "sorry, but I've changed my mind / something changed where I need to go in a different direction. I do appreciate the opportunity to do business with you, and although we can't do business at the moment, I would look to keep you on the list for future business."

In the last 10 years, that morphed into completely cutting off communications, because people seem afraid of the counter response they think you might pursue, e.g.:

Customer: "Sorry, but I've changed my mind / something changed where I need to go in a different direction. I do appreciate the opportunity to do business with you, and although we can't do business at the moment, I would look to keep you on the list for future business."

You: "But wait, you never gave me a chance to talk to you about all the possibilities I might have at my disposal to e.g. give you a better discount, perhaps present to you an alternate product that might better suit you, etc.!"

Customer: "Hey, I just told you that I had to make an alternate decision, and unfortunately we can't do business."

You: "But how do you know we can't do business -- we never spoke further after our initial talks, and I would like to be granted the opportunity to do so..."​

You see? I think customers that've made a choice against doing business with you are AFRAID (or are just plain not interested in) going down that rabbit hole that you -- the vendor -- want to drag them through because you don't agree with their decision.

Nobody likes to give bad news. In the old days, they would just swallow their pride and do what needs to be done -- i.e. the "sorry, but we chose not to purchase your product... but will keep your name on our list for future opportunities" message.

These days? People don't want to be bothered -- they'd rather just not respond to you, hoping you'd "get the message" and not have to deal with bantering or bartering that you (the vendor) might try to offer.

Hope this makes sense,
-Sean

 

[macguy]

I have been on az for a long time now, and it seems that once an az members loses interest in a trade deal (or is just not interested at all, and then just not reply back), then they will completely cut off all communication with the other az member that they were interested in trading with (not even a short PM that says, "sorry, but I am no longer interested in the trade, or sale").

This happens to me a lot.

Just when I think I am about to have a trade deal confirmed, the az member just stops writing me back (not even a simple PM to tell me that they are not interested, or no longer interested).

Why is it so hard to take 1 minute out of your day to reply to someone to say "no thanks", or "sorry, but I changed my mind and am no longer interested"?

Is it not common courtesy to reply to all of the PM's that you receive (especially if you have recently been communicating with that person about a deal, or if you have dealt with that person in the recent past)?

I think that not replying to a person is just plain rude, but I admit that I have done it a few times myself in the past (but not during communication on a trade deal that has gone back and forth several times over a few days time).

By the way, how long should an AZ member wait for a reply (when they think that they had a trade deal confirmed, but the other person just stops all communication, and does not reply back) before offering the trade to another person?

Does this just happen to me, or is this just the way most people are?

Thanks for your thoughts about this.

Don't just restrict it to AZ members. In general unless money has changed hands there is no deal. As for as trades and offers, many people make an offer and if it is refused they are done. Their lack or response is your answer, they are not interested any more.

 

[cleary]

Just have to say that I agree with you. Many people need a course in etiquette. It has amazed me many times how unprofessional people can be.

That being said, there are some great people on here, and hopefully they more then make up for some of the others.

I've sold things on az and I've got some STUUUUUPID lowball offers and trades, I don't even bother responding to them. Also, sometimes you get bombarded with offers and it's hard to respond to everyone.

 

[sfleinen]

Don't just restrict it to AZ members. In general unless money has changed hands there is no deal. As for as trades and offers, many people make an offer and if it is refused they are done. Their lack or response is your answer, they are not interested any more.

"Not interested anymore" doesn't give a free pass to be rude. (And not responding is considered rude, especially if it was the customer who initiated the relations / communications with the vendor.)

The problem is the "me, me, me" society we live in today, where people can't see two inches past their own nose. Courtesy used to be that if you started to engage a vendor, but then later change your mind, at least extend the courtesy to the vendor (you started the relationship, afterall) with a "sorry, but I changed my mind / apologies we can't do business" closer. It just is standard good interpersonal relations.

-Sean

 

[macguy]

"Not interested anymore" doesn't give a free pass to be rude. (And not responding is considered rude, especially if it was the customer who initiated the relations / communications with the vendor.)

The problem is the "me, me, me" society we live in today, where people can't see two inches past their own nose. Courtesy used to be that if you started to engage a vendor, but then later change your mind, at least extend the courtesy to the vendor (you started the relationship, afterall) with a "sorry, but I changed my mind / apologies we can't do business" closer. It just is standard good interpersonal relations.

-Sean

I think you are reading too much into this. If someone not responding to your email is the biggest problem you have you are lucky. I would not get so freaked out about it. It is utterly meaningless. I hope you are not about to climb a tower with a rifle and teach society a lesson or anything.

 

[sydbarret]

eh, just treat it like some girl you were talking with just stops responding to texts.

 

[sfleinen]

I think you are reading too much into this. If someone not responding to your email is the biggest problem you have you are lucky. I would not get so freaked out about it. It is utterly meaningless. I hope you are not about to climb a tower with a rifle and teach society a lesson or anything.

Nah, it's just the increasing loss of common courtesy that others have mentioned as well. That is what the thread is about.

What's with the rifle/tower comment? Projecting, are we?

 

[poolguy4u]

:grin:



When I list something for sale, I don't even expect to sell the item.

Seems people would rather go to a big box store and pay $50 more

for the exact same item.


Seems I usually get ten people who want the item but no one wants to pay.:thumbup:

My biggest surprise is-------when someone actually pays.:love2:

 

[Scott Lee]

Sean...My pet peeve is people who contact me for lessons, get the info, agree to the terms, and then never respond back when the time comes for the lesson. This is one reason why I now require a deposit upfront on all lessons. If someone puts down a deposit, it's likely that they will follow through. :thumbup: As you know, I have to schedule my trips geographically, so that they past muster financially...especially with $4 gas!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Justin:

Along with Scott's nice update above, one other thing that I'd like to point out -- which I've encountered not only here on AZB, but also in my work life -- is that something happened in the last 10 years in how people respond to a changing decision.

It used to be that it was common decency for someone to reply back with a changed decision to the tune of, e.g., "sorry, but I've changed my mind / something changed where I need to go in a different direction. I do appreciate the opportunity to do business with you, and although we can't do business at the moment, I would look to keep you on the list for future business."

In the last 10 years, that morphed into completely cutting off communications, because people seem afraid of the counter response they think you might pursue, e.g.:

Customer: "Sorry, but I've changed my mind / something changed where I need to go in a different direction. I do appreciate the opportunity to do business with you, and although we can't do business at the moment, I would look to keep you on the list for future business."

You: "But wait, you never gave me a chance to talk to you about all the possibilities I might have at my disposal to e.g. give you a better discount, perhaps present to you an alternate product that might better suit you, etc.!"

Customer: "Hey, I just told you that I had to make an alternate decision, and unfortunately we can't do business."

You: "But how do you know we can't do business -- we never spoke further after our initial talks, and I would like to be granted the opportunity to do so..."​

You see? I think customers that've made a choice against doing business with you are AFRAID (or are just plain not interested in) going down that rabbit hole that you -- the vendor -- want to drag them through because you don't agree with their decision.

Nobody likes to give bad news. In the old days, they would just swallow their pride and do what needs to be done -- i.e. the "sorry, but we chose not to purchase your product... but will keep your name on our list for future opportunities" message.

These days? People don't want to be bothered -- they'd rather just not respond to you, hoping you'd "get the message" and not have to deal with bantering or bartering that you (the vendor) might try to offer.

Hope this makes sense,
-Sean

 

[macguy]

Nah, it's just the increasing loss of common courtesy that others have mentioned as well. That is what the thread is about.

What's with the rifle/tower comment? Projecting, are we?

No, just wondering how someone can be so angry about nothing. I also from the tone of your post thought you were the OP. I see you are not but you I guess identify with the OP and share their anger towards society that you are so critical of. It can even be seen in your choice of tag lines.
I guess I just don't freak out as easily as some others over nothing.

 

[sfleinen]

No, just wondering how someone can be so angry about nothing. I also from the tone of your post thought you were the OP. I see you are not but you I guess identify with the OP and share their anger towards society that you are so critical of. It can even be seen in your choice of tag lines.
I guess I just don't freak out as easily as some others over nothing.

Well, you may have a point re: my sensitivity towards today's society aloofness when it comes to this. As you can see from Scott Lee's responses above, anyone that is in a customer-facing job like we have, is sensitive to this to some degree. (Some more than others, depending on how personally the aloofness affects them.)

I just think people -- mostly the younger generation -- like to "hide" behind the "what's the big deal? It's only an email" excuse. They are completely unaware that there used to be a better way of handling things. But like I said, today's society is "me, me, me" who can't see past their own nose -- completely uncaring of how their interpersonal dealings affect others -- and the situation shows no signs of abatement or even getting better.

When you -- as a society -- have redirected your attention from looking someone in the face and addressing them directly, to instead keeping your head bowed to stare and thumb-twiddle an electronic device that's always in your hands (never or seldom making eye contact with another human being), you know there was a big paradigm shift in societal values. We can't be bothered anymore with good human interactions. Instead, we want to disconnect and quickly move on to keeping our high score in Candy Crush Saga going.

Sure, it can be seen as "no big deal." And then again, it can be seen as "yep, something really changed here, and it's not for the better."
-Sean

 

[macguy]

Well, you may have a point re: my sensitivity towards today's society aloofness when it comes to this. As you can see from Scott Lee's responses above, anyone that is in a customer-facing job like we have, is sensitive to this to some degree. (Some more than others, depending on how personally the aloofness affects them.)

I just think people -- mostly the younger generation -- like to "hide" behind the "what's the big deal? It's only an email" excuse. They are completely unaware that there used to be a better way of handling things. But like I said, today's society is "me, me, me" who can't see past their own nose -- completely uncaring of how their interpersonal dealings affect others -- and the situation shows no signs of abatement or even getting better.

When you -- as a society -- have redirected your attention from looking someone in the face and addressing them directly, to instead keeping your head bowed to stare and thumb-twiddle an electronic device that's always in your hands (never or seldom making eye contact with another human being), you know there was a big paradigm shift in societal values. We can't be bothered anymore with good human interactions. Instead, we want to disconnect and quickly move on to keeping our high score in Candy Crush Saga going.

Sure, it can be seen as "no big deal." And then again, it can be seen as "yep, something really changed here, and it's not for the better."
-Sean

All your observations are completely correct. Unfortunately, the world does not turn just to suit us. It is how we ourselves react that matters. The reason I even responded to this thread was because it was relevant to me as recently as yesterday. I will try to make it short but here is the story.

I am in my shop and I get a phone call from a customer. He had ordered some parts that were sent last week. He had just received them and immediately called me freaking out. I hardly got a chance to say a word as he is telling there are parts missing and he wants a refund.

The package did not include what was advertised. (It is clear packing so you can see inside). He is insisting that he will not pay the cost to return it and wants a complete refund.
You should have heard this guy. Finally I ask him if he opened the package. He said "No, because he didn't want to have a problem returning it".

I told him to open the package and tell me what is missing. He does and it gets real quiet. Finally he says, " I am sorry I must be an idiot, I see everything is here now". What it is is I assemble a few of the parts before packaging them up so they are not rattling around so to him it looked like stuff was missing.

Ok that is the story from yesterday. Here is how I delt with it. Later on that night I sent him an email. It read

Hi Donald
"Thank you for your phone call today. I am sorry about the confusion but I am happy you got your order and all is well. I understand your problem maybe in the future I should change the packaging so it is more obvious what is inside. Thank you again for your business and hope to hear from you again in the future".

Sincerely

I am sure some here would think I was being foolish writing such a kiss a$$ email to someone who was so rude to me but it is how I deal with such things. It is probably the reason I have been in business for myself for over 40 years. In business you don't try to get even, you solve problems. I guess I just don't understand the freak out mentality and how they think they anything can be accomplished that way.
Whether it is a pool game or a business deal, it requires a clear head, not manic knee jerk reactions.

Sorry for such a long post but felt I should explain my thinking.

 

[robsnotes4u]

The way the world turns

It is just the way it is with communications nowadays

 

[DAVE_M]

There is one guy there, that deals here, I am sure he is one of those low ballin flippers... in fact he is on the dealer "secret" list.. lol

Anyways I will say, I do tell everyone you are better off selling than trading with a dealer. This is a fact. There are rarely cues I am into, that I am into so good, I can absorb someone else's bad choice. Unless I have an immediate out for a trade cue, I am not trading at value. People expect lateral trades and with most dealers, that won't happen.

JV

I'm pretty sure I know who you are talking about. :wink:

I usually set my trade value higher than what I'm selling it for. Cash is king, as they say.

 

[sfleinen]

All your observations are completely correct. Unfortunately, the world does not turn just to suit us. It is how we ourselves react that matters. The reason I even responded to this thread was because it was relevant to me as recently as yesterday. I will try to make it short but here is the story.

I am in my shop and I get a phone call from a customer. He had ordered some parts that were sent last week. He had just received them and immediately called me freaking out. I hardly got a chance to say a word as he is telling there are parts missing and he wants a refund.

The package did not include what was advertised. (It is clear packing so you can see inside). He is insisting that he will not pay the cost to return it and wants a complete refund.
You should have heard this guy. Finally I ask him if he opened the package. He said "No, because he didn't want to have a problem returning it".

I told him to open the package and tell me what is missing. He does and it gets real quiet. Finally he says, " I am sorry I must be an idiot, I see everything is here now". What it is is I assemble a few of the parts before packaging them up so they are not rattling around so to him it looked like stuff was missing.

Ok that is the story from yesterday. Here is how I delt with it. Later on that night I sent him an email. It read

Hi Donald
"Thank you for your phone call today. I am sorry about the confusion but I am happy you got your order and all is well. I understand your problem maybe in the future I should change the packaging so it is more obvious what is inside. Thank you again for your business and hope to hear from you again in the future".

Sincerely

I am sure some here would think I was being foolish writing such a kiss a$$ email to someone who was so rude to me but it is how I deal with such things. It is probably the reason I have been in business for myself for over 40 years. In business you don't try to get even, you solve problems. I guess I just don't understand the freak out mentality and how they think they anything can be accomplished that way.
Whether it is a pool game or a business deal, it requires a clear head, not manic knee jerk reactions.

Sorry for such a long post but felt I should explain my thinking.

Thank you for sharing that, and actually, you are demonstrating the old values I'm getting at. I thought the letter was a PERFECT example of following through, and putting closure on something, even though it was from the flip-side of the fence (i.e. vendor-to-customer, instead of vice-versa).

Not sure where the "freak out mentality" is coming from, as that was never an issue tied into what this thread (and what the OP) was talking about. We're talking about what you just demonstrated with your comprehensiveness and follow-through, albeit from the customer side. We're not saying that "going the extra mile" needs to happen from the customer, but at least meet the vendor halfway -- finish the transaction or at least not leave the transaction hanging.

It's not an "all or nothing" thing, right?
-Sean

 

[Bavafongoul]

I have a brand new trade thread up right now....posted it early am this morning.....5/28.

The biggest issue I see is wanting to allowing time to review potential offers.

Unless the cue being offered in trade curls your toes, you want to see what else is available.

Heck, a thread only stays on the first page for a couple of hrs nowadays. You have to give it a chance to be read for maximum results.

I really like my cue for trade.....immaculate, like new condition......but a brand new cue from the same cue-maker arrived 5/23 and I'm in rapturous love with the new one.

So the other cue (just refinished last month by Bob Owen) won't see any more play. Rather than let it sit in the closet, why not get a different cue-maker which is more appealing.

My hope is just to see what's available and whether anything appeals a lot or just a little. Anyway, I think you have to give a thread some time since the # views determines the results.

Matt B.

p.s It's also a great cue I'm looking to trade...check it out in the Cue Gallery......Bob Owen Cue (signed & dtd 4-4-07) with "Flat Ivory Joint".

 

[justinb386]

Thanks for the very good reply. I understand now. But I am not the type of seller that tried to hustle people in to buying from me. After they would reply with a "sorry, but I am not longer interested", then I would leave them alone, and very grateful for their reply. It is just so annoying waiting and waiting around for a reply. It is a much worse feeling when texting, and then all of a sudden the interested buyer cuts off all communication. I was once cussed out and accused of harassment because I sent the person too many texts (describing everything I could think of to describe the item that I was selling). The guy accused me of blowing up his phone with texts, lol, and then threatened to call the cops on me for harassment. I then tried to explain that I was only replying to him, and telling him about the product that I was selling. I figured out that I was only making things worse buy trying to be nice (with what I thought was a friendly reply). So I really do not like texting anymore. I would much rather speak over the phone. That way, I know by the end of the call weather or not the potential buyer will be buying, not buying, or still thinking about it. Sorry for going off subject, but my point I was trying to make, is that when a person that I was communicating with through text does not reply, then I end up texting them a few more times, and making myself crazy waiting for a reply, but never getting one. By the way, how long should I wait for a reply when it comes to texting? I honestly do not want to text any more, but it is just something that most people want to do these days. Anyways, when ever a person writes me to tell me that they no longer want the item (or trade), I never try to hustly them in to changing their minds. I am always grateful for one final reply for closure. I think that only what I call "hustlers" (like car salesman) will do the type of thing that you were talking about. I m not that type of seller/trader.

Justin:

Along with Scott's nice update above, one other thing that I'd like to point out -- which I've encountered not only here on AZB, but also in my work life -- is that something happened in the last 10 years in how people respond to a changing decision.

It used to be that it was common decency for someone to reply back with a changed decision to the tune of, e.g., "sorry, but I've changed my mind / something changed where I need to go in a different direction. I do appreciate the opportunity to do business with you, and although we can't do business at the moment, I would look to keep you on the list for future business."

In the last 10 years, that morphed into completely cutting off communications, because people seem afraid of the counter response they think you might pursue, e.g.:

Customer: "Sorry, but I've changed my mind / something changed where I need to go in a different direction. I do appreciate the opportunity to do business with you, and although we can't do business at the moment, I would look to keep you on the list for future business."

You: "But wait, you never gave me a chance to talk to you about all the possibilities I might have at my disposal to e.g. give you a better discount, perhaps present to you an alternate product that might better suit you, etc.!"

Customer: "Hey, I just told you that I had to make an alternate decision, and unfortunately we can't do business."

You: "But how do you know we can't do business -- we never spoke further after our initial talks, and I would like to be granted the opportunity to do so..."​

You see? I think customers that've made a choice against doing business with you are AFRAID (or are just plain not interested in) going down that rabbit hole that you -- the vendor -- want to drag them through because you don't agree with their decision.

Nobody likes to give bad news. In the old days, they would just swallow their pride and do what needs to be done -- i.e. the "sorry, but we chose not to purchase your product... but will keep your name on our list for future opportunities" message.

These days? People don't want to be bothered -- they'd rather just not respond to you, hoping you'd "get the message" and not have to deal with bantering or bartering that you (the vendor) might try to offer.

Hope this makes sense,
-Sean

 

[justinb386]

It is just annoying when me and another az member have been communicating back and forth over a trade deal, and then right when I think I am about to have the trade deal finalized, the other person just stops all communation. How hard it it to simply right a very short reply saying "sorry, but I changed my mind, and no longer want the item or no longer want the trade deal"? It would give me closure, so that I would know that the peson was no longer interested. I guess that after a few days without a reply, then I know, but a fast reply would have been much better then no reply at all. And this has ever happened to me with guys on here that I have done trade deals with in the past. I will send them a PM with an offer of an item that I have that they might be interested in, and then they just will never reply back to me. They only write to me when I have something that they are interested in, but if I don't, then at least I have the decency to reply back and tell them that I no longer have that item (if that is the case). It is just good to reply (even the shortest possible reply would be nice). Two word reply with "no thanks", or "not interested" would be 100 times better then no reply at all. At least then I know that they received my PM.

No, just wondering how someone can be so angry about nothing. I also from the tone of your post thought you were the OP. I see you are not but you I guess identify with the OP and share their anger towards society that you are so critical of. It can even be seen in your choice of tag lines.
I guess I just don't freak out as easily as some others over nothing.